Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Barry37]

Thanks, David for the question about the tender pipes. Thanks then to Yorkshire Dave and Martin for your responses. All incorporated in to a pdf to preserve the info and photo (duly endorsed "copyright".

Barry - thanks for yours about the 9Fs.

David W - Such a short question but such an interesting response, so again thanks to Arun and Yorkshire Dave. All now in a pdf which I'll publish once I'm confident there's no more forthcoming on the subject.

B1 61159 on a down Cleethorpes train at Harringay West on 22nd July 1961. This was allocated to Immingham in June 1954 and withdrawn from there in September 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped in November the same year at Cashmore's, Great Bridge. (BR Database).

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A3 60110 Robert the Devil on the Tees-Tyne Pullman arrival at Kings Cross on 26th July 1961. It's carrying a 34A Kings Cross shed plate where it had been allocated since July 1957 and from where it was withdrawn in May 1963. (SLS). It entered Doncaster Works on 11th June 1963 where it was cut up in the same month. (Yeadons and WHTS). I don't have details of when the smoke deflectors were fitted.

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A1 60133 Pommern on the 6.12 Leeds Departure from Kings Cross on 26th July 1961. This had been a Copley Hill, Leeds engine since June 1950, went to Ardsley in September 1964 and was withdrawn from there in June 1965. (SLS). It was sold to Clayton & Davie, Dunston for scrap in August 1965. (BR Database).

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In Germany on the Rheine - Emden excursion in March 1974 are a series of shed scenes and a cracker of a shot of the driver of one of the locos at Emden. Very Teutonic!

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As these shots demonstrate Tim was not scared to take what we'd now consider art shots and in many cases these are possibly the most interesting. I guess that, for some reason or another all those of us with cameras at the time took one shot of a fire grate, although rarely with a fire in it! My personal one was on a rebuilt West Country.

Brian

Towards the end of the 1990s, 70000 Britannia had failed on a railtour with a boiler tube issue* , and was at Bishops Lydeard(WSR). The fire was alight - I forget whether a repair had been done, or the faulty tube was still to be identified.
It was something of a surprise to see how big the grate area was!
Previous cab intrusions (Barry scrapyard) had been with various dead locos, that would have been rather dark in the firebox.
* it was a cross-threaded tube nut, I think.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Andy. There will be a few people who'll find that very tempting I'm sure. It also spreads the wings of this somewhat parochial thread to pastures new. See what a few photos of German trains has done?

Barry - thanks to you too. You obvious considered a photo of a firebox, didn't you? Come on - own up. I actually used flash for mine as it was a bit dark. OK. Give in. Here's mine. 34104 Firebox. Eastleigh Shed. 23 May 1965. And yes, those grates were a bit big.



For today we're initially going back a bit as I missed one and not, by Tim's standards, a very good one, so here it is now.

Jubilee 45682 Trafalgar arriving at Euston on 5th August 1961. This had been on the Bristol Barrow Road allocation since November 1957 and was withdrawn from there in June 1964. (SLS). It It was scrapped at Bird's, Swansea, around the end of the year according to WHTS or in August 1964 according to BR Database although no scrap yard location is quoted.



G2A 0-8-0 49314 in Willesden Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. It was at Nuneaton from March 1955, then Springs Branch Wigan from May 1962 where it was withdrawn in December. (SLS). BR Database can tell us nothing about disposal but according to WHTS it met its end at Crewe Works although there is no scrapping date.



8F 48114 in Willesden Roundhouse and on the turntable on 18th June 1961. It was at Kirkby in Ashfield from 1947, then Springs Brnch, Wigan, in December 1964 where it was withdrawn in April 1967. (SLS). However, the Locoshed Books advise it was at Edge Hill in April 1957, Kirkby in Ashfield in October 1957, March 1958, December 1959, October 1963 and May 1964. WHTS advises that it was in store at Springs Branch April to August 1967 according to the LCGB. It was then observed right through to September 1967 so would agree that it was scrapped in September 1967 at Cashmore's, Great Bridge. (BR Database).

Edit: Note from Martin Shaw correcting allocations shown above.
48114 Northampton 18/3/39, Toton 23/3/40, Northampton 26/10/40, Kirkby 11/10/41, Heaton Mersey 5/7/47, Kirkby 19/7/47,
Springs Branch 26/12/64, Wdn w/e 1/4/67. From Irwell Book of.

The two weeks at Heaton Mersey seems a bit strange, especially since there is no recorded works activity at that time.





