Prototype Tim Mills' Photos
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Arun. Thank you for the details about the fireboxes. It's the first time I'd heard about this, although I remember that there were issues which had to be resolved when the first loco came out of Barry. I remember it being stated that it was a condition of sale that they were not resold for further use but I don't remember any statement about why this should be so. As far as I'm aware there was no premium paid on locos coming out of Barry in terms of a payment to BR for the copper, but again I may be wrong. To quote Mickoo, "every day's a school day".
After this lineside series we'll be going shedward (just made up a new word!) again tomorrow. However, a tiny bit of variety here as the last one is on the ECML.
We're again at North Wembley supposedly in 1964 but in all probability 1963. Here's a van train with Jubilee at the head - almost certainly, judging by the formation, 45670 as seen in post #922. Note the Class 40 in the distance on an up train.
Now a Coronation with a van at the head of the passenger stock. This is 46254, City of Stoke on Trent, which we've not seen previously. By September 1960 it was a Crewe North engine, came up to Camden in March 1963, back to Crewe North the following month and withdrawn from there, along with so many of the class, in September 1964. It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge for scrapping which had been done by the year end. Crane still in the background........
Although quite indistinct this looks to be a Standard 4 2-6-0 on a freight - possibly a van train - crossing the WCML on the girder bridge from Neasden to Ruislip as discussed by Yorkshire Dave in post #923 and subsequently. That crane is there again.
Finally for today somewhere rather different identified as Potters Bar although undated. I'll take a guess in the absence of any other info that this is around 1963 as we believe the recently previous pictures to be. I'm rather taking issue with the proposed location, though. What is certain is that this is a Britannia, No 70014 Iron Duke. However, it was never allocated to any shed on the ECML and Tim actually photographed it at North Wembley (See post #939 which carries the potted history too.) For my money this must be somewhere on the WCML although I know not where. Tim certainly photographed at Bushey and also at Tring. With that building in the background could this be the start of Tring cutting with the loco on a down train, possibly on the slow line North?
Brian
After this lineside series we'll be going shedward (just made up a new word!) again tomorrow. However, a tiny bit of variety here as the last one is on the ECML.
We're again at North Wembley supposedly in 1964 but in all probability 1963. Here's a van train with Jubilee at the head - almost certainly, judging by the formation, 45670 as seen in post #922. Note the Class 40 in the distance on an up train.
Now a Coronation with a van at the head of the passenger stock. This is 46254, City of Stoke on Trent, which we've not seen previously. By September 1960 it was a Crewe North engine, came up to Camden in March 1963, back to Crewe North the following month and withdrawn from there, along with so many of the class, in September 1964. It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge for scrapping which had been done by the year end. Crane still in the background........
Although quite indistinct this looks to be a Standard 4 2-6-0 on a freight - possibly a van train - crossing the WCML on the girder bridge from Neasden to Ruislip as discussed by Yorkshire Dave in post #923 and subsequently. That crane is there again.
Finally for today somewhere rather different identified as Potters Bar although undated. I'll take a guess in the absence of any other info that this is around 1963 as we believe the recently previous pictures to be. I'm rather taking issue with the proposed location, though. What is certain is that this is a Britannia, No 70014 Iron Duke. However, it was never allocated to any shed on the ECML and Tim actually photographed it at North Wembley (See post #939 which carries the potted history too.) For my money this must be somewhere on the WCML although I know not where. Tim certainly photographed at Bushey and also at Tring. With that building in the background could this be the start of Tring cutting with the loco on a down train, possibly on the slow line North?
Brian
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Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Finally for today somewhere rather different identified as Potters Bar although undated. I'll take a guess in the absence of any other info that this is around 1963 as we believe the recently previous pictures to be. I'm rather taking issue with the proposed location, though. What is certain is that this is a Britannia, No 70014 Iron Duke. However, it was never allocated to any shed on the ECML and Tim actually photographed it at North Wembley (See post #939 which carries the potted history too.) For my money this must be somewhere on the WCML although I know not where. Tim certainly photographed at Bushey and also at Tring. With that building in the background could this be the start of Tring cutting with the loco on a down train, possibly on the slow line North?
