Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[3 LINK]

This photo shows more detail in natural daylight.



Martyn.

 

[Osgood]

If you didn't intend to create the effect of running surface water alongside the track you've done it anyway - amazing!

 

[3 LINK]

If you didn't intend to create the effect of running surface water alongside the track you've done it anyway - amazing!

Cheers Tony,

Yes it was more of a fluke with my wayward airbrush .

Martyn.

 

[oldravendale]

Well, I go away for a couple of days and look what happens! Fantastic stuff all. I've not worked out quite how I'm going to summarise all this to go with the photo but this is really stimulating and adds so much life to the thread. Too many names to mention individually so thank you all and I'm delighted to see that comments are still coming. Congrats on that representation, Martyn. Well modelled sir! And Roger, like you I've learned a lot here although I remember those bars from standing at the platform ends of many stations. We knew they had something to do with signalling and just called them "treadles". Now I'm getting close to understanding chapter and verse.

Thanks also for the wagon information, Adam and Mike. It's an interesting survivor for the time.

For today a bit of linesiding to start with.

Modified Hall 6987 Shervington Hall on an up Hereford duty at Old Oak Common lineside on 25th March 1962. This was a Stafford Road loco at the time, moving around the region a bit before ending up at Neath from where it was withdrawn in October 1964. (SLS). Both BR Database and Rail UK record the final shed as Cardiff East Dock and withdrawal in September 1964 though. WHTS records it as withdrawn in September 1964 although in store at Neath from September 1964 until December 1964 so it is quite likely that it was withdrawn from Cardiff and then moved to Neath. Rail UK advises it was scrapped at Birds, Bridgend, in November 1964 but LCGB (possibly a more reliable source) records it as being seen intact at Cohen's, Swansea, at the beginning of January 1965 which makes that a more likely date for its destruction.



6023 King Edward II on an up Birkenhead at Old Oak Common lineside on 25th March 1962. This loco has been seen previously in post #958. It had been resident at Old Oak from June 1956 and was withdrawn in June 1962. As a result of a happy accident involving bridge weight testing it ended up at Woodham's. Brief details of 6023's career post withdrawal and leading up to preservation appear in my Barry 1967 and 1968 thread so I'll not repeat here.



Finally a badly underexposed shot of an unknown (but probably Fairburn) LMR 2-6-4T entering Euston on 16th March 1962.



Brian

 

[Crimson Rambler]

@Martin Shaw - thank you for taking the trouble to reply. I'm completely baffled by their use/purpose not least because one appears to be right under the nose of the signalman. Appearing below is a lower resolution scan of a general arrangement drawing of the set-up. The original is far too large a file for posting here, hopefully it is legible enough to see the important details. I had forgotten I had it until just now.



As you observed the tee-section clearance bar rises and falls in an arc just as the lifting bar a contemporary facing point lock even to the extent of being likewise worked from one lever. The small writing on the end of the first timber includes a date of 1918 so the drawing is ten years younger than the photo.


Crimson Rambler

 

[Martin Shaw]

That is a very illuminating drawing however it's far too late in my day to start pontificating, I'll give some thought and post tomorrow.
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Another mixed bag.

Castle 5046 Earl Cawdor on a down Cheltenham train at Old Oak Common lineside on 25th March 1962. It had been based at Stafford Road since 1958 and was withdrawn from there just six months after this photo was taken. (SLS). It went to Swindon for scrapping which was completed in March 1963. (BR Database).



N2 69593 on freight at Harringay West on 16th March 1962. It was a Kings Cross engine at the time but moved to New England in May from where it was withdrawn in September (BR Database) although SLS advises withdrawal from Doncaster on the same date although the SLS also reports it as being at Doncaster withdrawn in 1959 which cannot be right. Rail UK advises withdrawal from New England in September 1962 and WHTS agrees with the withdrawal date and states that the loco was, according to the Railway Observer, at Doncaster in May 1963. However Rail UK advises it was scrapped at Doncaster Works in March 1963.





Princess Coronation 46233 Duchess of Sutherland reversing out of Euston on 27th March 1962. It was an Edge Hill engine in 1962 and was withdrawn in February 1964. It was, however, an escapee from the cutter's torch and survives in preservation.




Brian

 

[mickoo]

Princess Coronation 46233 Duchess of Sutherland reversing out of Euston on 27th March 1962. It was an Edge Hill engine in 1962 and was withdrawn in February 1964. It was, however, an escapee from the cutter's torch and survives in preservation.


View attachment 174697

Brian

Banking empty stock out of Euston, there were several ECS sidings on Camden bank, the express engine will help shunt the stock up to there then cut off and head light engine to Camden for servicing.

At this time Euston still had a arrival and departure platforms, 1-4 were arrivals, can't recall without looking at the diagrams which were departures but they were over to the left so this is not a departing train as far as I'm aware.

