Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Arun Sharma]

Here’s another seen previously, in post #2302. It’s Class O1 2-8-0 63590 on Cambridge Shed on 7th June 1959. Allocated to March in March 1957 it moved to Staveley in November 1959. It was finally at Langwith Junction from June 1965 and was withdrawn within the month. (SLS). In July and August 1965 it was seen in store at Langwith Junction. It arrived at Dairycoates Sidings at Hull on 20th September 1965 and was cut up at Draper's in Hull on 4th October. (I have cobbled this data together from WHTS as there are some conflicting sightings). BR Database advises that it was sold for scrap to A Draper, Hull in August 1965 and cut up in the following October.

View attachment 233195

Brian

Egan & Scotney's book "BR Locos Cut Up by Drapers of Hull" ISBN 0 907033 83 0 gives the cutting up date for 63590 as 04 Oct 65.
In the rabbit hole of Stonebridge Park trolleybuses, post-April 1959, most were transferred ex-Bow Depot N1 and N2 classes. These being classes introduced at the beginning of WW2 and were thus some of the youngest trolleybuses in London. Prior to their transfer in April '59, these Bow vehicles were always known as the cleanest buses in London [and they used to run past my bedroom window!]
That happy state of affairs didn't survive transfer though - Their final days at Stonebridge Park in Dec '61 to Jan '62 spent being covered in snow and slush in a foretaste of what to happen to London a year later on Boxing Day 1962.

 

[John Palmer]

Img3788 showing the push-pull train at Hove reveals some interesting rolling stock. Michael Welch gives full details in his “Southern Coaches in Colour”, and, assuming all those details are correct, Set 37 consisted of an ex-SECR 2nd/3rd Composite Brake No.1342 converted to push-pull driving trailer in 1941 with, by the time of this 1959 picture, ex-LBSCR 'Luggage Third' No.2193, which in 1954 took its place in this set as a replacement for ex-LSWR Third (originally Composite) No.279. At this time the set was operating from Horsham on a range of services including Horsham-Brighton. The furthest carriage, adjacent to the M7, is by the look of its compartment layout and angle-trussed underframe, an ex-SECR 'long ten' Third that has been added to strengthen Set 37's composition. Some of these were fitted with air control piping to permit their use in push-pull services. I would have liked to cross-check the details given by Michael Welch against those in David Gould's “Carriage Stock of the SE&CR”, but unless there is a reference I have missed in David's book he makes no mention of the conversion of the SE&C Composite Brake to a driving trailer. However, I've no reason otherwise to doubt the details given in “Southern Coaches in Colour”.

 

[David B]

I’m no expert on Stanier locos, but I think that’s a rebuilt Patriot hurrying through Willesden Junction rather than Royal Scot 46129 - compared to The Girl Guide in the previous set of photos, it has the shallower buffer beam of a Patriot, plus the smaller cover for the inside cylinder below the smokebox. Perhaps this is 45529 Stephenson rather than 46129?

 

[Martin Shaw]

I can bring some info from Gould to confirm Michael Welch's information for John. During the Great War the SECR built at Ashford a further ten 3 car C sets, numbered 141 and 198 to 206. Set 198 comprised brake third 1339 (SR No 3467), composite lavatory 1345 (SR No 5496) and brake composite lavatory 1342 (SR No 3539) and was put into traffic in 7/16. The SR renumbered the set to 630 early in their ownership. As a common user set it and its compatriots were used widely across the Central and Easten divisions of the SR. In 1941 either due to accident damage or enemy action the set was deleted and the composite lav 5496 was withdrawn.

Brake third 3467 was fitted for P&P working. At the same time 3539 was also similarly converted however the two second(third)class compartments were converted to first and the lavatories removed. This latter action required its renumbering to 6410, a former LSW series number. It ran as a loose trailer from June 41 to May 47. At that time 3467 was paired with an ex LBSC trailer composite into set 714, and 6410 was paired with ex LSW third 608 to form Set 37 for Central Section services. In 1954 the LSW third was replaced by an ex LBSC third 2193 and it ran as such until Dec 60 when it went to Newhaven for scrapping.

