Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Martin - now I've had time to properly absorb the contents of your post, for which I'm very grateful, you've expanded my knowledge of the electrical power supply system. Also, as far as the Modified Hall is concerned, it appears that the SLS are in error as you suggest. The Locoshed Books for April 20th 1957, October 5th 1957, May 15th 1958 and October 3rd 1959 all show 6962 to have been an 81A Old Oak Common engine. Data duly updated and retained.

Thanks, Arun, for picking up on the Westernisation of that WD.

Then thanks, Wagonman, Roger and Dave for that hugely impressive lesson about those tiny shunters. All carefully preserved in a pdf which I've put in the attachments so you can see how the data is being kept. It's still a bit clunky but as a state registered technophobe I'm quite pleased that I've been able to get this far and things can only improve. (Thanks too, Dave, for your identification of the class of Pacific on that passenger train).

Now back to the LMS, including a pair of "quite interesting" pictures.

This is Princess 46207 Princess Arthur of Connaught shorn of nameplates and in store at Willesden on 18th June 1961 looking in wonderful condition. Tim photographed this loco in the same location on 24th February 1962 as shown in post #1742 so it was sadly in store for some time. 46207 was recorded as only a few weeks out of shops by the SLS when in store at Willesden and seen on 1st April 1961 where it had been allocated on the same day. In fact it had received a heavy intermediate at Crewe over 36 days, coming out of works on 3rd December 1960 and then a light casual over 31 days coming out of works on 11th February 1961. That's about six weeks between overhaul and going in to store. We expected to see a couple of years of work out of it at least but it was reinstated at Camden in August 1961 and back to Willesden in September the same year where it was withdrawn in November. It went to Crewe Works where it was scrapped in May 1962. See post #1404 for another photo of the loco at Euston. (All BR Database and SLS).



8F 48020 at Willesden on 18th June 1961. It had been a Bletchley engine since June 1950, went to Shrewsbury in October 1963 and then Northampton in October 1964 where it was withdrawn in August 1965. (SLS). It went to Buttigieg's, Newport where it was scrapped in February 1966. (WHTS and BR Database).



Two here of Black 5 44697 with self weighing tender at Willesden on 18th June 1961. It was on the Newton Heath allocation from May 1953 and withdrawn from there in November 1967 although it spent a month on loan at Farnley Junction between August and September 1953. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped in April 1968. (BR Database).






For our trip to Germany this time there's a rather mixed bag but all still on the Rheine - Emden trip in March 1974, starting with what I believe to be an 044 2-10-0 on a train of new cars at Emden.

Edit: This is a Br 043 (oil fired). Looking at the numbers probably 043 167-6 - withdrawn from service 20/05/1977 at Rheine.



An unidentified loco on an equally unidentified train at Emden.

Edit: This is a Br 041 or 042 2-8-2 - identified by the running plate being carried across the front. Köf II in the distance on the right.



Finally a detail shot, probably a loco and train coupling up.



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

For our trip to Germany this time there's a rather mixed bag but all still on the Rheine - Emden trip in March 1974, starting with what I believe to be an 044 2-10-0 on a train of new cars at Emden.

This is a Br 043 (oil fired). Looking at the numbers probably 043 167-6 - withdrawn from service 20/05/1977 at Rheine.

An unidentified loco on an equally unidentified train at Emden.

This is a Br 041 or 042 2-8-2 - identified by the running plate being carried across the front. Köf II in the distance on the right.

 

[mickoo]

Slight digression back to Kof's, Denmark also had them, though built by Frichs in Aarhus, probably under license from German as the look very similar designs. B&W my fathers in the mid 60's, colour, mine in 2011.

As noted they can move extraordinary loads with little effort, stopping them isn't so easy if loose coupled with many a locked up wheels slide observed.





For completeness, Holland also have Kof but to their own design I believe, these are slightly different as they can be driven from the outside on the running boards, the treadle is the brake (simply stand on it), the weighted lever is direction and power control I believe is from the handles on the cab side. Some come with small cranes attached in later years as seen here. This one isn't being driven externally.



Euro anorak captured and locked away in closet

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

For completeness, Holland also have Kof but to their own design I believe, these are slightly different as they can be driven from the outside on the running boards, the treadle is the brake release (simply stand on it) and the weighted lever is the power control. Some come with small cranes attached in later years as seen here. This one isn't being driven externally.

