Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Yorkshire Dave]

The caption worries me a tad here for if the empties had come from Kensington and were destined for Wales then why take the route between Wood Lane and Greenford rather than continuing north towards Mitre Bridge and then join the GW main line at the eastern end of OOC yard (giving access to the down lines towards Reading)?

I wonder if the destination is somewhere to which use of the New Line is natural... for example mid-Wales?

Unless it had been routed via Greenford to join the GW main line at Hanwell & Elthorne to avoid a conflicting movement across the main lines.

Added to which the GC&GW Jnt would have had a lower traffic volume.

Was the GW main line set out as up and down fast and slow pairs or centre fast and outside slow?

 

[timbowales]

Unless it had been routed via Greenford to join the GW main line at Hanwell & Elthorne to avoid a conflicting movement across the main lines.

Was the GW main line set out as up and down fast and slow pairs or centre fast and outside slow?

The GWR never had Slow lines, they were known as Relief lines
Yes, from North to South they were Up Relief, Down Relief, Up Main, Down Main

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The GWR never had Slow lines, they were known as Relief lines
Yes, from North to South they were Up Relief, Down Relief, Up Main, Down Main

Thanks- I keep using LT terminology - I suppose I could have used 'Local'....

 

[Dog Star]

So no obvious conflict if the service had been routed Kensington to Mitre Bridge.

Brian, considering the recent group of photos which are described as "North Acton", I suggest that Tim was familiar with and used several locations within the area of North Acton... and not necessarily concerned with the niceties of train routing. Just suppose that what we are looking at is an empties working from Wood Lane? That would fit the picture as seen.

Now we need to know which locations sent milk to Wood Lane.

Rgds, Graham

 

[Barry37]

So no obvious conflict if the service had been routed Kensington to Mitre Bridge.

Brian, considering the recent group of photos which are described as "North Acton", I suggest that Tim was familiar with and used several locations within the area of North Acton... and not necessarily concerned with the niceties of train routing. Just suppose that what we are looking at is an empties working from Wood Lane? That would fit the picture as seen.

Now we need to know which locations sent milk to Wood Lane.

Rgds, Graham

Apart from Whitland, other rail-served dairies in west Wales, that I know of, were Johnstown: west of Carmarthen, Felinfach: between Lampeter and Aberaeron, and the small Pont Llanio: between Lampeter and Tregaron. Rail transport from Felinfach ceased in 1973, and Pont Llanio in 1970. There was a dairy at Haverfordwest, but that doesn't seem to have been rail-served.
There are several west Wales dairy/railway photos here. Includes an aerial view of Whitland which shows that milk in churns or milk products were also despatched in Syphons etc.
Not relevant, but there's an interesting photo of Pont Llanio with what may be sacks of milk powder in a couple of vans. The buildings pictured survive, but in a very dilapidated state.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Now we need to know which locations sent milk to Wood Lane.

I presume a London area Western Region WTT would provide information regarding the train at North Acton.

With the photo being taken in June and judging by the angle of the sun we have an idea of the time anywhere between mid-afternoon to early evening which would narrow down the search.

 

[Dog Star]

Looking at an appendix to "GWR Siphons", a possible explanation is that the service is taking the route towards Greenford so that a stop can be made at West Ealing to collect further empties... where the milk sidings were on the north / up side of the railway.

 

[oldravendale]

Tim @timbowales - I've not had the same experience as you but having travelled in China I have to say that sometimes the smells are, let's say, original. Rather oriental one might perhaps?

Graham @Dog Star. Thank you for kicking off the question about the milk train. Then Dave @Yorkshire Dave, Tim (again) and Barry @Barry37 - This is a very interesting discussion to which I have no answers but I wonder if you, Graham, have cracked it. Whichever way you consider it it's a good picture of a railway business long gone.

Tony @Osgood. An interesting rabbit hole and thanks but I'm going no further down that one.

Now we have some more "classic" 3/4 front train views. I have to say that I like Tim's original shots rather more but these are good in their own way.

Castle Class 7008 Swansea Castle on an up Oxford and Didcot train taken in the vee at Old Oak Common West Junction (the signal box can be seen in the background) on 15th June 1962. 7008 was taken from the westbound (down) platform on the site of the Old Oak Common Halt i.e where the public foothpath is .The loco had been allocated to Oxford in November/December 1956. It then went to Old Oak Common in March 1963 where it was withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped in February 1965 at Bird’s, Risca. (BR Database).



King Class 6016 King Edward V on a relief to the 6.10 Paddington to Birmingham train taken in the vee at Old Oak Common West Junction (the signal box can be seen in the background) on 15th June 1962. 6016 was taken from the eastbound (up) platform on the site of the Old Oak Common Halt i.e where the public foothpath is. The loco was allocated to Laira in February 1959 and reallocated to Stafford Road in July 1962 where it was withdrawn in September the same year. (SLS). It was sold for scrap to Cox and Danks at Oldbury in mid November 1963. (BR Database).



