Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[John Palmer]

Lurking behind 44861 in img3618 can be seen an ex-LNWR combination truck now doing duty as a weighing machine adjustment van in the service of Henry Pooley, a company closely associated with the maintenance of weighbridges on railway premises. Details of a similar vehicle (possibly even the same one) can be found at GWR 2-8-0 2857 - LNWR 6-Wheel Covered Combination Truck No. DM395273 “The Pooley Van”.

The Witham history website at The history of Witham, Essex has some splendid photographs, taken from other viewpoints, of the area to be seen in img3614. Also a number of photographs showing the aftermath of the 1905 derailment of a Cromer-bound express.

 

[oldravendale]

Interesting comments there, chaps, although I appreciate that some were (I hope) rather flippant. If you wanted to see a hall full of entirely different looking locos you only had to go to the Southern. Even any two locos of the same class could and often did look entirely different. Your additional information is much appreciated, John @John Palmer regarding both the Pooley van and Witham.

Britannia 70044 Earl Haig at South Hampstead on a Euston to Manchester down train on 27th September 1958. Previously seen in post #1337 the loco was allocated to Longsight from December 1954, then Holbeck in December 1958. In September 1962 it became one of Crewe North's allocation but subsequently moved to Crewe South in June Newton Heath in August 1965 and finally Stockport Edgeley in June 1966. (SLS). It was withdrawn at the end of October 1966 and went to T W Ward, Beighton where it was scrapped by 20th February 1967 (BR Database and Rail UK).

The train is emerging from Primrose Hill tunnel(s) and the girder bridge in the background carries the GC line between Finchley Road and Marylebone. It's the only place today where the GC line reappears in daylight between Finchley Road (from the left as viewed) and Marylebone (towards the right as viewed).

The Met line between Finchley Road and Baker Street is further back in a cut and cover tunnel roughly on the same alignment as the Finchley Road and will cross the LNWR (in a tunnel) over the LNWR Primrose Hill Tunnels.



Four photos of the same loco suggest that Tim was well aware that the days of the Midland Compounds were numbered. Here is 41094 at Kentish Town Shed Yard on 27th September 1958. The loco was allocated to Holbeck in April 1956 and was withdrawn in January 1959. (SLS). It was observed at Derby Works on 23rd May 1959 but scrapped at Crewe Works. (WHTS but verification required)









Class A2/2 60506 Wolf of Badenoch backing off the Kings Cross Station shed having been serviced on 11th October 1958 with N2 69582 in the background. The A2 had been allocated to New England since November 1949 and was withdrawn in April 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works (BR Database) and reportedly cut up in the month of withdrawal. (WHTS).

The N2 had been a Hatfield engine since at least January 1948 (BR Database) and was transferred to New England in June 1959 where it was withdrawn in September 1960. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works, probably in January 1961. (SLS).



14XX 0-4-2T 1448 on shed at Slough on 12th October 1958. The loco was allocated to Slough in November 1950 and withdrawn in June 1960. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport, in October 1960. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Barry37]

Interesting comments there, chaps, although I appreciate that some were (I hope) rather flippant. If you wanted to see a hall full of entirely different looking locos you only had to go to the Southern. Even any two locos of the same class could and often did look entirely different. Your additional information is much appreciated, John @John Palmer regarding both the Pooley van and Witham.

Britannia 70044 Earl Haig at South Hampstead on a Euston to Manchester down train on 27th September 1958. Previously seen in post #1337 the loco was allocated to Longsight from December 1954, then Holbeck in December 1958. In September 1962 it became one of Crewe North's allocation but subsequently moved to Crewe South in June Newton Heath in August 1965 and finally Stockport Edgeley in June 1966. (SLS). It was withdrawn at the end of October 1966 and went to T W Ward, Beighton where it was scrapped by 20th February 1967 (BR Database and Rail UK).

View attachment 230749

Four photos of the same loco suggest that Tim was well aware that the days of the Midland Compounds were numbered. Here is 41094 at Kentish Town Shed Yard on 27th September 1958. The loco was allocated to Holbeck in April 1956 and was withdrawn in January 1959. (SLS). It was observed at Derby Works on 23rd May 1959 but scrapped at Crewe Works. (WHTS but verification required)

View attachment 230750

View attachment 230751

View attachment 230752

View attachment 230753

Class A2/2 60506 Wolf of Badenoch backing off the Kings Cross Station shed having been serviced on 11th October 1958 with N2 69582 in the background. The A2 had been allocated to New England since November 1949 and was withdrawn in April 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works (BR Database) and reportedly cut up in the month of withdrawal. (WHTS).