A gathering round the turntable at Willesden on 18th June 1961 of Black 5s 45374 and 45288 with 8F 48114. The two Back 5s were recently in the same location on the same date in post #3045 where details can be found, and details for the 8F are above.



Germany and Rheine - Emden in March 1974 again. Apart from the last two here these are again photos from the train so I suspect from Rheine going north considering the lack of catenary which as Yorkshire Dave pointed out only went as far as Salzbergen at this date. It hadn't reached Emden. The precise locations are unknown.



A train in the opposite direction headed by another Pacific which can be identified as 012 061 but with the last digit indistinct.

Edit:
Loco 012 061 the checksum digit is 8

You can work this out by the following, take the engine number and multiply each digit by alternate 1,2,1,2 etc

012061
121212
=
022062

Add these up = 12, take the last digit away from 10, in this case 10-2, which equals 8.

The engine number is 012 061-8.



Between Rheine and Emden again.



Location is Meppen although I can't read a number. However I suspect this is oil burner pacific 012 063-4 again.





Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

48114 Northampton 18/3/39, Toton 23/3/40, Northampton 26/10/40, Kirkby 11/10/41, Heaton Mersey 5/7/47, Kirkby 19/7/47,
Springs Branch 26/12/64, Wdn w/e 1/4/67. From Irwell Book of.

The two weeks at Heaton Mersey seems a bit strange, especially since there is no recorded works activity at that time.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks and interesting, Martin, as usually a bit of digging finds that the "Book of" reflects the Locoshed Books and on reviewing so it does here!. I'll correct my write up. The "Book of" reference to Heaton Mersey is reflected in the SLS allocations according to BR Database so I suggest that the SLS has been used as the source in the publication. BR Database makes no mention of an allocation to Heaton Mersey.

Brian

 

[mickoo]

The first station is Lingen as identified by Yorkshire Dave but a few hundred metres on toward the level crossing
The level crossing is.....are these photos in order? Might help with tracking down the location.
The last station with the photo shoot is Meppen.

Loco 012 061 the checksum digit is 8

You can work this out by the following, take the engine number and multiply each digit by alternate 1,2,1,2 etc

012061
121212
=
022062

Add these up = 12, take the last digit away from 10, in this case 10-2, which equals 8.

The engine number is 012 061-8.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The first station is Lingen as identified by Yorkshire Dave but a few hundred metres on toward the level crossing
The level crossing is.....are these photos in order? Might help with tracking down the location.
The last station with the photo shoot is Meppen.

Loco 012 061 the checksum digit is 8

You can work this out by the following, take the engine number and multiply each digit by alternate 1,2,1,2 etc

012061
121212
=
022062

Add these up = 12, take the last digit away from 10, in this case 10-2, which equals 8.

The engine number is 012 061-8.

Some of these are hard work as there has been so much building since the 1970s and in most cases totally obliterating old infrastructure. So much so in some cases you can't even use satellite imagary to work out what was there.

All heading north from Rheine

First station - agree with Lingen (Ems) and the Bahnübergang is Georgetraße - the footbridge has now gone as the street has become more residential.

Level crossing - I think we are still in Lingen (Ems) as the road sign points to Bremen and to an industrial area. I would go on to say this is at the next Bahnübergang which would have been Haselünner Straße. When you enlarge the area around the road signs it would appear the street name under Bremen and Industriegebiet is Haselünner Straße.

I have tracked down an old Stadtplan (street plan) of Lingen (Ems) and marked out the probable old route of Haselünner Straße in blue and indicated where the first and second photos were taken on this Google Maps extract. The route appears to join up with what is now Alte Haselünner Straße close to where the second photo was taken. This area has been totally rebuilt with a new road and overbridge route L48 (L48 - one of the Met E class tanks ).



Last station - agree with Meppen - It's the only one down the line where the Bahnübergang splits the platform and today the crossing (Bahnübergang) has been replaced by an underpass. And the station name on the part of the platform beyond the crossing matches.

 

[mickoo]

Yeah that's a hard call on that one, it's changed a lot.

The other one on the LH rising curve I think is north Lingen, this hasn't changed so much.

Google earth does show some broad elevations and the line crests just after the crossing.



Certainly the topography fits with the shallow cutting before the crossing and the side road running parallel just before the crossing, I think the houses are possibly newer than Tims photo.



There's a branch to the right which I'm not sure can be seen on Tim's photo, I think it's there but it might be a case of saying it's there to prove this is the location sort of thing, an enlargement might show some sort of ground works with a diverging line. But I'm fairly confident it north Lingen and Schwazer Weg road crossing.