The NS 200 class are referred to as Sik (translates as Goat) this shows how they are driven externally (photo source Langs de rails)



You can see how they drive them externally from about 1 minute in (video is in Dutch).

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Dave. And I'd not noticed that Kof in the background...

Mick - Lovely stuff to expand the info about the Kofs. Will be added to the pdf. Then thanks to Dave for expanding further. That driving from the outside - what would H & S say about that in the UK?

Jubilee 45586 Mysore and the coal plant at Willesden on 18th June 1961. The loco was shedded at Aston from 17th September 1960, Crewe North 23rd June 1962, then Crewe South on 4th August 1962 where it was withdrawn in January 1965. It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Great Bridge in April 1965.



Black 5 44867 in Willesden Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. It was at Rugby from 1948 (BR Database), then Stoke from 5th August 1961 and finally Stockport Edgeley from the beginning of December 1962 where it was withdrawn in June 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in December the same year.



This is Black 5s 45374 and 45288 in Willesden Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. 45374 had been on the Wilesden alocation since December 1960, moved to Bescot in March 1962, Aston in August 1962, Stafford in February 1965and finally Carnforth in August 1965 where it was withdrawn in November 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at McWilliams, Shettleston in July 1968. (Railway Observer).

45288 moved around a lot after leaving Willesden where it had been allocated since November 1960. It went to Rugby in September 1963, Crewe North in June 1964, Bescot in September the same year, Banbury in October 1965, Colwick in February 1966 and finally Heaton Mersey in May 1966 where it was withdrawn in November 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped at Drapers, Hull, at the beginning of April 1968. (WHTS and BR Database).





Fowler 2-6-4T 42360 in Willesden shed yard on 18th June 1961. It was allocated to Willesden in October 1958 and was withdrawn in August 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped at Crewe Works in October 1961. (WHTS and BR Database).


Fowler 4-4-0 40657 carrying a 1C, Watford shed plate at Willesden in the long shed on 18th June 1961. It had been at Watford since December 1960 and was withdrawn in October 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Derby Works in December 1962. (WHTS and BR Database).



A selection of photos here all in Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974, one loco unidentified probably at Emden Station and the remainder from the train.

Edit. Probably 012 063-4.












This one is identified as a parcels handling depot but no evidence of the location.

Edit. This is Lingen (Ems) Güterbahnhof (Güterabfertigung). Source Denkmalatlas Niedersachsen. Güterabfertigung translates as Goods clearance



Brian

 

[mickoo]

A selection of photos here all in Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974, one loco unidentified probably at Emden Station and the remainder from the train.

View attachment 208871

Fairly confident this is 012 063-4, the last four digits can be read and the rubber bellows came with the Pacifics and their five wheel tenders, specifically only the 01.10 class (a three cylinder version of the 01). Note the pipework at the top left of the tender, that is only relevant to the oil burning 012 tenders and is the feed pipes to the actuators that lift the oil filling hatches on top of the tender, thereby negating the risk of an engineer having to climb up onto what soon became a very slippery surface.

This is an 043 but the design and principle are near identical. Note steam, these tanks, the oil and supply lines were heated.



012 063-4 was an engine based at Bw Rheine and the photo is taken at Rheine looking/heading north, probably to Emden, so the jigsaw is almost complete.

Going back to Tims photo of the engine coupling to the train, I'd wager heavily it's the same engine, but whatever engine it is, it's an oil burner.

Following from the above dialogue, access to the top of the tank was moved to ground level and a oil line connector was fitted, you can see it in Tims photos at bottom right, see here below being used to fill up at Bw Rheine

 

[michael080]

Following from the above dialogue, access to the top of the tank was moved to ground level and a oil line connector was fitted, you can see it in Tims photos at bottom right, see here below being used to fill up at Bw Rheine

Moving the filler to ground level was a lot more convenient for the workers, but it lead frequently to overfilling. This is why these oil burner tenders were very grubby. Certainly not a good idea to stand close by with a white shirt

 

[mickoo]

Moving the filler to ground level was a lot more convenient for the workers, but it lead frequently to overfilling. This is why these oil burner tenders were very grubby. Certainly not a good idea to stand close by with a white shirt

I can imagine and I find that very low 'Technik' not to have some sort of level indicator, the sort of slap dash way we'd do it in the UK.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

This one is identified as a parcels handling depot but no evidence of the location.

