Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[40057]

Behind "1010", the second vehicle is a GWR Y11 Fruit D, which had three pairs of doors. (There's also another, or the same one, behind the unidentified 61xx, three photos up.)
The fourth vehicle seems to be a passenger coach, could be a "Big Four" design, a Mk1 open second, or the corridor side of a compartmented one. The windows are "frosted" up to the sliding part of the window. Odd.
The second van behind 6805, is probably a GWR V22 Mink G, slightly longer than the Fruit D, but with only two pairs of doors.

The coach certainly isn’t a Mk1 (note truss rods).

 

[AJC]

The coach certainly isn’t a Mk1 (note truss rods).

Pretty certain it’s an LMS brake - I think there’s a ducket at the near end, which rules out GW types, it’s obviously not Southern or LNER, and the battery boxes look right. Beyond that I’ve no idea!

Adam

 

[oldravendale]

I'm really getting in to this wagon stuff. Thanks again Barry @Barry37.

Not much on TV at the mo so another set of photos - that's two in one day! As I did with the German railway photos I'll add some odds and ends going forward - there's a few boats/ships and traction engines, about which I know even less than railway locos or locations so help is always needed.

At North Wembley on the up fast line around 23rd June 1962 is an unidentified Princess Coronation.



Previously seen in post #2891 is Royal Scot 46169 The Boy Scout on the down fast at North Wembley around 23rd June 1962. It was at Crewe North in September 1959, then Annesley in January 1963 where it was withdrawn the following May. (SLS). It was scrapped at Crewe Works by the end of August 1963. (Rail UK).



Jubilee 45556 Nova Scotia on an up parcels train at North Wembley on approximately 23rd June 1962. The loco was allocated to Crewe North in June 1954 and was withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped in January 1965 at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge. (BR Database).



Seen previously in post #908 is Jubilee 45726 Vindictive. Here it is on an up express at North Wembley at some time around 23rd June 1962. The Jubilee was allocated to Crewe North in July 1963 but was then loaned to Patricroft in May 1954 and Bushbury in July the same year, returning to Crewe North in the same month. It ended up at Warrington Dallam in December 1963 before withdrawal in March 1965. (SLS). It next went to T W Ward, Beighton, Sheffield (RO) where it was scrapped in June the same year. (BR Database).



Some bonus photos, probably for Dave @Yorkshire Dave who, I believe, has an interest in shipping.

My research suggests this is Ship No 1576 Carrigan Head which was a cargo ship built by Harland & Wolf in Belfast for the North Atlantic service. It was launched on 2nd July 1958 by a Mrs Clark. It was delivered to the owner on November 18th 1958. It was sold to Cypriot owners in 1972 and named Chrysanthi and again in 1980 it was renamed Rysan and broken up at Gadani Beach in the same year.
see Harland and Wolff - Shipbuilding and Engineering Works.

With apologies I can't remove this blank block below but there's more after it!

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Judging by other photos in this sequence this was probably taken on 24th July 1958 so the ship was new and this is probably photographed in Belfast being fitted out.



I could gather fewer details for this one which I believe to be Harrison Line's MV Herdsman possibly in Heysham but more likely Belfast and again probably 24th July 1958. The ship built in 1947 at Wm. Doxford, Sunderland.

Under different owners the ship became HOCK AUN in 1965 and KOTA SELAMAT in 1969. It was broken up in Whampoa in November 1973.



MV Fruin was a livestock carrier which again could be at Heysham but more likely Belfast and probably on 24th July 1958. The owner was Wm. Sloan & Co Ltd and the ship was built in 1954 at George Brown in Greenock. This was a frequent visitor to Belfast, Bristol and Glasgow. Before 1958 the ship was known as Fife Coast and In 1963 this ship became Stormont, in 1976 Rabunion VII and in 1992 Baraa Z. It was scrapped in Lebanon with work commencing around June 1994.



Brian

 

[LarryG]

The coach with 'windows frosted up' is an LMS open second. The frosting might be a reflection of something off camera.

 

[Barry37]

Pretty certain it’s an LMS brake - I think there’s a ducket at the near end, which rules out GW types, it’s obviously not Southern or LNER, and the battery boxes look right. Beyond that I’ve no idea!

Adam

LMS D1704A - heavily - and expensively - rebuilt from D1704 (which had panelled sides, built c.1929) in 1939-40 seems to fit.

The coach with 'windows frosted up' is an LMS open second. The frosting might be a reflection of something off camera.

Windows don't seem to match an open second(aka Third) - the coach in the photo has six long windows and a short brake compartment, and the open second seems to have had seven.
I agree that the apparent frosting is likely a reflection, as this effect can be seen in a later photo. As it only affects the windows, presumably the body was in need of a clean. I wonder what it was doing in the middle of a parcels train?

 

[LarryG]

LMS D1704A - heavily - and expensively - rebuilt from D1704 (which had panelled sides, built c.1929) in 1939-40 seems to fit.

