Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Standard Class 4 2-6-4T 80154 on a local from Tunbridge Wells in the bay platform at Tonbridge Station on 10th June 1961. The SLS allocations here are broadly in agreement with BR Database and rather more believable. New it was allocated to Brighton in March 1957, then Feltham in July 1963 and Nine Elms in November 1964 where it was withdrawn in April 1967. BR Database further reports that it went to Buttigiegs, Newport where it was scrapped in August 1967.

img2643 TM Neg Strip 31 80154 local from Tunbridge Wells in bay platform Tonbridge Station 10 ...jpg

As @Ressaldar confirms the headcode indicates Brighton to Tonbridge via Eridge, Tunbridge Wells West and Tunbridge Wells.

Edit - see next post.


H Class 0-4-4T 31305 in Tonbridge Station on 10th June 1961. By October 1955 it was allocated to Bricklayers Arms, so a long way from home here. It went to Stewarts Lane in June 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following November. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in July 1964. (BR Database).

img2644 TM Neg Strip 31 31305  Tonbridge Station 10 Jun 61 copyright Final.jpg

Headcode is Tonbridge and Maidstone West (via Paddock Wood and Wateringbury).
 
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Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
many thanks for the Tonbridge photographs, they bring back many pleasant memories. However, I am confused with the headcode on the BR Class 4MT tank as it is for Tonbridge to Brighton via Eridge and then presumably Tunbridge Wells, which ties in with your caption. I wonder what it is doing in Platform 4 as the access to that platform is from Sevenoaks or Redhill and therefore no direct access from the Tunbridge Wells direction. The C class 31690 is in Platform 1 which with Platform 2 are the platforms from Tunbridge Wells.

Unless it's a train from London Bridge (Charing Cross, Cannon Street or Holborn) which has been terminated at Tonbridge. The stock appears to be Hastings 8' restriction 0 stock as there is no apparent tumblehome to be Eastern Section 8'6'' restriction 1 stock. This headcode is also London Bridge or Bricklayers' Arms and Addiscombe Hastings via Mid Kent line, Oxted, Crowhurst Junc and Tonbridge.

Edit - I've done a bit more digging and I think this train came from Reading and it's headcode changed at Redhill. During the 1960s coach sets nos 180-189 were predominantly allocated to the Reading-Tonridge route and I have come across a photo of a Br Std 4MT tank on a Reading-Tonbridge train at Redhill showing this headcode. https://davidheyscollection-static.myshopblocks.com/images/cm/f45e2764c7df08857705bd466af03b9d.jpg The train would have reversed at Redhill to continue to Tonbridge.

Its the last photo before Gallery Three - alas there's a lot of scrolling David Heys steam diesel photo collection - 38 - BR SOUTHERN REGION - 9
 
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Includes German Railways 1974

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
More fantastic stuff, chaps, so thank you all. It seems that almost all these photos attract new and better information which makes the storing of it an additional task but a very pleasant one.

Yorkshire Dave. Many thanks for the additional stuff about half day closing and the bus timetables. These add significant background to the information we already have so a great diversion. Keep 'em coming! Also the info on the C. I didn't know about it's antecedents despite my interest in things Southern so another item to add to the armoury. Then such a great amount of stuff about the headcode and likely route of the train in the bay. All safely gathered in.:)

Mike - thank you for kicking off the discussion about the train hauled by the 2-6-4T. It is entirely possible that Tim's notes are in need of correction as we know.

Martin. Thanks for yours about Hull and further info about the C. I think I can explain the sale for scrap from Salisbury - in the run down of Southern steam Salisbury became a concentration point for storage of locos for scrap and I'd put money on that being the reason the loco was sold on from there.

There seems to be a bit of interest in this neck of the Southern so some will be pleased to know that we have quite a few of these to come. I'll try to add some German photos too as long as time doesn't run out on me.