Your hunch is correct about the WCML but not Tring. As I recall there are no buildings near the entrance to the car park which now occupies the yard. Potters Bar is ruled out as it is on an embankment. The cable hangers are a bit of a clue*
I think (possibly certain) this might have been taken at Kenton (from the yard) looking north with the loco on a short 6 coach train on the slow lines - possibly a semi-fast. The curve is hardly noticable on the map but it appears to have been accentuated by the photo.
The two nearest lines and those to the right with the wagons are the yard (which were generally sited on the 'up' side). There was also a coal depot here.
The train is on the up slow with the down slow immediately behind the left leading wheel of the loco bogie as viewed. The next set of tracks are the up fast (visible) and down fast (hidden behind the up fast) and the furthest tracks are the LMR/LT electric local lines of which the up local is visible. You would not see the conductor rails as they are in the 6' way and Kenton station is hidden behind the train.
The cable hangers in the background are similar to those appearing in some of Tim's earlier photos together with what appears to be piles of possibly cable troughs. Again, the latter ties in with the earlier photographs where the cable trunking work was in progress.
The building with the distinctive chimney in the right background could well be The Rest Hotel.
With the loco being allocated to Neasden between it's Willedsen allocations it did cross my mind whether this might be on the ex GC route from Neasden to Ashenden Junction (GC & GW Joint) thence to Grendon Underwood to join the GC main line north of Quainton Road.
*cable hangers = 3rd & 4th rail or 3rd rail electric. Cable hangers are still seen on LT.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thanks Dave - a cracking bit of memory and research there. I'd not noticed the cable hangers although I looked for the DC lines and didn't find them! It's certainly Kenton from the goods yard - now Sainsbury's. I agree that's the Rest Hotel (where I had my 21st birthday dinner - yes, I was young once). We used to get our coal from Wallace Spiers on the bridge at Kenton. They had a massive lump of coal outside which they'd won for something or another and their wagons (not that I ever saw any) were yellow. In fact by darkening the image I can make out the office. The station was a favourite for train spotting when the weather was iffy as you could shelter. I thought the shot could have been Tring because the Royal Hotel File:Tring railway station, The former Royal Hotel - geograph.org.uk - 582760.jpg - Wikimedia Commons building would just about fit the location if Tim was alongside the fast down line.
On to the subjects for today. All titled "Willesden 1964" which are probably actually 1963. Royal Scot 46129 The Scottish Horse but shorn of nameplate on this side at least on what looks as though it might be the breakdown train, long shed on the left and proud footplate men in attendance - could that be the shed foreman on the right? From September 1962 it was a Longsight engine, withdrawn in June 1964 and went to Central Wagon Co, Ince where it was scrapped in November.
A nice portrait of rebuilt Jubilee 45735, Comet, complete with nameplates and a 1A shedplate which puts it between January 1961 and October 1963 when it moved to Annesley. The loco was discussed in post #922 so I'll not repeat details here.
Caprotti Black 5 44744 carrying a 9A, Longsight, shed plate which puts the picture (and others I suspect) firmly between May 1963 and November 1963 which when it was shedded there. November was the end, though, as it was withdrawn and went to Crewe Works for scrap which had occurred by the end of January 1964.
Finally for today and outside the long shed, Britannia ahead, another more conventional Black 5, 44909, a resident of Rugby since 1948, moving to Bletchley in January 1965 and then Rose Grove in July the same year. It was withdrawn in September 1967 going to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was disposed of by February 1968.
Brian
On to the subjects for today. All titled "Willesden 1964" which are probably actually 1963. Royal Scot 46129 The Scottish Horse but shorn of nameplate on this side at least on what looks as though it might be the breakdown train, long shed on the left and proud footplate men in attendance - could that be the shed foreman on the right? From September 1962 it was a Longsight engine, withdrawn in June 1964 and went to Central Wagon Co, Ince where it was scrapped in November.
A nice portrait of rebuilt Jubilee 45735, Comet, complete with nameplates and a 1A shedplate which puts it between January 1961 and October 1963 when it moved to Annesley. The loco was discussed in post #922 so I'll not repeat details here.
Caprotti Black 5 44744 carrying a 9A, Longsight, shed plate which puts the picture (and others I suspect) firmly between May 1963 and November 1963 which when it was shedded there. November was the end, though, as it was withdrawn and went to Crewe Works for scrap which had occurred by the end of January 1964.