I would agree with John the the other vehicle is likely an ex SECR 10 compartment third, some of the P&P fitted ones were allocated to Horsham but as loose vehicles rather than permanently in sets.
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Nice reminiscence there, Tim @timbowales - keep 'em coming! Also the info you've provided, Arun, and thanks for the additional info about the 2-8-0.

To both John @John Palmer and Martin @Martin Shaw my grateful thanks for a load of info about that pull-push set and, indeed other aspects of the SR pull-push stock.

Finally David @David B - having studied the photo again I think you are absolutely correct. I'm going to rewrite the commentary for that photo by way of an edit.

Britannia 70036 Boadicea (seen previously in posts #1815 and #3682) on an up passenger fast train at Witham, Essex on 30th March 1959. It was a recent addition to the stud at Norwich Thorpe where it had been allocated in the previous February, going to March in November 1960 and then Immingham in October 1961. The final shed was Carlisle Kingmoor and it was withdrawn from there in October 1966 (SLS), going to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap at Wishaw where it was broken up in January 1967. (BR Database).



A B1 at Witham, in this case 61089, on 30th March 1959. At the time it was a Stratford engine and had been since October 1957. In December 1960 it was transferred to Lincoln, then Immingham in October 1963 and Colwick in July 1965 where it was withdrawn in April 1966. (SLS). It ended up at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge where it was broken up in May 1966. (BR Database)



A loco with a long and varied career is A1X 0-6-0T 32670, here at Brighton Shed on 28th May 1959. It came in to capital stock after being sold to the Kent & East Sussex Railway and the earliest data I have for it refers to it being on the K & ESR on 1st January 1948. (BR Database). Then there’s an SLS report about Ashford Works on 8th October 1949 and 32670, ex K & ESR No 3 in green as being present. The SLS further report it as in store in April 1951, allocated to St Leonards in August 1954, put back in to strore in February and reinstated in June, then back in to store in September, all in 1955 before going to Brighton In January 1958 and Eastleigh in May 1963 where it was withdrawn in November 1963. Rather appropriately it’s now back on the K & ESR – see https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/32670-lbscr-70-poplar-rother-valley-railway-3-bodian-br-32670/



Standard Class 5 4-6-0 73089 Maid of Astolat at Brighton Shed on 28th May 1959. When new the loco was allocated to Stewarts Lane in September 1955, then Nine Elms in June 1958 and Guildford in October 1965 where it was withdrawn in September 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped in June 1967 at Cashmore’s Newport. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Roger Pound]

Although a lifelong fan of more northern railway companies, I must admit a closet interest in the locomotives of the LBSCR in particular and a more fleeting one in other Southern types. Thus I have found the recent pictures of the E class tanks of particular interest. I have a fondness for 0-6-2 tank engines in general for some inexplicable reason - don't ask! I do recollect one, possibly on station pilot duty at Brighton when I went there to convalesce after a work related injury in 1962. It was simmering gently away at the platform end awaiting it's next movement as I recall. I realize now from your copious notes that it must have been one of the remaining few at that time - my own records for that period have vanished in the passing years.
I regret that as far as trolley bus traction is concerned, my only experience was in Bournemouth when taken there on holiday as a young lad. The thing that sticks in the mind was the rapid acceleration........!
Once more my thanks, Brian, for reviving old memories.

Roger .

 

[robertm]

Thank you for the images of Witham in #4645, the wave of nostalgia is very powerful.
I recall standing on the platform, having journeyed from Braintree to catch a glimpse of main line activity. The bracket signal was keenly watched for warning of another train.
The Britannias were awesome and sadly too soon replaced by that hopeless EE T4, a very unworthy successor. Things brightened up marginally when the Clacton EMUs arrived, they looked fabulous in maroon livery with original wraparound windows.
More exGER please.
Bob

 

[simond]

The thing that sticks in the mind was the rapid acceleration........!