Windows don't seem to match an open second(aka Third) - the coach in the photo has six long windows and a short brake compartment, and the open second seems to have had seven.

The coach is an LMS open third to D1946.....Door, lavatory, 6 large windows, brake comp.

 

[timbowales]

It's never a good idea to argue with Larry re LMS coaches, just saying..........

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Coming to the three (or four?) vessels.

In the photograph of MV Herdsman you can see Tim was sailing on TSS Duke of Argyll, home port Lancaster, (name and home port is on the lifebelt). This vessel was built in 1956 at Harland and Wolff for British Railways and used on the Belfast - Heysham route from 1956 to 1975. She was one of three built for this service along with TSS Duke of Lancaster and TSS Duke of Rothesay.

The location for all three photographs is Belfast and Tim is entering the lower part of the Victoria Channel towards Donegall Quay on the River Lagan. This was the original ferry terminal prior to being resited before the confluence of the Victoria Channel and Herdman Channel. The tall building in the background behind MV Herdsman is Andrews Grain Silo which was demolished in 2007.

Below is an annotated OSNI Six inch to One mile Irish Grid (1952-1967) series map. OSNI are not in the NLS OS database, however, they can be found here Search the PRONI Historical Maps viewer

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Not much on TV at the mo

That's no great loss - I don't even have a television set .

I just catch up with the latest programmes by listening to my team talk about them at work....

 

[Barry37]

The coach is an LMS open third to D1946.....Door, lavatory, 6 large windows, brake comp.

I was a bit doubtful about the D1704, as the coach in the photo seemed to have equal spaced windows. Battery box is on the other side on D1704, too (assuming they were all the same).
The train is not unlike something that appeared at Paddington around Easter 1975 during a shunters' strike at OOC(?), and was claimed to be a passenger train to Bristol. MrsP (who was expecting our first child at the time) sat on a suitcase in a full brake for the journey to Bristol Parkway.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The train is not unlike something that appeared at Paddington around Easter 1975 during a shunters' strike at OOC(?), and was claimed to be a passenger train to Bristol. MrsP (who was expecting our first child at the time) sat on a suitcase in a full brake for the journey to Bristol Parkway.

Shades of Hancock's Half Hour - The Rail Strike (first broadcast in June 1955)

If you have a BBC log in Hancock's Half Hour - Series 2 - The Rail Strike - BBC Sounds

Or

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Larry, Barry @Barry37 and Tim @timbowales for continuing the discussion and bottoming out the details of that coach.

You've provided pretty well all I could have hoped for about those ships, David @Yorkshire Dave. Details carefully preserved in an associated file. As for the content of TV, it's mostly Strictly come Dancing (What's so strict about it?) although there are occasionally some inspiring programmes. My favourite response to being asked if I'd seen something on TV was "TV? Oh, I remember TV. I think I have one in the loft..."

Moving on.

A3 60110 Robert the Devil on the down White Rose at Potters Bar on 23rd June 1962. It had been allocated to Kings Cross in July 1957 and withdrawn in May 1963. (SLS). It entered Doncaster Works on 11th June 1963 where it was cut up in the same month. (Yeadons and WHTS). This loco was previously in post #3022.



A3 60054 Prince of Wales on an up York and Hull train at Potters Bar on 23rd June 1962. Prince of Wales was allocated to Grantham in July 1957, moved to Doncaster in October 1963 and ended up at New England in November the same year where it was withdrawn in June 1964. (SLS). It was sold for scrap to R A King at Norwich in August 1964 and reported as scrapped in the same month. (BR Database).



B1 61331 on a down Butlins Special at Potters Bar on 23rd June 1962. The B1 was allocated to New England in April 1960 and withdrawn in September 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at R A Kings, Norwich, in January 1964. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

A3 60112 St Simon seen previously in post #3012 is here on a down Leeds and Bradford extra at Potters Bar on 3rd June 1962. This is carrying fins around the chimney as one of the early efforts to limit drifting smoke and it received the German style deflectors on a general overhaul visit to Doncaster in October 1962. In July 1961 it was at Grantham and had been since July 1959. In October 1963 it was allocated to Doncaster and went to New England in November 1963 being withdrawn from there just after Christmas in 1964. (SLS). It was sold to Kings of Norwich for scrap in February 1965. (BR Database).



A4 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley on a down express at Potters Bar on 23rd June 1962. We’ve seen this loco on here more often than you shake the proverbial stick at and most recently in post #3004. It had been a Kings Cross engine since June 1950, moving to New England in June 1963 thence to St Margarets in November and then Aberdeen Ferryhill in August 1964 where it was withdrawn at the beginning of February 1966. (SLS). For information about it's life in preservation see 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley (LNER 4498, LNER 600, LNER 7 & BR 60007)



Britannia 70039 Sir Christopher Wren standing in for a failed Deltic on an up Leeds train at Potters Bar on 23rd June 1962. Seen previously in post #2017 the loco lived at Immingham from the end of 1960 and in December 1963 went to Carlisle Upperby ending up at Carlisle Kingmoor where it was withdrawn in September 1967. (SLS). It then went to J Mc Williams at Shettleston where it was scrapped by the end of January 1968. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[timbowales]

There's a prototype for @simond there, 60112 "St Simon"

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

A bit more on the ferry Tim was sailing on in post #4,003 - TSS Duke of Argyll.