Finally for today and outside the long shed, Britannia ahead, another more conventional Black 5, 44909, a resident of Rugby since 1948, moving to Bletchley in January 1965 and then Rose Grove in July the same year. It was withdrawn in September 1967 going to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was disposed of by February 1968.
Brian
Scanlon
Western Thunderer
Brian,
This is 46254 City of Stoke on Trent not KGVI! As it happens 46254 is on my projects list, probably later this year and correctly modelled including rivetted tender.
Keep up the good work,
Roger
AJC
Western Thunderer
In fact a pair of vans, a Southern PMV or CCT and a BR BG. Parcels I imagine rather than additional luggage but not really my scene. The longer wheelbase of the SR vehicle would be better than a couple of 12 ton vans though they don’t ride as well as a proper passenger chassis based on experience of recycled vans under coach bodies in preservation.
Adam
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Roger - Whoops! I read the number from the front plate and clearly didn't get it right. However I've now edited the script to correct it and thank you for taking the trouble to put me right.
And Adam. Thanks for the detail about the vans. I didn't inspect the second vehicle properly or I'd have recognised that it's not a passenger carrying vehicle. It's now added to the details I'll attach to the photo.
Today we'll go sharply off piste and then back again, although I have to admit that these are not Tim's best work by a margin.
First going back to the early years of railway preservation, before the word "heritage" had even been invented! This is named "Bluebell 1964" and is of Birch Grove with the Met Railway Chesham stock, I believe entering Horsted Keynes. There's plenty written about this loco and the stock elsewhere so I'll not expound further here, but I visited the Bluebell for the first time in about the same year. It's difficult to believe that it's nearly sixty years ago. It was one of the first schemes to demonstrate what could be achieved with enthusiasm, the right contacts and a certain amount of cash! It certainly put me on the road to believing that a much bigger and more expensive project was possible despite the doubters of the time.
Here's 45735 again, (nice bit of carriage stock behind!) described at Willesden in 1964. The location is doubtless correct but again I'll suspect the year as 1963. We've seen this loco twice previously in better pictures actually, and details are attached to post #922.
This V2 was photographed at Willesden at the same time as 45735 above, so V2s were clearly not so unusual as visitors. This is named V2 60847, St Peter's School, but shorn of nameplates. It's carrying a 50A (York North) shedplate so I can only assume that it had come up to London on a freight via the ECML and then brought that across to Willesden. 60847 had been a York resident since 1946 and was withdrawn from there at the end of June 1965. It was scrapped by the following August at Cashmore's Great Bridge. Type 2 diesel D5085 looks on and lasted only eleven years longer than the V2 being withdrawn in 1976 and cut up at Swindon in 1978 as 24085.
Lastly two views of Coronation 46239, City of Chester carrying a 1A Willesden shed plate. It was at Willesden from September 1963 to the end of August 1964 when it went to Edge Hill. It didn't last very long there, though, as it was withdrawn two weeks after arrival and also went to Cashmore's Great Bridge for disposal which had happened by December. Green liveried Standard 5 4-6-0 73014 is moored up alongside.
Brian
And Adam. Thanks for the detail about the vans. I didn't inspect the second vehicle properly or I'd have recognised that it's not a passenger carrying vehicle. It's now added to the details I'll attach to the photo.
Today we'll go sharply off piste and then back again, although I have to admit that these are not Tim's best work by a margin.
First going back to the early years of railway preservation, before the word "heritage" had even been invented! This is named "Bluebell 1964" and is of Birch Grove with the Met Railway Chesham stock, I believe entering Horsted Keynes. There's plenty written about this loco and the stock elsewhere so I'll not expound further here, but I visited the Bluebell for the first time in about the same year. It's difficult to believe that it's nearly sixty years ago. It was one of the first schemes to demonstrate what could be achieved with enthusiasm, the right contacts and a certain amount of cash! It certainly put me on the road to believing that a much bigger and more expensive project was possible despite the doubters of the time.
Here's 45735 again, (nice bit of carriage stock behind!) described at Willesden in 1964. The location is doubtless correct but again I'll suspect the year as 1963. We've seen this loco twice previously in better pictures actually, and details are attached to post #922.