I never experienced trolleybuses, but do recall John Matthews saying much the same thing - you’d run after a diesel bus if it were pulling out but it wasn’t worth trying with a trolleybus!

I guess, like steam locos, full torque is available at zero speed - certainly with the simple control systems of the day.

 

[Michael Hall]

I never experienced trolleybuses, but do recall John Matthews saying much the same thing - you’d run after a diesel bus if it were pulling out but it wasn’t worth trying with a trolleybus!

I guess, like steam locos, full torque is available at zero speed - certainly with the simple control systems of the day.

To echo simond's remarks, my trolleybus memories go back to Belfast and I remember clearly that if you didn't get seated quickly you were in trouble...may I say the acceleration was electric (runs for the hills!)

 

[Mike Walker]

A friend who started his career as a conductor on London trolleybuses told me that's why they had a large 'Trolleybus' sign in the back window to discourage the habit of Londoners chasing after a bus and jumping on the open platform. It might work on a RT but with a trolleybus you were more likely to left lying face down in the street.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for yours, Roger @Roger Pound. There's no doubt that certain images linger in the memory... Also Bob @robertm. Many of Tim's earliest pictures were around Witham - at the time he lived nearby - and it was an area that held special memories for him too. Thanks too to Simon @simond and Michael @Michael Hall for more trolleybus references. I remember the Bournemouth Trolley buses with much affection too, Roger - possibly even more than the London versions with which I was more familiar. I could spend time (much to the chagrin of the remainder of the family) watching the crews turn them on the turntable at Christchurch.

A1X DS377, AKA 32635 at Brighton Shed Yard on 25th April 1959. In the first photo note the loco in the background, probably an L 4-4-0. DS377 was at Brighton from March 1959 and withdrawn in March 1963 having been returned to capital stock as 32635 in March 1959 so why in April was it still numbered DS377? BR Database records the renumbering as on 11th March 1959 so does this suggest tat the date of Tim’s photo is incorrect or, (and in my opinion more likely) did the repainting and renumbering not take place immediately? It became a departmental loco as 377S at or before January 1947 and re-identified under BR as DS377 in January 1948. (BR Database and SLS). It went to Eastleigh for disposal and was cut up week ending 21st September 1963. (RO).





L Class 31777 on Falmer Bank 2nd May 1959. The loco was allocated o Ashford in December 1952, went in to store in October 1953 and was reinstated the following early December but back in to store by the end of the month. It was reinstated yet again in June 1954 going to Brighton in June 1956 and Nine Elms in June 1959 where it was withdrawn the following September. (SLS). It went to Ashford for scrapping which was completed week ending 26th September 1959. (RO)



Another L Class we’ve seen in post #3175, 31760 was allocated to Nine Elms in June 1959 from Tonbridge where it had lived, in and out of store and reinstatement since October 1948. (SLS). Here it’s on Falmer Bank on 2nd May 1959. Withdrawal came in June 1961. (SLS). The Railway Observer records the loco as scrapped at Ashford Works week ending 15th July 1961.



34019 Bideford was seen previously in post #1501 and here it’s at Feltham Shed in 1964. Note the chalked name on the casing side – nameplate missing but otherwise looking in good shape. This was a favourite for rail tours – in fact I took a series of photos of it at Eastleigh complete with nameplate in September 1965 and on a tour on the same day. My last photo of it was at Nine Elms on the last day of Southern steam when it was acting as a donor for Blackmore Vale which was inside the shed sandwiched between 34019 and 34002. It was allocated to Salisbury in September 1963 and Feltham doubtless in its "mixed traffic" guise for a brief period in September 1964. It was finally at Nine Elms from the following November and withdrawn in mid March 1967 (SLS) whence it went to Cashmore's, Newport, where it was broken up during September the same year. (BR Database)



Brian

 

[Barry37]

Thanks for yours, Roger @Roger Pound. There's no doubt that certain images linger in the memory... Also Bob @robertm. Many of Tim's earliest pictures were around Witham - at the time he lived nearby - and it was an area that held special memories for him too. Thanks too to Simon @simond and Michael @Michael Hall for more trolleybus references. I remember the Bournemouth Trolley buses with much affection too, Roger - possibly even more than the London versions with which I was more familiar. I could spend time (much to the chagrin of the remainder of the family) watching the crews turn them on the turntable at Christchurch.