A rather blurred view from the train entering Tonbridge Station on 10th June 1961.

img2645 TM Neg Strip 31 View from train entering Tonbridge Station Jun 61 copyright Final.jpg

Standard Class 4 80066 on a Tonbridge to Maidstone East train at Paddock Wood Station on 10th June 1961. By May 1961 the loco was allocated to Tonbridge, moving to Eastleigh in June 1962 where it was withdrawn in June 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped at Birds, Morriston, in October the same year. (BR Database).

img2646 TM Neg Strip 31 80066 Tonbridge-Maidstone East Paddock Wood Station 10 Jun 61 copyrigh...jpg

An unidentified Rebuilt West Country or Battle of Britain on a down express at Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. There's what looks like brand new electric stock lurking in the platform next door.

Edit. Possibly West Country 34025 Whimple. It had been allocated to Bricklayers Arms in June 1959 and moved to Eastleigh in May 1961 which may suggest this would not be on the Kent Coast line. However, it then went to Bournemouth in October 1965 where it was withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). It was disposed of at Cashmore's, Newport, in March 1968. (BR Database).


img2647 TM Neg Strip 31 Unknown Rebuilt WC or BB down express Paddock Wood 10 Jun 61 copyright...jpg

Two here in the Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 series. I can't identify the nearer of the two locos but the further one is 043 475-3. I believe these are both oil burners so the shed is probably Rheine.


img4130 TM Furthest loco is 043 475-3 Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

img4129 TM Furthest loco is 043 475-3 Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974. I believe this is a continuation of the three photos in post #3094 - img 4116 - 4118 - probably hauled by an 043 at Emden.

img4131 TM Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

img4132 TM Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

Brian
 
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Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
Hi Brian,

again, thanks for posting the Tonbridge view - it shows the line branching off to High Brooms and Tunbridge Wells West with the MPD (74D) in the forks of the two 'main lines'. Granny and Grandad lived in Vale Road which is directly off to the left behind the train that we are travelling on and the large goods shed and yard, unfortunately, there was a very high brick wall between the yard and Vale Road and that coupled with the fact that the cottages were set well back from the road meant that any view of the railway was impossible - especially for a young lad not yet ten!

kind regards

Mike
 

michael080

Western Thunderer
it looks like the tender has a wooden extension to increase the coal capacity. If it would be a oil tank, it would go all along the coal bunker.

044 375 in this post shows a similar pile. In fact, it could be the same engine, it shows the same color pattern at the tube below the deflector.
 
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Osgood

Western Thunderer
Almost looks like we're looking at the underside of the bough of a tree - and note the white window frame showing through.
Broken off and hitching a ride maybe?
Tender.jpg
 

Genghis

Western Thunderer
it looks like the tender has a wooden extension to increase the coal capacity. If it would be a oil tank, it would go all along the coal bunker.

044 375 in this post shows a similar pile. In fact, it could be the same engine, it shows the same color pattern at the tube below the deflector.
And the smokebox door numberplate is similarly obscured.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
An unidentified Rebuilt West Country or Battle of Britain on a down express at Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. There's what looks like brand new electric stock lurking in the platform next door.

img2647 TM Neg Strip 31 Unknown Rebuilt WC or BB down express Paddock Wood 10 Jun 61 copyright...jpg

Headcode is Victoria or Holborn and Folkestone or Dover via Orpington Loop, Tonbridge and Ashford.

The BR built EMUs visible in the two photos could be either 4-EPB, 4-EPB, 2-SAP or 2-HAP units. The numbering pattern of which can be barely made out in the photo of the 4MT 2-6-4T rules out 4-EPB, 2-EPB and 2-SAP units and we are left with the 2-HAP units on which I would place my money.

The 2-HAP in the photos are from a batch built in 1961 (phase 2, 3rd batch) for the Kent Coast electrification and would have therefore been recently delivered.

Furthermore, I would say these set of Southern Region photos around Tonbridge and Paddock Wood (posts #3,116 and #3,123 taken around June 1961) are relatively significant as they show the last vestiges of steam hauled trains on these routes before the services were turned over to full electric working later in the year. Together with the dieselisation of the Reading-Redhill-Tonbridge services. I have a number of my dad's photos taken around Sittingbourne and Folkestone during this 1959-61 transition of Southern Region steam to electric operation.
 
Includes German Railways 1974

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Mike - that's a lovely geographical memory.