This V2 was photographed at Willesden at the same time as 45735 above, so V2s were clearly not so unusual as visitors. This is named V2 60847, St Peter's School, but shorn of nameplates. It's carrying a 50A (York North) shedplate so I can only assume that it had come up to London on a freight via the ECML and then brought that across to Willesden. 60847 had been a York resident since 1946 and was withdrawn from there at the end of June 1965. It was scrapped by the following August at Cashmore's Great Bridge. Type 2 diesel D5085 looks on and lasted only eleven years longer than the V2 being withdrawn in 1976 and cut up at Swindon in 1978 as 24085.
Lastly two views of Coronation 46239, City of Chester carrying a 1A Willesden shed plate. It was at Willesden from September 1963 to the end of August 1964 when it went to Edge Hill. It didn't last very long there, though, as it was withdrawn two weeks after arrival and also went to Cashmore's Great Bridge for disposal which had happened by December. Green liveried Standard 5 4-6-0 73014 is moored up alongside.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thank you all for the "Likes". Tim and I agree that these last four pictures are not worthy of such high honour.
However, today may be different! All these are entitled "Waterloo 1964" so we'll see whether there are any clues to suggest a different date as we go through them. The first is 34092, City of Wells, or "The Volcano" entering Waterloo with a "SUB" unit (I believe) alongside. Perhaps Yorkshire Dave can advise where the train had come from. 34092 had been at Salisbury since 1961 and was withdrawn from there at the end of November 1964. It went to Barry, was rescued and has had a very successful career in preservation, although current condition is not known - by me at least.
Next a sort of rebuilt "big brother". Merchant Navy 35027 Port Line had been at Bournemouth since 1955 and was withdrawn in mid September 1966. I'm sure Dave can give us chapter and verse on the direction of travel and I'll take a guess at Bournemouth! At this date it looks as though the loco is missing its name plates although has a set of smokebox number and shed plates. This was another survivor from Barry which it left in 1982. It was restored but I'm again unaware of current condition.
Here's another of City of Wells backing out of the station, probably on its way to Nine Elms. Regrettably this is another of the photos where the frame had not properly wound on so part of the loco front is missing.
Finally a brace of locos and I'll take a punt on these being on empty carriage stock but Dave will put me right, no doubt. (In fact steam was in use on at least one suburban service until the very last day as the train to Kensington Olympia remained steam hauled). 82022 on the left was a resident at Nine Elms from mid November 1962 and was withdrawn in mid October 1965, going to Buttigiegs Newport where it was dismantled in April 1966. 82011 was also a Nine Elms engine at the same time, was withdrawn at the end of August 1964 and went to Cohen's at Kettering where it met its end in November so assuming the date attributed is correct we have an eight month window for these photos.
Brian
However, today may be different! All these are entitled "Waterloo 1964" so we'll see whether there are any clues to suggest a different date as we go through them. The first is 34092, City of Wells, or "The Volcano" entering Waterloo with a "SUB" unit (I believe) alongside. Perhaps Yorkshire Dave can advise where the train had come from. 34092 had been at Salisbury since 1961 and was withdrawn from there at the end of November 1964. It went to Barry, was rescued and has had a very successful career in preservation, although current condition is not known - by me at least.
Next a sort of rebuilt "big brother". Merchant Navy 35027 Port Line had been at Bournemouth since 1955 and was withdrawn in mid September 1966. I'm sure Dave can give us chapter and verse on the direction of travel and I'll take a guess at Bournemouth! At this date it looks as though the loco is missing its name plates although has a set of smokebox number and shed plates. This was another survivor from Barry which it left in 1982. It was restored but I'm again unaware of current condition.
Here's another of City of Wells backing out of the station, probably on its way to Nine Elms. Regrettably this is another of the photos where the frame had not properly wound on so part of the loco front is missing.
Finally a brace of locos and I'll take a punt on these being on empty carriage stock but Dave will put me right, no doubt. (In fact steam was in use on at least one suburban service until the very last day as the train to Kensington Olympia remained steam hauled). 82022 on the left was a resident at Nine Elms from mid November 1962 and was withdrawn in mid October 1965, going to Buttigiegs Newport where it was dismantled in April 1966. 82011 was also a Nine Elms engine at the same time, was withdrawn at the end of August 1964 and went to Cohen's at Kettering where it met its end in November so assuming the date attributed is correct we have an eight month window for these photos.