Going back to the Royal Scot ECS move earlier and the coal, the engine could have been put on at Birmingham on a cross country service, maybe even Coventry so coal use would have been light.

There was a turn table at Euston over in the corner behind the signal gantry seen in the last photo, it was certainly big enough for a Royal Scot but don't think it was big enough for the Pacific's.

 

[LarryG]

Mmmm.... Castle 5046 Earl Cawdor photographed on my 20th birthday. With that off my chest...., also in the picture of 46233 Duchess of Sutherland is one of the rare LMS D2100 Full Brakes that were 57' long instead of the usual 50'. They were built in 1944 on secondhand underframes, no doubt recovered from wartime casualties.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Mick, for the description of the train movements at Euston. I remember Camden Shed very well - it was really cramped but it's good to see that small parts of it survive - in fact one section has been included in a very recent construction. Despite my many visits to Euston I don't remember the carriage sidings, though. Just goes to show how unobservant I was.

Larry - you have a (very few) years on me but the late '50s were a good time for steam, even in to the early '60s. Things went down hill from there at a rate of knots, though. Thanks for the info on that Full Brake which I'd certainly not have recognised otherwise. The reference is now safely ensconced in the info vault.

Here's Princess Coronation 46228 Duchess of Rutland on an up express at the now entirely changed Willesden Junction Station on 27th March 1962. It was a Crewe North engine, withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It then went to Cashmore's at Great Bridge where it was broken up in December. (BR Database).



A Fairburn 2-6-4T on a milk train from Kensington at Old Oak Common on 27th March 1962.



King Class 6026 King John on the up Cambrian Coast Express at Old Oak Common on 27th March 1962. The loco has a particular significance for me as it hauled a friend and me on our first trip to Swindon from Paddington in 1958. It was an Old Oak Common engine withdrawn in September 1962, (SLS) thence to Swindon Works where it was scrapped by the end of 1963. (BR Database).



Here it is again later the same day, backing on to Old Oak Shed and still carrying the Cambrian Coast Express headboard. It still seems to have a respectable amount of coal in the tender.



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

I have had 36 hours to consider the diagram posted by Crimson Rambler. The how is easy enough, the why is I suspect lost in the mist. THe drive rod operates on the bar which in it's turn drives the stretcher bar and so alters the lie of the points. This obviously prevents the points being operated if a train is still within x (say 10 from the photo) feet of the switches. The only thing I can think of is something to do with loose coupled trains and the couplings stretching out backwards and fouling the points after they have been seen cleared. Does that sound at all plausible? I'll try another contact who may be able to offer further.
Regards
Martin

 

[Crimson Rambler]

@Martin Shaw - Many thanks for the reply - your suggestion does sound very possible. Based on the drawing the clearance bar effectively stops slick signalmen from changing the points after the engine has stoped but not the wagons. Perhaps the bars were fitted should the line be on a gradient falling towards the points? When wagons are being shunted they might not have a guard's van on the end. Then after the engine has stopped/slowed the wagons would roll backwards - a raft of twenty wagons for example would stretch about ten feet after coming to rest. The driver would have to allow for this when decing where to stop his engine.


Crimson Rambler

 

[Roger Pound]

The picture of the Fairburn 2-6-4T on a milk train at Kensington made me recall that it was most rare to see one of these locomotives, or a more common Fowler or Stanier 2-6-4T, on any type of fast freight work when I was a young train-spotter in the Leicester area. This was just post-war 1940's onward when the class was new. The LMS 4P 2-6-4T's of all designs that were allocated to relevant sheds in the region seemed confined to passenger duties on local and mid-distance services. However, the transfer of certain members of this type to the former GC in it's last years when it was taken in to the Midland Region did see them used on goods work of which there is photographic evidence in 'Great Central Twilight' by Colin Walker.

Thank you once more, Brian, for reviving old memories of happy days now long gone.

Roger

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Finally a badly underexposed shot of an unknown (but probably Fairburn) LMR 2-6-4T entering Euston on 16th March 1962.

I like the warning sign at the end of the platform.... they must have obviously done so for this to be erected.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Martin and Crimson Rambler for further and better particulars. It's expanding our knowledge for sure.

Roger - the Fairburn 2-6-4 tanks became commonplace on the GCR, at least at the London end, once the LMR had taken over. It saw the end of the L1s on local trains for sure. In fact the Fairburns used to operate the Met Line trains from Rickmansworth to Aylesbury as well as the local GCR services - I was on the very last Met steam hauled train which was hauled by one of the Fairburns.

Dave - I'd not noticed that sign and was not aware of it at Euston. Similar signs were certainly on the platform ends at Waterloo - in fact they advised that train spotters were not welcome. On the other hand we were never so discouraged at Kings Cross.