This is Lingen (Ems) Güterbahnhof (Güterabfertigung). Source Denkmalatlas Niedersachsen. Güterabfertigung translates as Goods clearance

A selection of photos here all in Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974, one loco unidentified probably at Emden Station and the remainder from the train.

I can confirm @mickoo 's comment that this is 012 063-4 at Rheine. The following trio of photos taken from the train are departing Rheine heading north (note the catenary - it only went as far as Salzbergen at this date. It hadn't reached Emden). The road on the left of the trio is Friedenstraße, Rheine.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Moving the filler to ground level was a lot more convenient for the workers, but it lead frequently to overfilling. This is why these oil burner tenders were very grubby. Certainly not a good idea to stand close by with a white shirt

White shirt and polished shoes.

 

[Arun Sharma]

White shirt and polished shoes.

Aber natürlich, Alles in ordnung!

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Mick - Lovely stuff to expand the info about the Kofs. Will be added to the pdf. Then thanks to Dave for expanding further. That driving from the outside - what would H & S say about that in the UK?

UK H & S would say the same if this occured on British Railways - this screengrab from the Freilassing Bhf webcam shows the Rangier (shunter) standing on the steps of the leading wagon remotely controlling the Br 294 at the rear. The train is being pushed out of the yard, crossing the main Salzburg-München line to go up the Berchtesgaden branch.

The containers transport household and commercial waste from various locations in Südsostbayern to a waste-to-energy plant in Burgkirchen, Bayern. Where it is incinerated to produce electricity and heat.

 

[mickoo]

This is Lingen (Ems) Güterbahnhof (Güterabfertigung). Source Denkmalatlas Niedersachsen. Güterabfertigung translates as Goods clearance

View attachment 208900



I can confirm @mickoo 's comment that this is 012 063-4 at Rheine. The following trio of photos taken from the train are departing Rheine heading north (note the catenary - it only went as far as Salzbergen at this date. It hadn't reached Emden). The road on the left of the trio is Friedenstraße, Rheine.

I discounted Lingen, no period photos to match and it didn't seem to 'feel' right, I thought it might have been Leschede but again didn't feel right, so after 40 mins zooming around Google maps I gave up

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I discounted Lingen, no period photos to match and it didn't seem to 'feel' right, I thought it might have been Leschede but again didn't feel right, so after 40 mins zooming around Google maps I gave up

I started by searching alte Bahnhof and alte Güterbahnhof down the line from Emden. Did come across this Güterbahnhof at Papenburg converted to a restaurant. Which is south of Emden and with outdoor seating next to the main line - shame they used frosted glass..... probably didn't want passengers gawping at the diners.

 

[mickoo]

I started by searching alte Bahnhof and alte Güterbahnhof down the line from Emden. Did come across this Güterbahnhof at Papenburg converted to a restaurant. Which is south of Emden and with outdoor seating next to the main line - shame they used frosted glass..... probably didn't want passengers gawping at the diners.

View attachment 208903

I took the hard way and flew 'virtually' down the line from Rheine to Emden, very little of the old infrastructure remains so it was a case of looking for something with a station and level crossing in the distance and had the right feel before searching Google for historic images. Lingen Hbf was one or Lingen Hauptbahnhof, neither flagged the image you found, bloody useless Google

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I took the hard way and flew 'virtually' down the line from Rheine to Emden, very little of the old infrastructure remains so it was a case of looking for something with a station and level crossing in the distance and had the right feel before searching Google for historic images. Lingen Hbf was one or Lingen Hauptbahnhof, neither flagged the image you found, bloody useless Google

As I was going down the line I searched Lingen Güterbahnhof and looked at the images then an aerial photo held by the Emslandmuseum Lingen popped up which sent me down some rabbit holes to the Denkmalatlas Niedersachsen site which provided the final proof.

 

[AJC]

UK H & S would say the same if this occured on British Railways - this screengrab from the Freilassing Bhf webcam shows the Rangier (shunter) standing on the steps of the leading wagon remotely controlling the Br 294 at the rear. The train is being pushed out of the yard, crossing the main Salzburg-München line to go up the Berchtesgaden branch.