Brian
Attachments
AJC
Western Thunderer
I like the pair of Standard 3s very much, Brian - 34092, after many years at Keighley, is now at the East Lancs and working so far as I know and, perhaps, still with the Giesel ejector fitted.
34092 Wells/City of Wells
Adam
34092 Wells/City of Wells
Adam
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Just to add to Mike's notes....the SR headcodes from top to bottom are:
34092 - Waterloo or Nine Elms and Plymouth - could have started it's journey anywhere along this route as it appears to be a short train.
EMU - the most interesting part of the photo to me! A Bulleid (1946/47) or BR (1948/51) 4-SUB - without a clear number it's difficult to tell which batch it came from. Anyway, it's on a Waterloo roundabout service from Teddington - headcode 61. The actual service was Waterloo (Main Line) to Waterloo (Windsor Lines) via the Kingston Loop (New Malden, Teddington and Twickenham). It will return to Waterloo (Main Line) as route 62 using the reverse route Waterloo (Windsor Lines), Twickenham, Teddington, New Malden and Waterloo (Main Line).
35027 - Waterloo and Bournemouth West via Sway - I see it's hauling Pullman cars - Bournemouth Belle perhaps?
The EMU in the background is a 4-COR (Nelsons - due to their one-eyed appearance from the headcode being placed on the left side of the cab corridor connection) .
82022 - Waterloo and Clapham Junc - empty trains and light engines - as you suggest this could be an ECS working. 82011 - All stations to Feltham except Mortlake.
34092 - Waterloo or Nine Elms and Plymouth - could have started it's journey anywhere along this route as it appears to be a short train.
EMU - the most interesting part of the photo to me! A Bulleid (1946/47) or BR (1948/51) 4-SUB - without a clear number it's difficult to tell which batch it came from. Anyway, it's on a Waterloo roundabout service from Teddington - headcode 61. The actual service was Waterloo (Main Line) to Waterloo (Windsor Lines) via the Kingston Loop (New Malden, Teddington and Twickenham). It will return to Waterloo (Main Line) as route 62 using the reverse route Waterloo (Windsor Lines), Twickenham, Teddington, New Malden and Waterloo (Main Line).
35027 - Waterloo and Bournemouth West via Sway - I see it's hauling Pullman cars - Bournemouth Belle perhaps?
The EMU in the background is a 4-COR (Nelsons - due to their one-eyed appearance from the headcode being placed on the left side of the cab corridor connection) .
82022 - Waterloo and Clapham Junc - empty trains and light engines - as you suggest this could be an ECS working. 82011 - All stations to Feltham except Mortlake.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thank you Mike and Adam. Useful additional information.
Dave - you've come up trumps again. Thanks for filling in the gaps. The info looks pretty complete for these photos now. I'd forgotten about the Pullman cars in the photo of the Merchant Navy and yes, I think they are probably the Bournemouth Belle. Tim took a lot of time chasing that particular train.
We're staying on the Southern and will be for a while now. The following four are all in 1964 (probably), the first two at Waterloo and the final two at Vauxhall. The first is Merchant Navy 35030, Elder-Dempster Lines in quite decent condition and with a full set of plates backing out probably to Nine Elms. That shed plate is distinctly 70A, Nine Elms. This loco was at Nine Elms until September 1964 when it moved to Weymouth (Radipole). It came back to Nine Elms in mid April 1967 and was withdrawn from there at the end of steam on the Southern, 9th July. I believe that's a 4-COR in the background.
At the buffer stops at Waterloo. Air smoothed Battle of Britain 34057, Biggin Hill, looking in fine fettle. The shed plate is not decipherable but it was a Salisbury engine from mid September 1963 from where it was withdrawn in May 1967 going to Cashmore's Newport for destruction which was done in October. Nice little cameo in the background...... Doubtless the head code will tell us where this train came from.
At Vauxhall a rebuilt West Country which may be 34016, Bodmin, and a Merchant Navy, 35006, Peninsular and Oriental S. N. Co, back up to Waterloo. 34016, if that is what it is, was a resident of Eastleigh at the time, was withdrawn in mid June 1964, went to Barry and is now in preservation, although I don't know about current status. I saw this loco several times at Quainton Road before it moved to the Watercress Line. 35006 was a Salisbury engine and withdrawn from there later the same year, in August, but I've been unable to establish what happened to it after that. Updating info will be gratefully received. Note the marked board crossing in the foreground.