The N2 had been a Hatfield engine since at least January 1948 (BR Database) and was transferred to New England in June 1959 where it was withdrawn in September 1960. (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works, probably in January 1961. (SLS).

View attachment 230754

14XX 0-4-2T 1448 on shed at Slough on 12th October 1958. The loco was allocated to Slough in November 1950 and withdrawn in June 1960. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Newport, in October 1960. (BR Database).

View attachment 230755

Brian

The wagon in front of 41094, seems to be an ex-PO wagon to the 1923 spec. Two planks have been replaced with thinner timber, requiring the use of packing behind the ironwork. Perhaps it was being used for loco ash as there appears to be a pit under the loco.
The wagon is unusual, in having a darker painted underframe, which was perhaps its PO livery on the body as well, before the latter was painted BR Freight Grey (it would appear).

 

[76043]

Good spot on that RCH wagon. Having the option of a black solebar adds variety and makes painting easier.
Tony

 

[Overseer]

The wagon in front of 41094, seems to be an ex-PO wagon to the 1923 spec. Two planks have been replaced with thinner timber, requiring the use of packing behind the ironwork. Perhaps it was being used for loco ash as there appears to be a pit under the loco.
The wagon is unusual, in having a darker painted underframe, which was perhaps its PO livery on the body as well, before the latter was painted BR Freight Grey (it would appear).

The wagon is in very unusual condition, without the photographic evidence I would have said it was a highly unlikely combination. The wartime thin planks were nearly all replaced with full thickness planks by the early 1950s - very few in photos after 1953. I haven’t seen evidence of ex-PO wagons being painted grey before 1957 (apart from one or two in 1948 livery trials). So the combination of thin planks and grey body is unusual, and the unrepainted solebar adds another level to the atypical wagon.

 

[timbowales]

The wagon is in very unusual condition, without the photographic evidence I would have said it was a highly unlikely combination. The wartime thin planks were nearly all replaced with full thickness planks by the early 1950s - very few in photos after 1953. I haven’t seen evidence of ex-PO wagons being painted grey before 1957 (apart from one or two in 1948 livery trials). So the combination of thin planks and grey body is unusual, and the unrepainted solebar adds another level to the atypical wagon.

Once again the exception that proves the rule?

 

[oldravendale]

Lots of interesting stuff about that wagon. Thanks all. For me (as I've said previously) it's the unexpected and previously quite rare details which seem to fill quite a few gaps in our knowledge.

H16 4-6-2T 30518 at Feltham Loco Shed on 12th October 1958. The H16 was allocated to Feltham in June 1923 (BR Database) and eventually moved to Eastleigh in February 1961 and Feltham in the following May where it was withdrawn in November 1962. (SLS). Disposal was at Cohen’s, Kettering, in April 1964. (BR Database).



A class of loco already well on the way to final withdrawal and extinction was the 700s or Black Motors. Here is 30696 at Feltham Shed on 12th October 1958. The loco was allocated to Feltham in December 1949 and withdrawn in August 1961. (SLS). It was cut up at Eastleigh Works week ending 9th September 1961. (RO).



Class 02 0-4-4T 30177 and looking in very good order at Feltham Loco Shed on 12th October 1958. It was allocated to Feltham at the time, and had been from October 1956. It was withdrawn in October 1959 (SLS) and scrapped week ending 17th October 1959 at Eastleigh. (RO).



A string of locos here at Old Oak Common Shed Yard on 28th September 1958 featuring 43XX 2-6-0 5367, 15XX 0-6-0PT 1505, 47XX 2-8-0s 4708 and 4700 and Castle 7027 Thornbury Castle. A potted history of each follows:

5367 was allocated to Reading in July 1958 and withdrawn in September the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped in January 1959 at Swindon Works. (BR Database).

1505 was allocated to Old Oak Common from new in September 1949 and withdrawn in May 1962. (SLS). According to WHTS the loco was seen at Wolverhampton Works on 6th May 1962 and cut up there on 16th June 1962.

4708 had been allocated to Old Oak since November 1952 and was withdrawn from there in October 1962. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's at Great Bridge where it was scrapped in August 1963. (BR Database).

4700 had been allocated to Old Oak since at least June 1947 and moved just down the road, to Southall, in October 1961 where it was withdrawn in October 1962. (SLS and BR Database). It was scrapped in March 1964 (BR Database) at King’s of Norwich where it was photographed in February the same year. (WHTS).