Seen previously in post #2823 King Class 6001 King Edward VII is on the 6.10 Paddington to Birmingham taken in the vee at Old Oak Common West Junction (the signal box can be seen in the background) on 15th June 1962. 6001 was taken from the eastbound (up) platform on the site of the Old Oak Common Halt i.e where the public foothpath is. The loco had been allocated to Stafford Road since 1954 and was withdrawn at the end of September 1962. (SLS). It was sold for scrap in December the same year and also went to Cox and Danks, Oldbury. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Castle Class 7037 Swindon on a down Didcot and Oxford train taken in the vee at Old Oak Common West Junction (the signal box can be seen in the background). on 15th June 1962. 7037 was taken from the westbound (down) platforms on the site of the Old Oak Common Halt i.e where the public foothpath is. The loco had, appropriately, been allocated to Swindon since July 1959 and was withdrawn from there in March 1963 (SLS) going to Cashmore’s, Newport where it was scrapped in August 1965. (BR Database).



King Class 6011 King James I on an up Inter City express from Birmingham taken from the footbridge just east of North Acton Central Line station (which can just be glimpsed under the left hand arch) on 15th June 1962. At the time the loco was allocated to Stafford Road and had been since February 1946, moving to Old Oak Common in October 1962 where it was withdrawn in December the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Swindon Works in January 1964. (BR Database).



Hall Class 5923 Colston Hall on a down Didcot and Oxford train taken in the vee at Old Oak Common West Junction (the signal box can be seen in the background) on 15th June 1962. 5923 was taken from the westbound (down) platform on the site of the Old Oak Common Halt i.e where the public foothpath . By now the loco was allocated to Oxford in November 1961 and was withdrawn in November 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped in May 1964 (BR Database) at Cox and Danks, Park Royal. (WHTS).



Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Just skipping back to post 3983, the unidentified rebuilt MN appears to have an original boiler, with the taper on the front portion, judging by the highlights, and a 5000 gallon tender. From information in the Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics (Richard Derry), only 35004 and 35006 had that combination in September 1962. As both were shedded at Salisbury, they would have regularly worked through Templecombe.
Dave.

 

[Kier Hardy]

I'm intrigued by the walkway at North Acton, shown here

https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/attachments/img3246-neg-strip-64-6011-up-inter-city-express-to-birmingham-n-acton-15-jun-62-copyright-final-jpg.224646/

Railings on both sides with a tarmac or bitumen based floor and kick boards. Surely not a public right of way, but I've never seen anything like it before.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I'm intrigued by the walkway at North Acton, shown here

When you look at an OS map there was a footbridge/footpath leading to the site of Old Oak Common Halt (off the map on the right).

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Regarding posts #4008 and #4009 - In geographic pedant mode the photos of 7008, 7037, 5923. 6016 and 6001 were taken in the vee at Old Oak Common West Junction (the signal box can be seen in the background). Whilst 6011 was taken from the footbridge just east of North Acton Central Line station (which can just be glimpsed under the left hand arch).

I have annoteted an extract NLS OS 1:1,250/1:2,500 1944-73 series map to illustrate the photo locations in relation to the area. Old Oak Common West Junction Signal Box is highlighted in blue on the right.



Edit - having looked at the photos again I think 6016 & 6001 were taken from the eastbound (up) and 7008,7037 & 5923 were taken from the westbound (down) platforms on the site of the Old Oak Common Halt i.e where the public foothpaths are.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

King Class 6011 King James I on an up Inter City express to Birmingham at North Acton on 15th June 1962. At the time the loo was alocated to Stafford Road and had been since February 1946, moving to Old Oak Common in October 1962 where it was withdrawn in December the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Swindon Works in January 1964. (BR Database).

Shouldn't it be '...on an up Inter City from Birmingham...'

As mentioned above North Acton Central Line station can just be glimpsed under the left hand arch.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Yorky Dave has pre-empted me however it was the signalling that originated my thoughts, however it has very neatly taken me to lunch time.

The recent flurry of west London pics has had me thinking, principally about the North Acton description which I wasn't sure about, and I have now tracked down some info that firmly puts the following neg numbers at Old Oak Common West.

3229, 3235, 3236, 3240, 3241, 3242, 3243, 3244, 3245, 3247.



On the far left is the Up Wycombe home signals, two searchlight stop signals routeing to the Up Relief (16) and Up Main (8), above two searchlight distant signals for OOC East. To the left of them shunt aspects to the Up Siding (26) and Up Goods (23).

To the right is the Down Wycombe backing signal routeing to the Up Siding (12), Up Goods (33), No2 Down Goods (24), Up Relief (31), Down Relief (30).

Next Right is the Up Goods home signal, which by GWR practice should have a ringed arm but I think by then alterations relating to Old Oak Common PSB may well have been happening. This routed to the Up Siding (25), Up Goods (22), Up Relief (15), Up Main (9).