A1X DS377, AKA 32635 at Brighton Shed Yard on 25th April 1959. In the first photo note the loco in the background, probably an L 4-4-0. DS377 was at Brighton from March 1959 and withdrawn in March 1963 having been returned to capital stock as 32635 in March 1959 so why in April was it still numbered DS377? BR Database records the renumbering as on 11th March 1959 so does this suggest tat the date of Tim’s photo is incorrect or, (and in my opinion more likely) did the repainting and renumbering not take place immediately? It became a departmental loco as 377S at or before January 1947 and re-identified under BR as DS377 in January 1948. (BR Database and SLS). It went to Eastleigh for disposal and was cut up week ending 21st September 1963. (RO).

View attachment 233470

View attachment 233471

L Class 31777 on Falmer Bank 2nd May 1959. The loco was allocated o Ashford in December 1952, went in to store in October 1953 and was reinstated the following early December but back in to store by the end of the month. It was reinstated yet again in June 1954 going to Brighton in June 1956 and Nine Elms in June 1959 where it was withdrawn the following September. (SLS). It went to Ashford for scrapping which was completed week ending 26th September 1959. (RO)

View attachment 233472

Another L Class we’ve seen in post #3175, 31760 was allocated to Nine Elms in June 1959 from Tonbridge where it had lived, in and out of store and reinstatement since October 1948. (SLS). Here it’s on Falmer Bank on 2nd May 1959. Withdrawal came in June 1961. (SLS). The Railway Observer records the loco as scrapped at Ashford Works week ending 15th July 1961.

View attachment 233473

34019 Bideford was seen previously in post #1501 and here it’s at Feltham Shed in 1964. Note the chalked name on the casing side – nameplate missing but otherwise looking in good shape. This was a favourite for rail tours – in fact I took a series of photos of it at Eastleigh complete with nameplate in September 1965 and on a tour on the same day. My last photo of it was at Nine Elms on the last day of Southern steam when it was acting as a donor for Blackmore Vale which was inside the shed sandwiched between 34019 and 34002. It was allocated to Salisbury in September 1963 and Feltham doubtless in its "mixed traffic" guise for a brief period in September 1964. It was finally at Nine Elms from the following November and withdrawn in mid March 1967 (SLS) whence it went to Cashmore's, Newport, where it was broken up during September the same year. (BR Database)

View attachment 233469

Brian

32635/DS377 remained in the "Brighton Works" Stroudley LBSC livery, even after return to capital stock. I probably saw the loco around 1960-63, likely having put in an appearance at nearby Newhaven.
There's a photo taken on the West Breakwater* at Newhaven on 5th May 1960, of 32635 in the "Brighton Works" livery. The number is partly obscured by the driver, but appears to end in a 5, not a 7. The number is still in the drop-shaded LBSC style, so renumbering was not easy, as a signwriter had to be used or LBSC transfers found. There's no smokebox door plate either, as LBSC numbers were on the bufferbeam, which looks to be where the number is, but it's a bit murky in that part of the photo.
* It seems to be a posed photo, as usual motive power on the breakwater was the steam (until 1963) crane used to lift concrete blocks for repairs.