The containers transport household and commercial waste from various locations in Südsostbayern to a waste-to-energy plant in Burgkirchen, Bayern. Where it is incinerated to produce electricity and heat.

View attachment 208902

Nothing so very unusual about that - EWS had a small fleet of radio controlled 08s (GBRF do/did as well) for specific work in South Wales, at Margam, possibly? Going way back, narrow gauge Rustons had the facility to be driven while walking alongside built in.

Going back to 60003 at Hornsey, the vehicle behind the loco is not the NER dynamometer car. Instead it’s an ex-LNWR vehicle, I think. I’ll have a proper look when I’m on a bigger screen and not feeding a baby.

EDIT: Now it's daylight and I have the laptop, I'm reasonably convinced that the LNWR vehicle is either 5154 (a generator car - compartment side: London & North Western Railway 1st class corridor brake no. 5154 | Science Museum Group Collection) or 5155 (BFK) - corridor side: London & North Western Railway 1st class corridor brake no. 5155 | Science Museum Group Collection

Both vehicles survive as part of the NRM collection: LNWR 303 Brake Corridor First, later to Royal Train built 1905 - LNWR 310 Brake Corridor First, later in Royal Train built 1905

Adam

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

This is described as the Royal Train returning from York hauled by A4 60003 Andrew K McCosh at Hornsey Sation on 19th June 1961. Is that a dynamometer car behind the tender or part of the Royal Train consist? 60003 had been a Kings Cross engine since 1957 and was withdrawn at the end of December 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster in January 1963. (BR Database).

A check of the Royal Train on 18-19th June 1961 (NRM Royal Trains archive list attached, page 48) reveals the itenary as - Windsor and Eton Central to Queeniborough Sidings to Corby to Stamford Town to KX conveying HM the Queen and HRH the Duke of Edinburgh. Therefore the train is returning from Stamford.

This is commensurate with two photos either taken or acquired by my grandfather at Stamford Town (Mid) on the same day. At the time my grandfather was the manager of Stamford Gas Works. (photos scanned from colour prints)



Here departing Stamford Town (Mid) towards Peterborough to join the GN main line to KX. The Midland tracks are in the foreground and the GN tracks in the background.

 

[oldravendale]

What a lot to catch up on and enter in to my new filing system. That took a lot of yesterday afternoon, hence no new pictures, but I'm now confident that all these details have to be secure. A word of thanks for all the "Likes" these photos engender. There clearly remains enthusiasm for these old pictures and I'll continue for as long as that remains.

So...Mickoo - thanks for researching and then providing details of the oil burning 012, together with Michael's comment. Then, on to Yorkshire Dave. Thanks so much for researching the location of that photo and identifying the geography concerning the others. Thanks to you as well, Mick, for your persistence in the fact of adversity.

Then, Dave, the remotely controlled shunter - thanks for that.

Adam - as ever thanks for yours. I was aware of the remotely controlled 08s but if I was a H & S specialist - which I'm not - I'd be more concerned about the individual actually driving the loco while clinging on outside. A valid practical solution but not without some risks, I'd have thought. Thanks too for your wok on identifying the vehicle in the Royal train. Excellent! And then Yorkshire Dave for providing photos of the same train and correcting the route details. I reckon Tim must have made an assumption about that photo in the title he provided.

All this and the additional data about the Kof shunters from around the world has now been added to that particular file and the pdf is now attached in its updated format. If there's interest in the others as I do them - and the over-riding factor in creating a file is whether there are photos, maps or drawings, or simply too much information for the space available and which I otherwise can't add to the Properties/Details.

Pictures will follow a bit later today but at the moment I have to go out for my constitutional and work out a route to the Jaguar specialist the other side of Aylesbury. For your info everything mechanical is fine but I had the air con regassed last autumn and now get condensate inside the car. The people who did the work can't find the leak but have made a recommendation...

Brian

 

[Andy Deane]

For those that would like one one of the Dutch shunters a 3d print is available from Printables.com

Nederlandse Spoorwegen Locomotor #362 - Serie 200-300 - SIK - Spoor 1 / 1:32​

It seems to be single print for most of the body with detail additions.

Andy