Dave. I'd not noticed the "coal". I guess the tender shows whether it is actually a coal burner or, as Tony has suggested, a tree either in the background or hitching a ride. It certainly appears that the window frame behind is grinning through. Thanks Simon, Michael and Dave again for further comments and I'm leaning towards the loco actually being coal fired.

Yorkshire Dave - thank you for the info about the train of the unidentified Bulleid Pacific and then the excellent stuff about the electric stock. As will become part of the story in a later post I was in the same approximate area (sometimes exactly the same area) at the same approximate time as Tim, just as the steam service were ceasing. I don't remember the new electric stock at all, although I suspect it was there, and it doesn't appear in any of my photos. On the trip I did I left my camera on the train at Waterloo and lost the final sequence of photos - we went to Eastleigh after Ashford. There were T9s and M7s at least on that roll of film and it still hurts to think about it!

The class H we saw recently in post #3116 and which I suspect we'll see more of in the sequence. It's 31305 on a Maidstone East to Tonbridge train at Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. To repeat the earlier notes: By October 1955 it was allocated to Bricklayers Arms, so a long way from home here. It went to Stewarts Lane in June 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following November. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in July 1964. (BR Database).

img2648 TM Neg Strip 31 31305 Maidstone East to Tonbridge Paddock Wood 10 Jun 61 copyright Final.jpg

Now two of the same loco, 31305 on the Maidstone East to Tonbridge train en route on 10th June 1961, fire irons on the tank top and clearly taken from the train window next to the loco.

img2649 TM Neg Strip 31 31305 Maidstone East to Tonbridge en route 10 Jun 61 copyright Final.jpg

img2650 TM Neg Strip 31 31305 Maidstone East to Tonbridge en route 10 Jun 61 copyright Final.jpg

Class C 31588 on a Hawkhurst to Paddock Wood train South of Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. Tim records this as being the final day of services on the line. 31588 was allocated to Gillingham in at least 1947 and moved from there to Ashford in November 1961 where it was withdrawn on 23rd June 1962. (SLS). The SLS also records it as being allocated to Stewarts Lane two days later but this seems most unlikely. According to WHTS it was observed in Ashford Works on 1st July and BR Database report a scrapping date of July 1962 which all fits quite nicely. The train looks like a Maunsell pull-push set to me.

img2651 TM Neg Strip 31 31588 Hawkhurst-Paddock Wood (last day) South of Paddock Wood 10 Jun 6...jpg

Finally for the BR scene today what must be something of a rarity with unidentified BR Standard 2-6-4T and Inspection Saloon DS1 at Paddock Wood Station on 10th June 1961.

img2652 TM Neg Strip 31 Unknown BR Standard 2-6-4T & Inspection Saloon Paddock Wood Station 10...jpg

For some reason I failed to Photoshop this photo which is part of the series of the Rheine-Emden trip in March 1974 and 0-10-0T 094 640-0 at Emden previously seen and commented on in post #3094, and subsequent - also post #3112 so here it is now.

img4128 TM 884 840-0 Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

Two of the same train in the Rheine Emden March 1974 series of an unidentified Pacific at either Emden or Meppen.

Edit: The last two numbers seem to be 2-4, so this should be 012 082-4, the only engine with these end-numbers. Albert Gieseler -- 01.10 Öl is a valuable source of information. It lists all numbers within every class. If available, there are also pictures of the indiviual engine.

The coach behind the loco is also interesting. This seems to be a Pw4ü 36 "Packwagen" for parcels and luggage. It can be recognized at its split doors and the recessed end doors. This class had a pulpit for the train conductor, but this particular wagon seems to have lost it.

img4133 TM Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

img4134 TM Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

Brian
 
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Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
A slight addition to notes, I agree completely with Yorkshire Dave's comments re 2 HAPs, if I can make out the number accurately it is S75701 which makes it the DTC from unit 6107. Whilst June 1961 saw the beginning of electric services on phase 2 of the Kent Coast Electrification, the full timetable didn't start until June 62 when all the resignalling had been commissioned.

DS1 being propelled by something, I've seen pics of it with an H and a C class and I suspect it was whatever was left in the shed that morning, isn't quite a rarity as might be imagined. It was used for driver route training extensively. The carriage is the ex LSWR Directors Saloon of 1885, downgraded to general inspection duties. It too hadn't so long to go, a replacement was a conversion of Maunsell composite S5600 into DS70155 into use in Nov 62, which survived on the K&ESR after withdrawal by BR in 1990, but later vandalised by arson.