With that crossing in prominent view again this is rebuilt West Country 34036, Westward Ho! and again I'll appreciate help with that head code. This loco was at Salisbury in November 1963, moving to Eastleigh in September 1964 and finally Nine Elms in June 1966. It also hung on to the bitter end, being withdrawn on 9th July 1967 but this one went to Cashmore's Newport where it was scrapped in February 1968.
Brian
Dave - you've come up trumps again. Thanks for filling in the gaps. The info looks pretty complete for these photos now. I'd forgotten about the Pullman cars in the photo of the Merchant Navy and yes, I think they are probably the Bournemouth Belle. Tim took a lot of time chasing that particular train.
We're staying on the Southern and will be for a while now. The following four are all in 1964 (probably), the first two at Waterloo and the final two at Vauxhall. The first is Merchant Navy 35030, Elder-Dempster Lines in quite decent condition and with a full set of plates backing out probably to Nine Elms. That shed plate is distinctly 70A, Nine Elms. This loco was at Nine Elms until September 1964 when it moved to Weymouth (Radipole). It came back to Nine Elms in mid April 1967 and was withdrawn from there at the end of steam on the Southern, 9th July. I believe that's a 4-COR in the background.
At the buffer stops at Waterloo. Air smoothed Battle of Britain 34057, Biggin Hill, looking in fine fettle. The shed plate is not decipherable but it was a Salisbury engine from mid September 1963 from where it was withdrawn in May 1967 going to Cashmore's Newport for destruction which was done in October. Nice little cameo in the background...... Doubtless the head code will tell us where this train came from.
At Vauxhall a rebuilt West Country which may be 34016, Bodmin, and a Merchant Navy, 35006, Peninsular and Oriental S. N. Co, back up to Waterloo. 34016, if that is what it is, was a resident of Eastleigh at the time, was withdrawn in mid June 1964, went to Barry and is now in preservation, although I don't know about current status. I saw this loco several times at Quainton Road before it moved to the Watercress Line. 35006 was a Salisbury engine and withdrawn from there later the same year, in August, but I've been unable to establish what happened to it after that. Updating info will be gratefully received. Note the marked board crossing in the foreground.
With that crossing in prominent view again this is rebuilt West Country 34036, Westward Ho! and again I'll appreciate help with that head code. This loco was at Salisbury in November 1963, moving to Eastleigh in September 1964 and finally Nine Elms in June 1966. It also hung on to the bitter end, being withdrawn on 9th July 1967 but this one went to Cashmore's Newport where it was scrapped in February 1968.
Brian
AJC
Western Thunderer
Thanks again for sharing these, Brian. I love the juxtapositions of old and new in the backdrops to Vauxhall at this date, almost like a stage set for the railway. Only one comment to add -
I reckon @Dave Holt might be able to provide chapter and verse on 35006 (if his avatar is any guide whatsoever
) and there's always this:
Society. It's back in running order at the Gloucestershire and Warwickshire Railway.
Adam
I reckon @Dave Holt might be able to provide chapter and verse on 35006 (if his avatar is any guide whatsoever
) and there's always this: Society. It's back in running order at the Gloucestershire and Warwickshire Railway.
Adam
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Mmmm.... Would have to do some digging to give accurate details, but 35006 is, as Adam says, very much still with us, based at the GWSR. I was doing some work on her, yesterday, helping get it ready for use next weekend and for about a 10 day period.
After withdrawal, she went to Woodhams and spent many years rusting away in the sea air and being stripped of parts to help other groups ahead of purchase by the society. The largest item taken was the tender - now usually running behind a preserved un-rebuilt light pacific - can't remember which. As a result, our loco now has a completely scratch built tender of a hybrid design - long wheel base (per 6000 gallon type) but with a stretched 5000 gallon style body - due to a design error! A good example of being wary of copying preserved locos for modelling purposes.
Her she is at Toddington.
This might be re-naming day, as it looks like the nameplate is covered up. She's currently facing the other way round.
Dave.