Owner/Operator: 1956-1963 British Transport Commission; 1963-1975 Sealink (when shipping became separated from British Rail).
Built: 1955-6 Harland & Wolff as a ferry and cruise ship.
Launched: 12/01/1956
Maiden voyage: 27/09/1956
Port of registration: Lancaster
Route: Heysham - Belfast
Out of service: 1975
Fate: 1975 sold to Greece
Owner: 1975-1987, 1987-1994 Libra Maritime
Operator: 1975-1987, 1987-1994 Hellenic Maritime Lines
Name: 1975-1987 Neptuna; 1987-1994 Corinthia
Out of service: 1987
Fate: 1994 sold to Hong Kong
Owner and operator: Hong Kong
Name: 1994-1995 Faith Power; 1995-1995 Fairy Princess; 1995-1995 Zenith
Out of service: 1995
Fate: Caught fire, scrapped

As for the time of the three Belfast photographs these would have been taken around at 07.00 hrs (7.00 am) or 08.00 hrs (8.00 am) depending on what day Tim sailed. This is an extract from the 1958 (9th June to 14th September) London Midland Region timetable.




Today the Heysham - Belfast sailings are freight only apart from the Isle of Man Steam Packet Co's two daily passenger and freight Ro-Ro sailings from Heysham to Douglas at 02.15 (2.15 am) and 14.15 (2.15 pm). Heysham Port still has one daily train from Lancaster to connect with the latter daily sailing to Douglas.

These are two of mine of Heysham Port station in August 2012 taken after arrival from Douglas (IOM) on Ben-my-Chree (built in 1998 by Van der Giessen de Noord, Rotterdam) and when the train ran to Leeds rather than Lancaster.

 

[timbowales]

Heysham to Leeds in a Nodding Donkey! Grim or what

 

[Arun Sharma]

A3 60112 St Simon seen previously in post #3012 is here on a down Leeds and Bradford extra at Potters Bar on 3rd June 1962. This is carrying fins around the chimney as one of the early efforts to limit drifting smoke and it received the German style deflectors on a general overhaul visit to Doncaster in October 1962. In July 1961 it was at Grantham and had been since July 1959. In October 1963 it was allocated to Doncaster and went to New England in November 1963 being withdrawn from there just after Christmas in 1964. (SLS). It was sold to Kings of Norwich for scrap in February 1965. (BR Database).

View attachment 225079

A4 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley on a down express at Potters Bar on 23rd June 1962. We’ve seen this loco on here more often than you shake the proverbial stick at and most recently in post #3004. It had been a Kings Cross engine since June 1950, moving to New England in June 1963 thence to St Margarets in November and then Aberdeen Ferryhill in August 1964 where it was withdrawn at the beginning of February 1966. (SLS). For information about it's life in preservation see 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley (LNER 4498, LNER 600, LNER 7 & BR 60007)

View attachment 225080

Britannia 70039 Sir Christopher Wren standing in for a failed Deltic on an up Leeds train at Potters Bar on 23rd June 1962. Seen previously in post #2017 the loco lived at Immingham from the end of 1960 and in December 1963 went to Carlisle Upperby ending up at Carlisle Kingmoor where it was withdrawn in September 1967. (SLS). It then went to J Mc Williams at Shettleston where it was scrapped by the end of January 1968. (BR Database).

View attachment 225081

Brian

The Coronation [in #4043] may well be unidentified but:
a - It's a de-streamlined loco.
b. There are a few it can't be because several had crests/crowns over the nameplate
c. It can't be a survivor of Harrow because that loco was rebuilt with the curved extension to the running plate common to the unstreamlined locos.
d. I can't tell whether it is a red'un or a green 'un but if discerable, that would further reduce the possibilities.

 

[simond]

There's a prototype for @simond there, 60112 "St Simon"

The prototype is a rail beer tank - will try to find the photo

 

[Barry37]

Shades of Hancock's Half Hour - The Rail Strike (first broadcast in June 1955)

If you have a BBC log in Hancock's Half Hour - Series 2 - The Rail Strike - BBC Sounds

Or

Thanks.
Audio/Radio is much cheaper to do, when it involves what would otherwise be expensive/impossible storylines!
A long-remembered line from another episode is "At least my mother's gravy moved about."

 

[LarryG]

When I see elderly coaches at the front of a rain, I see them as crunch vehicles in case of a mishap! There is even a non-corridor Thompson leading one corridor consist.