Both the H class 31305 and C class 31588 are pulling a Maunsell P&P set, quite possibly 609 as there photos of that set on Hawkhurst trains in the June of that year. It seems that 31588 only worked the back shift on the last day , the morning services being handled by 31256. It should be noted that 31305 is not P&P equipped so the carriages are just hauled stock.

Martin
 
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michael080

Western Thunderer
Two of the same train in the Rheine Emden March 1974 series of an unidentified Pacific at either Emden or Meppen.

View attachment 209812

The last two numbers seem to be 2-4, so this should be 012 082-4, the only engine with these end-numbers. Albert Gieseler -- 01.10 Öl is a valuable source of information. It lists all numbers within every class. If available, there are also pictures of the indiviual engine.

The coach behind the loco is also interesting. This seems to be a Pw4ü 36 "Packwagen" for parcels and luggage. It can be recognized at its split doors and the recessed end doors. This class had a pulpit for the train conductor, but this particular wagon seems to have lost it.
 
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mickoo

Western Thunderer
Back to post 3123, it's a West Country, several ran without crests and when rebuilt had simple straight name plates.

As far as I can tell, all Battle of Britain engines retained the shield when rebuilt. I haven't checked every single rebuilt BoB photo I have, but all the ones I have seen show a shield so that'll do me; the current statistics are heavily against one not having a shield :))
 

AJC

Western Thunderer
Back to post 3123, it's a West Country, several ran without crests and when rebuilt had simple straight name plates.

As far as I can tell, all Battle of Britain engines retained the shield when rebuilt. I haven't checked every single rebuilt BoB photo I have, but all the ones I have seen show a shield so that'll do me; the current statistics are heavily against one not having a shield :))

I'd agree with that - and the last cabside digit looks like a 5 which hints at 34025, Whimple (as does the short-looking name).

Adam
 

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
DS1 being propelled by something, I've seen pics of it with an H and a C class and I suspect it was whatever was left in the shed that morning, isn't quite a rarity as might be imagined. It was used for driver route training extensively. The carriage is the ex LSWR Directors Saloon of 1885, downgraded to general inspection duties. It too hadn't so long to go, a replacement was a conversion of Maunsell composite 5600 into DS70155 into use in Nov 62, which survived on the K&ESR after withdrawal by BR in 1990, but later vandalised by arson.

Martin

I have seen photos of DS1 being pulled/propelled by Sulzer Type 2 diesel D5011 and another shot of it with a BR Class 4MT tank at Dover.

I made a stab of building the Southwark Bridge 7mm model back in 2011 but this was as far as I managed before my eyes started to play up -

IMG_3541.JPG

the bogies were fixed to the chassis by press studs!

regards

Mike
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
The class H we saw recently in post #3116 and which I suspect we'll see more of in the sequence. It's 31305 on a Maidstone East to Tonbridge train at Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961. To repeat the earlier notes: By October 1955 it was allocated to Bricklayers Arms, so a long way from home here. It went to Stewarts Lane in June 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following November. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in July 1964. (BR Database).

img2648 TM Neg Strip 31 31305 Maidstone East to Tonbridge Paddock Wood 10 Jun 61 copyright Final.jpg

The Bulleid coach in the background is a 1945/46 diag 2316 59' corridor composite.
 
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Includes German Railways 1974

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thank you Martin. More useful stuff and safely recorded.

Michael - Thanks for yours too, the potential loco ID and the reference material. The info on that vehicle is really handy too.

Mick and Adam. I agree that it's a West Country, although I'm not so sure about whether it's 34025 as that was shedded at Eastleigh from the preceding May so it would be unlikely on a train in Kent. Nevertheless, with that caveat it's added to the info and thanks for the suggestion.

Mike. That model of DS1 is rather lovely. In fact my son Steph (lately of this parish) had one to build but when he sold his UK stock I forgot to ask him to keep it for me. However, I believe Roxey Mouldings now has the Southwark Bridge range so not all is lost. That press stud fixing of the bogies is, I understand, quite traditional. Thanks too for your observations regarding DS1.