7027. I’m a bit sore about this one as it was placed at the GCR for restoration and was a priority in the works with considerable work completed but was removed so the boiler could be used for the new build 47XX – not… See 7027 Thornbury Castle Anyway, it was allocated to Old Oak Common in January 1951, moved to Worcester in May 1960 and Reading in August 1963. It was withdrawn in December 1963. (SLS). It went to Barry Scrapyard and was therefore a survivor.



One loco from the string above is 1505.



Brian

 

[Lyndhurstman]

Hello
Regarding 7027. My uncle (Mike Watkins (RIP)) was involved with the loco in its post-Barry years (as well as working on it when he was employed by BR(WR)). In fact, there was a collection box for donations towards the restoration at his funeral. It's small potatoes in th Grand Scheme Of Things, I know, but I too am sore about the turn of events.

Cheers

Jan

 

[oldravendale]

4963 Rignall Hall taking water at Old Oak Common Shed on 28th September 1958. The loco was based at Oxley from October 1956 moving to Westbury in later May 1961 and Worcester in November the same year before withdrawal at the end of June 1962. (SLS). It was observed by the Railway Observer in Swindon Works on 12th August 1962 and cut up on 8th September 1962. (WHTS).



A rather grainy but otherwise interesting photo of 6024 King Edward I inside Old Oak Common Shed on 28th September 1958. The loco was at home at the time, having been allocated to Old Oak in September 1954, leaving for Cardiff Canton in October 1961 and withdrawal in June 1962 (SLS) then sold for scrap in November the same year. (BR Database). It was another survivor from Woodham’s at Barry – see 6024 King Edward I



Here’s a general view inside the cathedral that was Old Oak Common Shed including King 6028 King George VI on 28th September 1958. This was another long serving Old Oak engine, having been there since December 1948 and being withdrawn in November 1962. SLS. It was sold for scrap in June 1964 and went to Bird’s, Risca. (BR Database).



A very blurred but probable B1 4-6-0 at Marks Tey in Essex on 8th October 1958.



A3 60048 Doncaster at Kings Cross on the Northumbrian between Kings X and Newcastle on 11th October 1958. This has been seen before, for example in posts #2260, #2953, #4083 and #4275. The loco was allocated to Kings Cross in June 1958. It then moved to Grantham in February 1959, New England in October 1962 and back to Grantham in April 1963 where it was withdrawn in October the same year. (SLS). The now sadly defunct Rail UK refers to a withdrawal date of September 1963 and disposal at Doncaster Works the same month.



Brian

 

[James Spooner]

The blurred B1 looks very much like it is passing Marks Tey station on a down train. Marks Tey has staggered platforms and the up platform is visible on the left. The goods shed and yard is on the right and the loco and train are obscuring the junction for the Stour Valley lines to Cambridge and Bury St Edmunds.

Nigel

 

[oldravendale]

Hello
Regarding 7027. My uncle (Mike Watkins (RIP)) was involved with the loco in its post-Barry years (as well as working on it when he was employed by BR(WR)). In fact, there was a collection box for donations towards the restoration at his funeral. It's small potatoes in th Grand Scheme Of Things, I know, but I too am sore about the turn of events.

Cheers

Jan

Thanks Jan. I was involved at a distance as a 50+ years member and volunteer for the new GCR and its precedents and quite excited about the prospect of a Castle. Although we didn't own the engine we thought it was secure and spent time and money on what would have been an extensive restoration. To have it removed for use as a kit of parts seemed at best insensitive. I'll say no more.

Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Britannia 70044 Earl Haig at South Hampstead on a Euston to Manchester down train on 27th September 1958. Previously seen in post #1337 the loco was allocated to Longsight from December 1954, then Holbeck in December 1958. In September 1962 it became one of Crewe North's allocation but subsequently moved to Crewe South in June Newton Heath in August 1965 and finally Stockport Edgeley in June 1966. (SLS). It was withdrawn at the end of October 1966 and went to T W Ward, Beighton where it was scrapped by 20th February 1967 (BR Database and Rail UK).

The train is emerging from Primrose Hill tunnel(s) and the girder bridge in the background carries the GC line between Finchley Road and Marylebone. It's the only place today where the GC line reappears in daylight between Finchley Road (from the left as viewed) and Marylebone (towards the right as viewed).

The Met line between Finchley Road and Baker Street is further back in a cut and cover tunnel roughly on the same alignment as the Finchley Road and will cross the LNWR (in a tunnel) over the LNWR Primrose Hill Tunnels.

Here is an annotated extract of the NLS OS 1:1,250/1:2,500 1944-74 series to show the location. Finchley Road is at the top and South Hampstead at the bottom.