"Tanner-oner" 6151 taking empty stock over the flyover at Old Oak Common on 27th March 1962. This had been a long time resident of Old Oak Common but in July moved all the way to Carmarthen, ending up at Pontypool Rad where it was withdrawn in November 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Swindon Works in February 1964. (Rail UK).


Britannia 70036 Boadicea on a Cleethorpes arrival at Kings Cross on 25th March 1962. It belonged to Immingham at the time, confirmed by the shed plate. The final shed was Carlisle Kingmoor and it was withdrawn from there in October 1966 (SLS), going to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap at Wishaw where it was broken up in January 1967. (BR Database).



An atmospheric shot of Princess Class 46209 Princess Beatrice awaiting right away on the 4.35 Wolverhampton train at Euston on 25th March 1962. It was a Camden engine - in fact Camden was it's final shed - and was withdrawn from there only six months later. (SLS). It ended up at Crewe and was scrapped in November.



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I'd not noticed that sign and was not aware of it at Euston. Similar signs were certainly on the platform ends at Waterloo - in fact they advised that train spotters were not welcome. On the other hand we were never so discouraged at Kings Cross.

May well be due to both Euston and Waterloo (plus the other Southern Region termini) respectively having 4th and 3rd rail electrification.

 

[mickoo]

Thank you, Mick, for the description of the train movements at Euston. I remember Camden Shed very well - it was really cramped but it's good to see that small parts of it survive - in fact one section has been included in a very recent construction. Despite my many visits to Euston I don't remember the carriage sidings, though. Just goes to show how unobservant I was.

There were two carriage sheds, a small one on the up side further up the bank, you used to see the odd electric loco tucked in there as you went past.



Note the dive under from up to down sides, ECS would back out of Euston from the up arrival side on the right and under the dive under, the express engine would cut off and draw forward, the pilot would push the ECS into the up carriage shed (below) on the left. Express engine is then released and travels light engine to Camden. I'm not sure what was stored in the small up shed, possibly express engines propelled the stock directly back up to here and then cut off for Camden, though the shed never looked long enough for a full train?

The bigger (main) one was on the down side, I dimly recall that parcel stock was stored here as well. Euston had it's share of parcels traffic over on the west side, even in the new station there were three Parcel roads (18-20) with no public access; often there was a class 25 out in the throat to shunt stock.



Crop from Britain From Above and their Copyright.

 

[oldravendale]

Dave - I guess that's a possible reason. At the time I simply considered them to be anti-train spotters. Not that it actually made any difference, of course. In that respect, when you consider some of the positions Tim used for his photos it's quite remarkable that he was never prosecuted! Apart from the few organised rail tours he went on he never had an official pass for sheds or works. (Mind you, neither did I).

Mick. Once again some fantastic info there. In fact I remember the carriage shed on the left of the line in to Euston and they were used until the early 2000s for storing electric units which later moved to the land on the right. The smaller 4-road? shed on the top right of the Britain from Above photo was, as far as I remember, used for parcels in the 1980s and 90's although I believe is no longer rail connected. I travelled in to town only a week ago but didn't look out of the correct window!

An unidentified pannier tank taking empty stock to the flyover at Old Oak Common with another loco, Modified Hall 6998 seen in the next photo, coming in the opposite direction on 27th March 1962.


Castle 5045 Earl of Dudley on a down Banbury train with Modified Hall 6998 Burton Agnes Hall in the background at Old Oak Common on 27th March 1962 with only six months service to go. 5045 had been a long term resident of Stafford Road. It was withdrawn from there in September 1962. (BR Database and SLS). It went to Cox & Danks at Oldbury where it was scrapped in the same month. (BR Database). 6998 went directly in to preservation from service. At the time of the photo it was an Old Oak engine but ended up at Oxford from where it was withdrawn in January 1966. (SLS).


Another Castle 7033 Hartlebury Castle on an up express at Old Oak Common on 27th March 1962 although the direction of the steam and the crew man in the cab suggest it may be backing up, perhaps in to the carriage sidings. This was another Old Oak engine being withdrawn in February 1963. (SLS). It was disposed of at Cashmore's, Great Bridge, in June the following year. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Two shots of 15XX Class 1507 on empty stock at Old Oak Common on 27th March 1962. It had been at Old Oak since 1960 and was withdrawn from there at the end of November 1963. (SLS). It was dispatched to T W Ward at Briton Ferry where it was scrapped by the end of May 1964.





Castle 5018 St Mawes Castle on a down express at Old Oak Common on 27th March 1962. It was a Reading engine, withdrawn in March 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohens, Kettering, in November the same year.



Another 15xx 0-6-0PT 1504 attacking the foot of the flyover with empty stock at Old Oak Common on 27th March 1962. Another Old Oak engine it was withdrawn in May 1963. (SLS). It also went to T W Ward at Briton Ferry where it met its end in May 1964.



Brian

 

[Osgood]

Hitting a traffic light is just plain careless