Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Alan]

Really like the second photo.

 

[Martin Shaw]

I could be well wrong here but is the train with two 350hp shunters as late as 1982. I ask because it has a brake van at the rear with un or semi fitted side lamps and tail lamp, and I think unfitted workings had finished by then. Whatever it's obviously a local trip working, not going far on the main line at 15mph.

Also uncertainly I think the DMU is a class 108.

Regards
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for the comments, Martin. In the absence of other info I'll go for the DMU being a Class 108. As for the date of the photo of the two 350hp shunters you may be correct in questioning that. I've looked again at Tim's description for all the photos so far and those particular ones are stated as being 1982 but a bit later in the set the date is "probably 1982". I've tried to find definitive info about when the last unfitted trains ran on BR but that's proving surprisingly difficult. There is just a suggestion in one of the forums that the last could have been as late as 1990 but there's no confirmation of that. It'll be very helpful to have confirmation.

Continuing the same set we have MGRs from Worksop to ECML probably 1982. This features 47374, the erstwhile D1893. It's allocation was Huddersfield Hillhouse and it was withdrawn at the end of July 1992 going to C F Booth at Rotherham where it was cut up in September 1994. (BR Database).



Next is MGRs heading to Worksop, also probably in 1982. In this case the loco is an unidentified Class 56.



MGRs From Worksop to ECML Probably 1982. The loco is 47375, previously D1894. It looks as though it was at Knottingly from 1974 and is possibly still in service. (BR Database). Rail UK advises it was withdrawn on 30 April 2009 and reinstated on 31 July 2009.



MGRs From Worksop to ECML Probably 1982. The loco is 56082. According to Rail UK this was withdrawn on 30 September 2010 from EMR Kingsbury, being re-registered on 31 August 2013.



Brian

 

[Overseer]

Everything about the double headed 08 train is wrong, although it obviously happened. Apart from the two 08s and brakevan, the rear half of the train looks like red vacuum braked rebodied dia. 1/108 16T, the front half is grey rebodied 108s apart from one original and what looks like a riveted 16 tonner, then in amongst the hoppers is a single HAA. And they all look loaded. Most odd, or was it a regular occurrence?

 

[Genghis]

Everything about the double headed 08 train is wrong, although it obviously happened. Apart from the two 08s and brakevan, the rear half of the train looks like red vacuum braked rebodied dia. 1/108 16T, the front half is grey rebodied 108s apart from one original and what looks like a riveted 16 tonner, then in amongst the hoppers is a single HAA. And they all look loaded. Most odd, or was it a regular occurrence?

I agree, it does seem odd. I wonder if the two 08's were pressed into action due to lack of availability of a 56 or whether it was a positioning move to get the 08's to a location where required for shunting.

My recollection is that the last unfitted pick up trains ran in South Wales. When Eurostar was in development they I think wanted class 9 to denote High Speed Trains, but WR objected. Of course, of the two 08's in the picture were running as a class 8 then this comment is superfluous except to point out that the headcodes were still required in the early 90's.

I have found reference to unfitted freight running in Swansea until 1987 and Spondon (Derby) until the late 80's. I think 1987 would be a good candidate for the last year of reguar unfitted workings.

 

[mth]

As a trainee Guard at Bristol we still had class 9 trains in 1989. Mainly becouse of air only wagons running in Vacuum trains.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you all for such excellent follow up info and, it has to be said, further questions. This is surely a wonderful opportunity to recreate the working on a model railway and wait for the know-alls to advise you that the working could never have happened because of one reason or another. Then produce the photo. Your additional data has been added.

The first for today is a pair of unidentified Class 20s on a train of minerals in 1982. Again it's complete with brake van suggesting that it's loose coupled.



Now to North London and a line not often photographed at Willesden High Level. This again 1982 and an unidentified Class 47 approaches.



In the same location, Willesden High Level and in 1982 a Class 501 on the Broad Street line.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Last week I collected several thousand more photos from Tim's widow. There's still at least one large plastic box to collect which I was unable to fit in the car! It's worth saying at this point that only a minority are railway subjects.

We're off in a new direction as I'm looking for help in creating archival storage for some of Tim's photos.

All the black and white negatives are fine, all in protective sleeves.

The 35mm slides are also OK. Slide storage and mounting materials for this size are freely available.

The problem is finding storage for 120 size mounted slides. There are quite a few (not counted yet but a couple of hundred or so), some of which are of excellent quality. In many cases the original mounts are deteriorating and will need replacement and I've located a good source of suitable strong glassless mounts. However storage boxes are a different matter. There are any number of 35mm storage boxes but I can find nothing for 120 size, even in the so called "archival storage" sites. This has come as something of a surprise to me, as 120 size slides were quite reasonably popular and there must be quite a few people now looking to archive their collections.

Maybe I'm simply entering incorrect search terms and I'll be most grateful for some help in actually proving - or otherwise - that 120 slide boxes no longer exist. If anyone tracks down a supplier please let me know.

In the fullness of time this selection will be scanned but as we're only about half way through the black and white photos it'll be a while before the colour slides will be available for inspection (except for some less than perfect shots at York in the '80s which will be coming up quite soon).

