Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Thanks again Martin @Martin Shaw . Yes, I'm comfortable with the photo of 68309 being at Gateshead as proposed by Tim. Thanks for the run down on the V2 as well.

Paul @BillyRuffian - Thank you for applying so much effort to locating and confirming locations. I'm satisfied that the B16 photo is on shed the only real question being where, a question you've answered and which I've added to the commentary. I agree that a B16/V3 combination at the head of any sort of train is unlikely although, as we've seen from others of Tim's photos, some assumptions can easily be shattered by photographic evidence.

Arun. As ever your additional detail and the WHTS background is so helpful. Thank you.

Class J27 0-6-0 65837 probably from Heaton Station on 6th November 1958. The loco was allocated to Blyth (North) from October 1957 (BR Database) and withdrawn in October 1962 (SLS). According to Yeadons it entered Darlington Works for disposal on 23rd January 1963 although BR Database gives a scrapping date of November 1962.

Edit: The identification of the loco is incorrect. It's 65656, a J25 and Gateshead engine which lasted until Aug 59, so Tim's photo was prescient as there wasn't so many of them and the class was extinct by 1961. This was also one of the forty J25s loaned to the GWR from 1940 - 46 to replace Dean Goods locos requisitioned by the government for war service.

65656 Sunderland 11/98, GWR 1/40, York 12/11/46, Malton 1/10/50, York 23/1/55, Neville Hill 27/11/55, Heaton 22/1/56, Gateshead 8/3/59, Wdn 14/8/59, Cut up at Gateshead. 42 years at Sunderland seems unlikely but entirely possible.

Based upon the previous images the J25 is at the north end of Heaton sidings, rather than the station where there were no goods facilities.



Caledonian Class 652 0-6-0 57645 on shed at Dalry Road, Edinburgh, on 18th January 1959. This was home shed for the loco where it had lived since at least January 1948. (BR Database). It was withdrawn in November 1962. (SLS). It was then seen at Inverurie Works on 21st January to 8th February 1963 and cut up between 4th February and 29th March 1963 (SLS) although WHTS reports it as observed on 13th April 1963 and BR Database that it wasn’t actually scrapped until May 1963.



Two photos here of LMS 2F 0-6-0T 47162 on shed at Dalry Road Shed in Edinburgh on 18th January 1959. It was allocated to St Margarets in January 1950, went in to store in March 1959 and was withdrawn in the following December. (SLS). WHTS advises it went to Cowlairs Works for disposal but verification is required. BR Database advises the disposal was complete in January 1960.





McIntosh 3F 0-6-0T 56312 on shed at Dalry Road, Edinburgh on 18th January 1959. The loco had been allocated to Dalry Road since at least January 1948 (BR Database) and moved to Dumfries in November 1960, being withdrawn in May 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped during June 1963 at Arnott Young, Troon. (BR Database).



McIntosh 812 Class 3F 0-6-0 57550 at Dalry Road Shed, Edinburgh, on 18th January 1959. This was at Dalry Road from at least January 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn at the end of December 1962 when it went to Arnott Young, Carmyle, where it was scrapped in June 1964. (BR Database).


Brian

 

[Heather Kay]

Ooh! A 2F dock tank! My favourite.

(I really should dig my build out of the Attic of Shame and see if I can get it finished.)

 

[timbowales]

Brian, I don't think that's a J27 at Heaton, the boiler is far too small. Also the number appears to be different to that quoted?
Lovely little train though, 2 shocvans and a brake

 

[Genghis]

If

Brian, I don't think that's a J27 at Heaton, the boiler is far too small. Also the number appears to be different to that quoted?
Lovely little train though, 2 shocvans and a brake

If my eyes are correct it’s J24 65636.

 

[Martin Shaw]

If

If my eyes are correct it’s J24 65636.

David
Sorry no, it's 65656, a J25 and Gateshead engine which lasted until Aug 59, so Tim's photo was prescient as there wasn't so many of them and the class was extinct by 1961. This was also one of the forty J25s loaned to the GWR from 1940 - 46 to replace Dean Goods locos requisitioned by the government for war service.

65656 Sunderland 11/98, GWR 1/40, York 12/11/46, Malton 1/10/50, York 23/1/55, Neville Hill 27/11/55, Heaton 22/1/56, Gateshead 8/3/59, Wdn 14/8/59, Cut up at Gateshead. 42 years at Sunderland seems unlikely but entirely possible I suppose.

65636 was a J24 however it was withdrawn in December 1950.

Martin

 

[Arun Sharma]

The photos of St Margarets are interesting. They illustrate the point made in the early '50s by Edinburgh's chief public health medical officer that closing St Margarets would be the single greatest public health measure to improve the city's population's health. For some reason, the depot was smokier than most.

 

[BillyRuffian]

Based upon the previous images, I think the J25 is at the north end of Heaton sidings, rather than the station where I don't think there were goods facilities. The end-on view of the terraced houses/flats in the distance seems to fit with the Brdatabase map in my previous post.

Pure speculation of course, but the shocvans make me think that this could be a trip working for the long-serving biscuit factory at Shieldfield, between Heaton and Newcastle (which is now an art gallery).

I can't definitely pin down the building beyond Gateshead shed, but it may have disappeared in the past 60+ years of course.

Paul

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you all. I agree that J27 is a J25. It's another error I should have picked up just by looking at the photo properly. I'll re-write the commentary by way of an edit.