Next right in the distance is the Up Main home signal (2) with OOC East distant signal under it. Immediately next to it is the Up Relief home signal (14) with OOC East distant signal under it. At the top is a junction indicator for routeing Up Relief to Up Main (4).

The two signals shown with their backs to the photgrapher are the Down Relief starting signal (100) and Down main starting signal (106), both with Friars Junction Down distant signals beneath them.

The signal with a X is obviously a replacement for the Up Main home signal to provide an overlap for the junction fouling point.

The tracks moving right from the photographer are the Up Goods, No 2 Down Goods, Up & Down Relief, Up & Down Main, and behind the train No 1 Down Goods.

Martin

 

[Roger Pound]

The 'Castle' on the Didcot -Oxford service brought back extremely distant memories of my days in the R.A.F. I was stationed at R.A.F. Abingdon at the time and if returning on a Sunday from Leicester, the easiest way was via London - and before anyone shouts why not Birmingham the connections on that route were appalling at my chosen time of travel. I must confess that all these land marks when leaving Paddington went over my head, none of them registering really. I rarely noted the motive power having a minimal, or some might even say negative, interest in anything Western. My personal choice for this journey was normally from Leicester Central on a NE/SW service. Now there was a service...........!

Once again, my most sincere thanks for bringing back some half forgotten memories of my youth, Brian. Those, indeed, were the days for the rail enthusiast.

Roger

 

[Barry37]

Castle Class 7037 Swindon on a down Didcot and Oxford train at North Acton on 15th June 1962. The loco had, appropriately, been allocated to Swindon since July 1959 and was withdrawn from there in March 1963 (SLS) going to Cashmore’s, Newport where it was scrapped in August 1965. (BR Database).

View attachment 224645

King Class 6011 King James I on an up Inter City express to Birmingham at North Acton on 15th June 1962. At the time the loo was alocated to Stafford Road and had been since February 1946, moving to Old Oak Common in October 1962 where it was withdrawn in December the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped at Swindon Works in January 1964. (BR Database).

View attachment 224646

Hall Class 5923 Colston Hall on a down Didcot and Oxford train at North Acton on 15th June 1962. By now the loco was allocated to Oxford in November 1961 and was withdrawn in November 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped in May 1964 (BR Database) at Cox and Danks, Park Royal. (WHTS).

View attachment 224647

Brian

Over on the right of the 5923 Colston Hall photo (also seen in post #4008), the second van from the right seems to be a continental vehicle, probably a Tranfesa type (though SNCF had similar ones). To its left, the open wagon is pretty likely a 21ton steel mineral, which has, for a reason unknown, doors and L/R end panels that are a different colour to the grey paint of the rest of the body.

 

[oldravendale]

Firstly a big thank you to Dave @Yorkshire Dave for all that info which locates the photos so precisely. I'll be altering the descriptions by way of an edit to correct or in some cases refine the information. Thanks also for correcting the "up" and "down" - another change which will be made. Also to Kier @Kier Hardy, Martin @Martin Shaw (thanks for attaching the photo which really helps to describe your comments) and Roger @Roger Pound for the memory which puts a real social background to these scenes.

Then to another Dave @Dave Holt for the Merchant Navy info. I'll add that into the separately attached data.

Finally to Barry @Barry37 for picking up on those two wagons. Again, safely attached to the associated data.

8750 Class 0-6-0PT 9640 on a down freight at North Acton or perhaps more properly Old Oak Common West on 15th June 1962. This loco had been allocated to Old Oak Common in December 1960, then Stafford Road in July 1963 and Oxley the following August where it was withdrawn in July 1966. (SLS). It then went to Cohen’s at Kettering where it was scrapped in November 1966. (BR Database).



Hall Class 4908 Broome Hall on a down express passing an unidentified Castle at Old Oak Common West on 15th June 1962. The Hall was allocated to Oxford in November 1961 and Didcot in August 1962 before withdrawal in November 1963. (SLS). It ten went to Cashmore’s at Newport where it was scrapped in May 1964. (BR Database).



An unidentified Castle at Old Oak Common West on 15th June 1962.



Seen previously in post #2527 is King Class 6017, King Edward IV on an up Birmingham express at Old Oak Common West on 15th June 1962. The loco’s allocation was Stafford Road and had been since 1959 and it was withdrawn the month after this photo was taken. (SLS). It was scrapped at the end of May 1963 at Cox & Danks, Oldbury. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[Dog Star]

Brian, with a pedant hat, the pannier in your last post is strictly a "8750" rather than a " 5700" , such pedantry does not deter admiration of the photos!

 

[AJC]

Interesting train behind the pannier: one of the more unusual variants of the LNER steel high, that with a wooden door, a curious-looking load in the second, but behind that, BR standard insulated meat vans (just 250 built), at least three of them. Now, they could be transporting meat - that's probably likely, in fact - but seeing as they're not a million miles from Park Royal, and many were used in beer traffic, lettered 'Ale', the load might well be Guinness.

Adam