 

[AJC]

32635/DS377 remained in the "Brighton Works" Stroudley LBSC livery, even after return to capital stock. I probably saw the loco around 1960-63, likely having put in an appearance at nearby Newhaven.
There's a photo taken on the West Breakwater* at Newhaven on 5th May 1960, of 32635 in the "Brighton Works" livery. The number is partly obscured by the driver, but appears to end in a 5, not a 7. The number is still in the drop-shaded LBSC style, so renumbering was not easy, as a signwriter had to be used or LBSC transfers found. There's no smokebox door plate either, as LBSC numbers were on the bufferbeam, which looks to be where the number is, but it's a bit murky in that part of the photo.
* It seems to be a posed photo, as usual motive power on the breakwater was the steam (until 1963) crane used to lift concrete blocks for repairs.

It never did carry a numberplate (though it did get a Brighton shed plate). Some pictures and links in this thread on my model of the beast:

4mm - Brighton Works - An EM Terrier

I've decided to spin the Terrier posts out of my general workbench thread - just to provide a bit more focus - the most recent post is here: 4mm - An EM workbench - Open Highs | Page 26 | Western Thunder Anyhow, a quick summary of the current state of play: Gradually, the loco is coming to...

www.westernthunder.co.uk

Adam

 

[AJC]

Interesting to see in the background of 61089 at Witham (img 3769, but there in other shots), a pair of BR lorries. The left hand one is a Bedford K parcels and small items lorry, while the one on the right looks like a Thornycroft Nippy to me, or maybe a Sturdy, the next size up: either a flatbed (most likely) or a dropside.

Adam

​

 

[Barry37]

It never did carry a numberplate (though it did get a Brighton shed plate). Some pictures and links in this thread on my model of the beast:

4mm - Brighton Works - An EM Terrier

I've decided to spin the Terrier posts out of my general workbench thread - just to provide a bit more focus - the most recent post is here: 4mm - An EM workbench - Open Highs | Page 26 | Western Thunder Anyhow, a quick summary of the current state of play: Gradually, the loco is coming to...

www.westernthunder.co.uk

Adam

Interesting photos – real, and model.
My father made an OO model of Stepney, which I think started life as a Triang 3F, and spent its remaining days in a box. Seems to have gone by house-clearing time, otherwise I would have kept it.
I once made a K's Terrier, which was interesting. One of its features was the ability of the coupling rods to knock off the footplate steps. Think I sold it to Chuffs in the City of London.

 

[hrmspaul]

Hi Paul

The ex Colchester breakdown carriage got around, like the Colchester Signalling Works Engineer Colchester carriage did.

This is a photo neg I acquired some years ago, but the vehicle appears on your site and at various locations, including Ipswich and Norwich !

I've also built a model of the carriage , yet to be lettered.View attachment 232993

I assume KDE320759 as LNER Departmental coaches and others | KDE320759 QPV [1] LNER Departmental coaches and others | KDE320759 QPV [0] LNER Departmental coaches and others | KDE320759 QPV [2]

It had quite a long life and in 1990 appears to have gone from Whitemoor to Bere Ferrers Station Museum QPV KDE 320759 - departmentals.com

What colour do you think it was when used by BR? Certainly does not appear to be the red enamel of breakdown train coaching stock vehicles, certainly not olive green for a departmental coach (or the black used before that) Is it very worn Gulf red? I cannot look up Longworth to see if he suggests when it was withdrawn from capital stock - if c1960 - 2 then Gulf red is a possibility.

Paul

 

[hrmspaul]

Previously in post #2592 is Royal Scot 46168 The Girl Guide at Willesden Junction on 11th April 1959. 46168 was allocated to Camden at the time and had been there since November 1946, moving to Preston in September 1959 and Springs Branch, Wigan, where it was withdrawn in early May 1964. (SLS). It was despatched at Crewe Works at the end of August. (Rail UK).

View attachment 233139

Brian

When did Willesden Junction mainline station close to passengers? I am surprised to see spotters on the platform as I don't remember ever seeing anyone on the station and I had occasional journeys through before c1959 and then more regularly went up to town via Richmond, Willesden overhead change to suburban and then into Euston.

Paul