Green - GC, Red - LNWR; Maroon - Met; Brown - Bakerloo (now Jubilee). The Jubilee line disappears into the tube at Finchley Road. When it was part of the old Bakerloo line it resurfaces at the London Road depot between Lambeth North and Elephant & Castle. Baker Street to Elephant & Castle is now the Bakerloo from Harrow and Wealdstone.

Class 02 0-4-4T 30177 and looking in very good order at Feltham Loco Shed on 12th October 1958. It was allocated to Feltham at the time, and had been from October 1956. It was withdrawn in October 1959 (SLS) and scrapped week ending 17th October 1959 at Eastleigh. (RO).

One for the 'prototype for everything department' - note the two different transfer heights of the 30 and 177 numbering on the bunker.

 

[mickoo]

The blurred B1 looks very much like it is passing Marks Tey station on a down train. Marks Tey has staggered platforms and the up platform is visible on the left. The goods shed and yard is on the right and the loco and train are obscuring the junction for the Stour Valley lines to Cambridge and Bury St Edmunds.

Nigel

Yes, it's Marks Tey.

 

[oldravendale]

I appreciate the confirmation of the location for the blurred B1 picture, Nigel @James Spooner and Mick @mickoo. Commentary adjusted by way of an edit.

Dave @Yorkshire Dave - I've added to the commentary for that photo of Ear Haig as the comments are so helpful in understanding the location of this rather lovely photo. The additional info is held in an accompanying data file and thank you.

Thanks too for the comment about the 02 - I'd not noticed that rather poor application of transfers - possibly slipped waterslide. Either that or it's a model photo masquerading as the real thing....

S15 30514 at Feltham Loco Shed on 12th October 1958. The loco had been allocated to Feltham since at least 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in July 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Kettering, in March 1964. (BR Database).



This is 14XX 0-4-2T 1431 next to an ex GWR railcar at Southall Loco Shed on 12th October 1958. At the time 1431 was resident at Southall and had been since April 1958. It moved to Gloucester Horton Road in January 1960 and was withdrawn in April 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped in June 1961 (BR Database) and seen at the Swindon Works dump on 28th May 1961. (SLS).



Two here of another 14XX class, in this case 1420 at Southall Loco Shed on 12th October 1958. It had just, earlier in the same month, been transferred to Southall from Oxford. It went from Southall to Laira in August 1959, Hereford in February 1962 and Gloucester Horton Road in October 1964 where it was withdrawn a month later. (SLS). It moved immediately to preservation at Buckfastleigh – see 1420





5976 Ashwicke Hall from the Southall Bridge of Doom which was the official route to the shed on 12th October 1958 and taken in the same spot from which I photographed D819 nearly seven years later. The loco had been allocated at Exeter in May 1949 and moved to Old Oak Common in February 1959. It then went to Llanelli in July 1962, Fishguard Goodwick in June and Pontypool Road in September 1963 before withdrawal in June 1964. (SLS). The SLS reports allocation to Swindon a week after withdrawal but that may simply have been a move on the way to the scrapyard which was Cashmore’s, Newport, where the loco was disposed of in December 1964. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Barry37]

I appreciate the confirmation of the location for the blurred B1 picture, Nigel @James Spooner and Mick @mickoo. Commentary adjusted by way of an edit.

Dave @Yorkshire Dave - I've added to the commentary for that photo of Ear Haig as the comments are so helpful in understanding the location of this rather lovely photo. The additional info is held in an accompanying data file and thank you.

Thanks too for the comment about the 02 - I'd not noticed that rather poor application of transfers - possibly slipped waterslide. Either that or it's a model photo masquerading as the real thing....

S15 30514 at Feltham Loco Shed on 12th October 1958. The loco had been allocated to Feltham since at least 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in July 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cohen’s, Kettering, in March 1964. (BR Database).

View attachment 230974

This is 14XX 0-4-2T 1431 next to an ex GWR railcar at Southall Loco Shed on 12th October 1958. At the time 1431 was resident at Southall and had been since April 1958. It moved to Gloucester Horton Road in January 1960 and was withdrawn in April 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped in June 1961 (BR Database) and seen at the Swindon Works dump on 28th May 1961. (SLS).

View attachment 230975

Two here of another 14XX class, in this case 1420 at Southall Loco Shed on 12th October 1958. It had just, earlier in the same month, been transferred to Southall from Oxford. It went from Southall to Laira in August 1959, Hereford in February 1962 and Gloucester Horton Road in October 1964 where it was withdrawn a month later. (SLS). It moved immediately to preservation at Buckfastleigh – see 1420

View attachment 230976

View attachment 230977

5976 Ashwicke Hall from the Southall Bridge of Doom which was the official route to the shed on 12th October 1958 and taken in the same spot from which I photographed D819 nearly seven years later. The loco had been allocated at Exeter in May 1949 and moved to Old Oak Common in February 1959. It then went to Llanelli in July 1962, Fishguard Goodwick in June and Pontypool Road in September 1963 before withdrawal in June 1964. (SLS). The SLS reports allocation to Swindon a week after withdrawal but that may simply have been a move on the way to the scrapyard which was Cashmore’s, Newport, where the loco was disposed of in December 1964. (BR Database).