After withdrawal, she went to Woodhams and spent many years rusting away in the sea air and being stripped of parts to help other groups ahead of purchase by the society. The largest item taken was the tender - now usually running behind a preserved un-rebuilt light pacific - can't remember which. As a result, our loco now has a completely scratch built tender of a hybrid design - long wheel base (per 6000 gallon type) but with a stretched 5000 gallon style body - due to a design error! A good example of being wary of copying preserved locos for modelling purposes.
Her she is at Toddington.
This might be re-naming day, as it looks like the nameplate is covered up. She's currently facing the other way round.
Dave.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Thank you for your kind comment, Adam, which I'll pass on to Tim when I speak to him next.
I didn't realise that 35006 was preserved, let alone in running order! I therefore went back through the records at Barry and, low and behold, there it is! It's recorded there by the SLS on 6th June 1966 and also 7th July 1968 so I must have seen it there myself! Coincidentally the subject of one of the other photos, Bodmin, is recorded there on the same dates but also at Cashmore's Newport on 16th October 1967 which must be an error by the scribe for the SLS as the loco would not have gone from Barry to Newport and back. I remember reading somewhere that delivery of locos for scrap could occasionally go awry and they could be delivered to the wrong scrap yard although, as far as I'm aware, they never moved on to their intended destination so I assume a book adjustment was made.
Thank you for putting me on the right track - pun intended.
Brian
Edit - Dave. Yours arrived as I was typing my response to Adam. Thank you for the confirmation and well done to all involved in bringing a wreck back from the dead!
I didn't realise that 35006 was preserved, let alone in running order! I therefore went back through the records at Barry and, low and behold, there it is! It's recorded there by the SLS on 6th June 1966 and also 7th July 1968 so I must have seen it there myself! Coincidentally the subject of one of the other photos, Bodmin, is recorded there on the same dates but also at Cashmore's Newport on 16th October 1967 which must be an error by the scribe for the SLS as the loco would not have gone from Barry to Newport and back. I remember reading somewhere that delivery of locos for scrap could occasionally go awry and they could be delivered to the wrong scrap yard although, as far as I'm aware, they never moved on to their intended destination so I assume a book adjustment was made.
Thank you for putting me on the right track - pun intended.
Brian
Edit - Dave. Yours arrived as I was typing my response to Adam. Thank you for the confirmation and well done to all involved in bringing a wreck back from the dead!
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
The headcode will more than likely be made up of the disc and lamp which was Basingstoke to Waterloo via Frimley and Twickenham. It is also a special boat train headcode from Waterloo to Southampton Docks via Millbrook which is unlikely as the loco is facing the buffers.
Ignoring the lamp the single disc was Waterloo and Waterloo via Kingston which would be very unlikely as this service was electric routes 61 & 62 as described earlier in posts # 948 and 951.
This is very likely to be Waterloo and Southampton Terminus via the main line - not boat trains as they have their own special headcode.
It is also the code for Waterloo and Windsor via Twickenham but very unlikely as this service was electric.
As @AJC has alluded to with the juxtaposition of the old and new buildings - those here are on the site of the Royal Flour Mills on Lambeth Embankment. Tim's 1957 photo in post #274 of the T9 shows how the rebuilding has altered the landscape around Vauxhall. Tim's photos are not only recording the railways but also the changing London skyline as well. The Houses of Parliament are in the background (clock tower with the flag).
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oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Dave - Thanks once again for filling in gaps in the headcode info, and particularly your info about the buildings in Vauxhall.
Here's another four. These are still dated as 1964. The first is Waterloo again, and exactly as I remember it. From the left what I believe to be a Bulleid 4-SUB which hopefully Dave will confirm. Next an unidentified Standard 5 4-6-0, then one of the Giesl fitted air smoothed Battle of Britains, 34064, Fighter Command on a Cunard Line boat train and finally Standard 3 2-6-2T 82023.
34064 was the 1000th loco to be built at Brighton Works and the first to be fitted with a vee shaped cab. In 1964 it was shedded at Eastleigh, being withdrawn from there in the June. Any info on where it went from there will be gratefully received - I can find nothing except that it had been scrapped by the end of November. It doesn't appear to have ever been in the Barry cohort.
82023 was a Nine Elms engine from November 1962, was withdrawn in October 1966. It went to Cashmore's, Newport where it was scrapped in March 1967.