The street view does also show the two large swept bend street lights on Jagerstrausse



And the taller one beyond the crossing with a more angular bend



These both match an enlargement of Tim's photo.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Nice one @mickoo . There is a branch there which must have served something. There is an industrial estate there now with new buildings and looking at street view at the crossings it appears somewhat disused. However the track connection is still there which is evident in your penultimate screenshot pic.

The block paving road at Jägerstraße is a bit of a giveaway of new development.

 

[mickoo]

Nice one @mickoo . There is a branch there which must have served something. There is an industrial estate there now with new buildings and looking at street view at the crossings it appears somewhat disused. However the track connection is still there which is evident in your penultimate screenshot pic.

The block paving road at Jägerstraße is a bit of a giveaway of new development.

Cheers

Block paving, not so, it's older than you think in Europe. A lot of areas in Denmark are block paved, a hell of a lot and I remember it back in the late 70's and early 80's and some of my fathers photos from the 60's onward have block paved streets in Denmark, lots of places were ripping up cobbles and replacing with block paving, so much so it paid handsomely for my grandfather who owned a gardening and landscaping business. We had stacks of sand and bricks, paving etc to play with on holiday.

It was also very common at one time on platforms in Germany and Denmark.

I'll wager heavily that's the same road and pavement then as it is now, even has the same camber, corner and concrete fence posts today.

 

[oldravendale]

Mick - did you work out the loco numbering or woz you trained? I'll try to remember for the future but there has been so much (for me) new stuff come out of this thread that I'll probably forget. Hopefully my new filing system will be enabling in that regard.

Then, to Mick and Yorkshire Dave. My enormous thanks for dealing with the geography of those photos. Far more than I could ever have expected. I apologise, Mick, for not scanning these photos in frame order - in fact, in retrospect I could have made every contributor's life easier if I'd done just that from the start. The benefit of random scanning was, to my eyes, the variety that would accrue. Additionally, at the time I started I was scanning specific negative strips and slides for Tim so everything was way out of order from the beginning. (BTW, those early scans which Tim always considered his best photographs will appear on here once we've finished the "They're all rubbish, you know" photos . How I wish Tim could have seen the feed back...)

Here's some figures relating to the history of this thread. The whole series of Tim's pre-1968 photos, with the very occasional foray in to blue diesels have been scanned. That's a total of 3915 rubbish images, a few of which are peripheral - cars, buses, traction engines and architecture and will be presented as interesting "extras" to the main thrust of the thread. There remain 1214 to be seen. Then there are another 425 black & white negatives from which Tim wanted a selection printed. While scanned those are yet to be seen. There are 785 colour slides which are scanned and I've not even thought about showing on here yet. I now have two crates of 35mm (mainly) colour slides which I'm actively scanning. Many of these are family photos so of no interest to us, but a large number are of railway subjects, many post 1968, which will eventually get catalogued and see the light of day although of those probably half are on heritage railways.

The thread has been running since October 2020. It was in about April 2021 that I realised posting a single image at a time was simply never going to allow Tim's collection to be completed so after that time I've tried to do about three per post and currently, with the German photos, a lot more than that. On this basis I reckon we still have something like another three years to go - or as long as there remains interest.

That discounts any interesting photos yet to materialise out of the 35m slides or, indeed, my own collection which is minute by comparison.

"God (whoever she may be) put me on this earth to complete a certain number of projects and right now I'm so far behind that I will never die".

Moving on...

94XX 0-6-0PT 8458 in Old Oak Common Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. This was allocated to Old Oak in November 1960 and withdrawn at the end of August 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Swindon in early November 1963. (WHTS).



43XX 2-6-0 6324 in Old Oak Common Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. Note the "GWR" on the tender of the second photo. At the time it was a Reading loco and had been from the end of December 1957. It was withdrawn at the end of April 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Swindon in August the same year.





57XX 0-6-0PTs 9658 and 9704 in Old Oak Common Roundhouse on 18th June 1961. Both are at their home shed, 9658 having been there since new at the end of December 1946. It moved to Stafford Road in July 1963, then Oxley a week later, being withdrawn in October 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Great Bridge, in April 1967. (BR Database).

Condensing 57XX 9704 - according to WHTS it spent from 1957 to Nov 63 at Old Oak Common and then stored withdrawn there until Feb 64. Then stored at Southall until scrapped at Great Bridge by Cashmores in June 1964.