Brian

 

[daifly]

Brian

I don’t need to tell you that ‘120‘ film tells us nothing about the aspect ratio of the slides that you want to store. What size are the mounted slides please? There are a lot of options potentially.

Dave

 

[JimG]

The actual frame size would be 56mm x 56mm

120 film - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

so the slide holders will probably be about 60mm x 60mm

The square format was most popular, set by Rollieflex, etc.

Making me feel old Dave when you seem to profess ignorance about the film size.

Jim.

 

[daifly]

The actual frame size would be 56mm x 56mm

120 film - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

so the slide holders will probably be about 60mm x 60mm

The square format was most popular, set by Rollieflex, etc.

Making me feel old Dave when you seem to profess ignorance about the film size.

Jim.

Jim

I know the width of the film. Different cameras had different aspect ratios for their output. From 6 x 6 square, 6 x 7, 6 x 8 and 6 x 9. Larger formats were used in panoramic cameras. My own camera of the day was a 6 x 7 if I remember correctly. It was over 60 years ago. Hence my question.

Dave

 

[Paul Tomlinson]

One option, if they are "Two-and-a-quarter-square" or 6x6, would be to store them in sheets like this :

120 film Negative storage binder page 12no. 60x60mm

Holds twelve 6x6cm frames of 120 mounted or unmounted transparencies or negatives.

www.preservationequipment.com

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

You might be struggling with 120 slide storage boxes however this company (which @Paul Tomlinson has alluded to above) have 120 film strip negative storage boxes. May be worth a look.

Film, Negative & Slide Storage

 

[Heather Kay]

I wonder if anything from the Really Useful Box range might suit? I find the range, um, really useful.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks all for your suggestions.

You are quite right, Dave, to question the format. These are standard Rollei square format, called in my day "2 1/4" square".

I'm now going to look at the suggestions..... I'll report back.

Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The first for today is a pair of unidentified Class 20s on a train of minerals in 1982. Again it's complete with brake van suggesting that it's loose coupled.

These three were taken at Mansfield Colliery Junction. The buildings in the background of the first image was Ratcher Hill Quarry. The train could have originated from any one of the collieries in the area: Mansfield, Bilsthorpe, Blidworth, Clipstone or Rufford.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I don't know quite what to make of these photos but I'll put them up and see what feedback I get.

These are 08255 and 08244 on MGRs heading to Worksop in 1982. I'd no idea that these were used in pairs (not multiple as each appears to have a driver) on freight trains of any sort. 08255 was introduced as 13325, then D3325 before numbering as an 08. In 1982 it was a Shirebrook loco and was withdrawn from there in October 1984 going to Doncaster Works for scrapping which occurred in March 1986. 08244 was 13314 and then D3314. It was a Tinsley loco and was withdrawn in early May 1986 whence it went to C F Booth at Rotherham where it was cut up in November 1989.

These set of photos were taken at Manton Viaduct where it crosses the Chesterfield Canal.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks again to everyone, and a gold star to Paul and Yorkie Dave. Initially I looked at that binder page and thought it'd be fine for negs or unmounted slides, but on reading the details it'll take mounted slides as well. It's a good alternative to a slide box (although I, personally, prefer a box which allows some air circulation). However these sleeves can be held in a handy ring file folder which makes storage relatively easy.

Heather - I use those boxes all the time. Good they are too. However there's nothing I've found which precisely matches the needs. Great boxes though.

After a lifetime in photography I thought I could answer most questions but it took WT to solve this one. Bless you all.

Yorkie Dave. Splendid info about the 08 and other photos. Thanks for building up the info.

It's when we do stuff like this that I particularly miss Tim. He was always delighted to hear that there are so many people interested in the heritage he recorded.

Brian

 

[Heather Kay]

I use those boxes all the time. Good they are too.

I mostly use them for storing model aircraft, but they have so many storage uses round the house.

 

[oldravendale]

Here's one of my favourite shots - in fact the first two are pretty good. The first is LT 1938 stock on the Bakerloo line, heading for (and very near) Stonebridge Park. I used the Bakerloo for many years to get to the smoke and rode these tube trains innumerable times, never thinking of them as worth a photo. The date is 1982 and it's passing Willesden TMD. On the right hand side of shot is an overhead wiring train, doubtless retained at Willesden for maintenance.



Back to Willesden High Level, again in 1982, and a Class 501 heading for Richmond on the North London Line. Again familiar stock to me as I used it many times to travel from Harrow & Wealdstone to Queens Park for school swimming lessons.



1982, and as Yorkie Dave pointed out, Manton Viaduct where it crosses the Chesterfield Canal and MGRs From Worksop to ECML in 1982. Loco is 56086. According to Rail UK it was withdrawn at the end of September 2008 and sold to Shackerstone. It was reinstated at the very end of 2011, or maybe August 2012 and sold to Europhoenix.



Again at Manton Viaduct where it crosses the Chesterfield Canal two light class 20s, Worksop area. 1982. I read these as 20092 and 20017. 20092 was born as D8092 and, according to Rail UK was withdrawn on 5 December 1982 and reinstated on 17 April 1983. It remains in service. 20017 was D8017, withdrawn from Tinsley in December 1982 and cut up at Crewe Loco Works in February 1984.



Brian