View attachment 230978

Brian

On the right of 5976, is what appears to be the vertical "tube" of a water softening plant, and probably a second one beyond the water tank.
Lewes station had one of these, rarely seen in photos, as it was across the road on the "Brighton" side, together with the station's water tank.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Two here of another 14XX class, in this case 1420 at Southall Loco Shed on 12th October 1958. It had just, earlier in the same month, been transferred to Southall from Oxford. It went from Southall to Laira in August 1959, Hereford in February 1962 and Gloucester Horton Road in October 1964 where it was withdrawn a month later. (SLS). It moved immediately to preservation at Buckfastleigh – see 1420

The first one of these two with the crew forms a nice piece of social history as I have not come across many photos of this period including Caribbean railway employees who came over as part of the 1950s post-war Caribbean recruitment drive to fill job vacancies in many industries in order to rebuild post-war Britain.

 

[76043]

@Yorkshire Dave : Dave, this screengrab was from an eBay sale of glass plate negs, purporting to be GER era, predating the Windrush era by a comfortable margin. I think someone from the GERS bought them. I reckon the chap on the right might be a guard and the loco crew on the left? I also believe copyright is likely to have expired in this image.
Tony

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Dave, this screengrab was from an eBay sale of glass plate negs, purporting to be GER era, predating the Windrush era by a comfortable margin. I think someone from the GERS bought them. I reckon the chap on the right might be a guard and the loco crew on the left? I also believe copyright is likely to have expired in this image.

Nice find. Judging by the attire I would say the chap on the right could also be a shunter. To be a guard (certainly on passenger trains) I would have expected the uniform to be smarter (i.e. with fewer creases) and made from worsted wool rather than cotton - similar to the drivers double breasted jacket.

Despite being in the steam era it's amazing how clean they kept their shirts.

 

[oldravendale]

On the right of 5976, is what appears to be the vertical "tube" of a water softening plant, and probably a second one beyond the water tank.
Lewes station had one of these, rarely seen in photos, as it was across the road on the "Brighton" side, together with the station's water tank.

Yes, that is the Southall water softening plant, Barry. It appears in several of my own photos as well as a number of those Tim took around Southall Shed.

Britannia 70011 Hotspur between Kelvedon and Marks Tey in Essex on 8th October 1958. It went to Norwich Thorpe when new in May 1951 then March in October 1961. In December 1963 it went to Carlisle Kingmoor, Upperby in February 1965 and back to Kingmoor in December 1966 where it was withdrawn almost exactly a year later. (SLS). It was scrapped at J McWilliams Shettleston in March 1968. (BR Database).



Stanier 2-6-4T 42611 at South Hampstead Station on empty stock going up to Euston on 27th September 1958. According to the SLS the loco was allocated to Bangor until the 4 weeks ending 4th October 1958 when it moved to Willesden, so it was very new to the big city. It moved back to Bangor in August 1961 and bounced back to Willesden less than a month later and Tebay in August 1966 before ending up at Lostock Hall in January 1967 and withdrawal the following May. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore’s, Great Bridge, in September 1967. (BR Database).



Royal Scot 46139 The Welch Regiment at South Hampstead Station on an up fast train on 27th September 1958. The Scot was a Camden engine from June 1947 and moved to Kentish Town on loan in November 1959 before being allocated there in January 1960. It then went to Newton Heath where it was withdrawn in October 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Crewe Works where the remains were seen on 12th May 1963. (RO).



Rebuilt Patriot 45522 Prestatyn at South Hampstead Station on an up fast train on 27th September 1958. The Patriot had been a Camden engine since June 1950, loaned to Kentish Town in November 1959 where the allocation was made permanent in January 1960. It then it went to Newton Heath in September 1961 and its final shed was Longsight in July 1963 from where it was withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It went to Central Wagon Co, Ince, Wigan where it was scrapped by the end of June 1965. (Rail UK).



There will follow a short break looking at a few photos Tim took in Ireland, hopefully starting tomorrow....

Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Great photos, as always, Brian.
I do think that last photo (Rebuilt Patriot) is another up train as the features in the surroundings are the same as the two previous shots.
Dave.