The boat train head code is (I think) self explanatory as being Waterloo - Southampton. 82023 and the Standard 5 are carrying Waterloo to Clapham Junction empty trains and light engines indicators, so probably ECS.
Back at Vauxhall is Merchant Navy 35008, Orient Line, on what I believe to be the Bournemouth Belle. The headcode is Waterloo - Bournemouth West via Sway (thanks Dave!) In 1964 it was a Bournemouth engine, moving to Weymouth Radipole in October 1966 and then to Nine Elms in April 1967. It lasted to the very end, on 9th July 1967, and although recorded as scrapped in September 1968 I can't find out where. It's another that doesn't appear to have survived via Barry.
Also at Vauxhall is rebuilt West Country 34024, Tamar Valley, and once again I'll appreciate help with the headcode. 34024 was a Bournemouth engine, withdrawn from there at the end of steam on the Southern and scrapped in March 1968 at Cashmore's Newport.
Standard Class 5 73171. Waterloo or Nine Elms to Plymouth. The shed code is clearly 70B, Feltham, which suggests it may have been pressed in to passenger service during a shortage of main line express motive power. It moved from Feltham to Eastleigh in November 1964, was withdrawn from there at the beginning of October 1966 and went to Cashmore's Newport where it was scrapped in March 1967.
The more information comes to light about the locos and their allocations in this series the more I believe the proposed date of 1964 is correct, and probably in the first half of the year - certainly no later than June.
Brian
Here's another four. These are still dated as 1964. The first is Waterloo again, and exactly as I remember it. From the left what I believe to be a Bulleid 4-SUB which hopefully Dave will confirm. Next an unidentified Standard 5 4-6-0, then one of the Giesl fitted air smoothed Battle of Britains, 34064, Fighter Command on a Cunard Line boat train and finally Standard 3 2-6-2T 82023.
34064 was the 1000th loco to be built at Brighton Works and the first to be fitted with a vee shaped cab. In 1964 it was shedded at Eastleigh, being withdrawn from there in the June. Any info on where it went from there will be gratefully received - I can find nothing except that it had been scrapped by the end of November. It doesn't appear to have ever been in the Barry cohort.
82023 was a Nine Elms engine from November 1962, was withdrawn in October 1966. It went to Cashmore's, Newport where it was scrapped in March 1967.
The boat train head code is (I think) self explanatory as being Waterloo - Southampton. 82023 and the Standard 5 are carrying Waterloo to Clapham Junction empty trains and light engines indicators, so probably ECS.
Back at Vauxhall is Merchant Navy 35008, Orient Line, on what I believe to be the Bournemouth Belle. The headcode is Waterloo - Bournemouth West via Sway (thanks Dave!) In 1964 it was a Bournemouth engine, moving to Weymouth Radipole in October 1966 and then to Nine Elms in April 1967. It lasted to the very end, on 9th July 1967, and although recorded as scrapped in September 1968 I can't find out where. It's another that doesn't appear to have survived via Barry.
Also at Vauxhall is rebuilt West Country 34024, Tamar Valley, and once again I'll appreciate help with the headcode. 34024 was a Bournemouth engine, withdrawn from there at the end of steam on the Southern and scrapped in March 1968 at Cashmore's Newport.
Standard Class 5 73171. Waterloo or Nine Elms to Plymouth. The shed code is clearly 70B, Feltham, which suggests it may have been pressed in to passenger service during a shortage of main line express motive power. It moved from Feltham to Eastleigh in November 1964, was withdrawn from there at the beginning of October 1966 and went to Cashmore's Newport where it was scrapped in March 1967.
The more information comes to light about the locos and their allocations in this series the more I believe the proposed date of 1964 is correct, and probably in the first half of the year - certainly no later than June.
Brian
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Boat train headcode - Southampton Docks via Millbrook.
The electric units appear to be 2-Bils and are sitting in the stabling sidings on the Windsor/Reading lines side of Waterloo. The 1938 batch was built for the Reading and Windsor line services. Bulleid 4-Subs had oval buffers.
Boat train headcode - Southampton Docks via Northiam.
Wagonman
Western Thunderer
I remember sitting on a District line train held at West Brompton station while on my way to work when the Kenny Belle went through with what I think was a 3MT tank on the front. This must have been early 1967 I guess. Please don't tell me they'd all been withdrawn by then!
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