Thanks for yours, Yorkshire Dave. As the corridor connection has been removed I'm pretty convinced that it's a pull-push pair which were converted, I believe, quite late on. In fact there's an image a bit later in this group where the same loco and a set number of 616 is clearly visible. Edit: I misunderstood your note, Dave, and now I look at the photo again I ca see the carriage you are talking abut behind the H hauled train. Apologies!

I may only have time for a few BR/SR photos today but we'll see how it goes.

Original air smoothed Battle of Britain 34083 605 Squadron on a down Ramsgate train at Paddock Wood Station on 10th June 1961. It was allocated to Ashford in May 1961 and then Exmouth Junction in November the same year where it was withdrawn in June 1964. (SLS). It was observed in store at Exmouth by the Railway Observer in early and late September 1964, then at Hayes/Bird's Bridgend where it was reported by the LCGB in February 1965 and by the Railway Observer in June 1965. According to WHTS it was last seen intact at Bird's on 27th September 1965.

img2653 TM Neg Strip 31 34083 down Ramsgate Paddock Wood Station 10 Jun 61 copyright Final.jpg

Last seen very recently in post #3131 is Class C 31588 backing stock in to Paddock Wood Station on 10th June 1961, the final day of services on the Paddock Wood to Hawkhurst line. To repeat the earlier comments: 31588 was allocated to Gillingham in at least 1947 and moved from there to Ashford in November 1961 where it was withdrawn on 23rd June 1962. (SLS). The SLS also records it as being allocated to Stewarts Lane two days later but this seems most unlikely. According to WHTS it was observed in Ashford Works on 1st July and BR Database report a scrapping date of July 1962 which all fits quite nicely.

img2654 TM Neg Strip 31 31588 backing stock to station Paddock Wood Area 10 Jun 61 copyright F...jpg

Another of the same loco on a Hawkhurst train at Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961, new electric stock much in evidence. That signal box just cries out to be modelled.

img2656 TM Neg Strip 31 31588 Hawkhurst train (last day) Paddock Wood Area 10 Jun 61 copyright...jpg
An unidentified N Class 2-6-0 on a local train at Paddock Wood on 10th June 1961 using set 549. It seems to have the number chalked just above the buffer beam but it's still difficult to read. The C Class can be seen in the platform on the extreme left and what appears to be Bulleid stock to the right, but doubtless (and with luck) that description will be put right.

Edit: I think the last digits on the Class N are '24'. If so this could be 31824, which , as far as I can ascertain, spent it's time at Bricklayers Arms (73B) (at least since June 1947) until a final allocation to Stewarts Lane (after it became 75D) (in July 1960). The SLS then reports it at Redhill from July 1963 where it was withdrawn in the following October. Once again - just an educated guess, but this is the only N with last two digits '24'.

The Railway Observer reports it at Eastleigh Works in January 1964 where it was cut up in week ending 18th January 1964.

img2655 TM Neg Strip 31 Unknown N local train Paddock Wood Area 10 Jun 61 copyright Final.jpg

Well, there is time for some Germany so, once again, Rheine - Emden in May 1974. Once again a couple of 0-10-0T 094 640-0 at Emden previously seen and commented on in post #3094, and subsequent - also post #3112 and #3131.

img4135 TM Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

img4136 TM Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

I'm assuming this is a 2-10-0 and at Emden although I have no other details.

img4137 TM Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

img4138 TM Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 copyright Final.jpg

Brian
 
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Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
I think the last digits on the Class N are '24'. If so this could be 31824, which , as far as I can ascertain, spent it's time at Bricklayers Arms (73B) until a final allocation to Stewarts Lane (after it became 75D) . Once again - just an educated guess, but this is the only N with last two digits '24'.

Roger.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Thanks for yours, Yorkshire Dave. As the corridor connection has been removed I'm pretty convinced that it's a pull-push pair which were converted, I believe, quite late on. In fact there's an image a bit later in this group where the same loco and a set number of 616 is clearly visible.

I was referring to the coach on the background of the photo.

The push pull set itself was converted from Maunsell coaching stock.
 
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