9704 New to Old Oak 10/33.
Martin



A very mixed bag of Germany Rheine - Emden photos in March 1974 here. I suspect this first one may well be the train hauled by the loco in the last shot of the preceding post disappearing in to the distance at Meppen.



Oil fired 2-8-2 042 271-7 at Meppen in March 1974. This is probably an out of sequence photo of the breakdown train at Meppen shown in previous posts. It looks s though the driver is leaning out of his cab, perhaps concerned about the adjacency of photographers between the running lines.



Four frankly scruffy photos in the Rheine - Emden March 1974 series of the un-electrified line which puts these at the Emden end of things. I suspect the qualities of the camera were rather overtaken by the gloomy nature of the weather at the time. The quality will be much improved in the next post!









One of my resources, Rail UK, appears to have gone AWOL. The site is said to be under maintenance - check back tomorrow - but I've been doing that for a week and it appears to have disappeared, which is a great shame. There is a new site called railuk.com which is current railway affairs. Has it nicked or bought the RailUK site name. I wonder.

Brian

 

[Osgood]

Those British ones above - rubbish pics, especially the 43xx

 

[mickoo]

Brian, the loco numbering is just something you know if you're into German railways, it's a simple calculation, not secret and readily found on the internet, though mine was from way back in the early 80's (long before the internet) in a German railway book my dad bought in Denmark.

The first shot is still Meppen, much easier to work out now the bleedin train has gone , the rest of the countryside ones are going to be around that area I suspect, then I'll guess they went back to Meppen to get another train to Emden.

The shop on the right is now a residential abode by the look of things and the level crossing (immediately to our left) has been truncated and as Dave note, replaced with a new dual carriageway underpass a few hundred metres on.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Continuing the Rheine - Emden trip in March 1974 four shots here of coal fired 2-10-0 044 199-8 at Emden.

Just revisited these from post #3,024 and they are at the south end of Meppen. The first two are looking back northwards Meppen Bahnhof and the last two looking south towards Lingen (Ems)

Back to Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 and an unidentified pacific passes at Emden on a passenger train. I suspect of particular interest here will be the little loco peaking in on the left hand side of the photo. Details of the type and use thereof will be valued.

Another interesting series of shots featuring oil fired 2-8-2 042 271-7 on a breakdown train at Emden in the Germany Rheine - Emden series of March 1974.

Again these six in post #3,036 are at Meppen.

Germany again now and I'm guessing this is Emden again in March 1974.

This one from post #3,024 is Meppen Güterbahnhof and a streetview below.



Which today is a Zahnärzte (dental practice). Now there's a dentist you wouldn't mind visiting

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The first shot is still Meppen, much easier to work out now the bleedin train has gone , the rest of the countryside ones are going to be around that area I suspect, then I'll guess they went back to Meppen to get another train to Emden.

The picture below is also Meppen - I went back and revisited posts #3,024 and #3,036.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Four frankly scruffy photos in the Rheine - Emden March 1974 series of the un-electrified line which puts these at the Emden end of things. I suspect the qualities of the camera were rather overtaken by the gloomy nature of the weather at the time. The quality will be much improved in the next post!

Like @mickoo I rather think these were taken in the same area with the tour group staying locally as there are quite a number of photos taken around Meppen.

 

[mickoo]

which today is a Zahnärzte (dental practice). Now there's a dentist you wouldn't mind visiting

View attachment 209134

You're welcome to the bearded one

 

[mickoo]

Just revisited these from post #3,024 and they are at the south end of Meppen. The first two are looking back northwards Meppen Bahnhof and the last two looking south towards Lingen (Ems)



Again these six in post #3,036 are at Meppen.



This one from post #3,024 is Meppen Güterbahnhof and a streetview below.

View attachment 209133

Which today is a Zahnärzte (dental practice). Now there's a dentist you wouldn't mind visiting

View attachment 209134

Good sleuthing , can't remember the last time I had so much fun on WT, far better than the times crossword

I think you're right, they must have stayed here I reckon, there's far too much going on for it all to be a one day trip.

 

[Arun Sharma]

I think the loco with 9658 is actually 9704 rather than 9700.
According to WHTS it spent from 1957 to Nov 63 at Old Oak Common and then stored withdrawn there until Feb 64. Then stored at Southall until scrapped at Great Bridge by Cashmores in June 1964

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

can't remember the last time I had so much fun on WT, far better than the times crossword

It has been good fun flying up and down the Emslandstrecke.......certainly better than the day job.

 

[Martin Shaw]

9704 New to Old Oak 10/33.
Martin