Delighted you like the dock tank, Heather. I fear there is only the single photo of that class in the collection but I can never tell what might be dredged up. Your build should be interesting, when you get to it. I'll not let anyone else know.

Thanks fo yours about St Margarets as well, Arun. I've never heard that comment applied to steam sheds although they could certainly be smoky and were usually grimy affairs.

Paul @BillyRuffian - thanks for your further and better particulars. I'll adjust the location of the J25 in the edit and appreciate your thought about the shocvans possibly on a transfer freight.

Another loco at Dalry Road Shed, Edinburgh, on 18th January 1959 was 55229. This McIntosh 439 Class 2P 0-4-4T was allocated there in December 1945, went in to store in July 1961and was withdrawn the following September. (SLS). Disposal was at Inverurie Works where it was cut up by 18th April 1962 although the remains were seen there on 2nd June 1962. (SLS).



A3 60037 Hyperion on Glasgow to Bristol train passing Haymarket Shed, Edinburgh, and giving a good impression of Turner’s “Rain, Steam and Speed” for the 20th Century on 18th January 1959. The loco was allocated to Haymarket in March 1954, then St Margarets in November 1961 where it was withdrawn in December 1963. (SLS). It ws scrapped in June 1964 at Arnott Young, Carmyle. (BR Database).



D11/2 4-4-0 62694 James Fitzjames on shed at Haymarket, Edinburgh on 18th January 1959. It had been at Haymarket since at least January 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in November 1959. (SLS). It was scrapped at Arnott Young, Carmyle, in February 1960. (BR Database).



At Haymarket Shed on 18th January 1959 was D49 62743 The Cleveland. This had been allocated to Haymarket in January 1951 and was withdrawn in May 1960. Scrapping followed at Darlington where it was seen partly cut up on 29th May 1960 (RO) and BR Database confirm the job was complete by the following July.



D49 4-4-0 62705 Lanarkshire on shed at Haymarket, Edinburgh on 18th January 1959. There’s some confusion here as BR Database advises it was at Haymarket from at least January 1948 until withdrawn in November 1959 but the SLS report a withdrawal date from Darlington of November 1945 and another withdrawal date which agrees with BR Database which rather smacks of finger trouble when transferring data. However, it was scrapped in January 1960 at Darlington where it was seen intact in the scrapyard on 10th January 1960. (RO).




Brian

 

[Heather Kay]

when you get to it. I'll not let anyone else know.

I have a dormant thread, last dusted lightly a decade ago.

Thread 'On Heather's Workbench - Coleman's Baby'
On Heather's Workbench - Coleman's Baby

No hijack intended, of course. I can hear ominous rattling coming from the attic, which means I shall at least dig the box out and peer at it for a while before returning it to deep storage.

 

[oldravendale]

I have a dormant thread, last dusted lightly a decade ago.

Thread 'On Heather's Workbench - Coleman's Baby'
On Heather's Workbench - Coleman's Baby

No hijack intended, of course. I can hear ominous rattling coming from the attic, which means I shall at least dig the box out and peer at it for a while before returning it to deep storage.

 

[Dave Holt]

Regarding the photo of 60037, going via Edinburgh seems a rather circuitous route to get from Glasgow to Bristol. Perhaps the experts can elucidate?
Dave.

 

[timbowales]

Regarding the photo of 60037, going via Edinburgh seems a rather circuitous route to get from Glasgow to Bristol. Perhaps the experts can elucidate?
Dave.

Perfectly feasible if the service was an ex-NBR service?

 

[40057]

Regarding the photo of 60037, going via Edinburgh seems a rather circuitous route to get from Glasgow to Bristol. Perhaps the experts can elucidate?
Dave.

Has been the usual route for X-Country services in recent times. Very, very few would travel from Glasgow to Bristol, of course. But it’s a through service from Glasgow to York, Darlington to Bristol etc etc etc.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for the comments about the photo of the A3, Dave @Dave Holt , Tim @timbowales and @40057. It's a comfort to know that this is one description that won't need changing. However I'll add the comments to the accompanying info as it's all useful stuff.

J88 0-6-0T 68320 on shed at Haymarket on 18th January 1959. BR Database advises that this loco was at St Margarets from at least January 1948 and was withdrawn in June 1960, a date with which the SLS agrees. It went to Cowlairs for scrapping which probably occurred in December 1960. (RO).



D11/2 62690 The Lady of the Lake on shed at Haymarket, Edinburgh, on 18th January 1959. This was a Haymarket engine from at least January 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in July 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped at Inverurie Works (WHTS) in September 1961. (BR Database).



Here’s a rather interesting loco - J36 0-6-0 65235 here on shed at Haymarket on 18th January 1959. It was new in August 1891 and loaned out of service to the WD/ROD in October 1917. It served in France and was returned from ROD service in April 1919. In April 1919 it was named Gough, a name which was removed in April 1944 although there’s a suggestion it was restored in January 1949 although it doesn’t appear to be carrying a name in Tim’s photo. As a side note one of the 1958 Combined Volumes lists it with the name. By January 1948 it was at Bathgate. (BR Database). In May 1952 it moved to Haymarket and was withdrawn in October 1961. (SLS). It was scrapped in June 1963 at Arnott Young, Old Kilpatrick. (BR Database).



N15 0-6-2T 69220 on shed at Haymarket on 18th January 1959. This was domiciled at Haymarket from at least January 1948 (BR Database) and was withdrawn in November 1958. (SLS). The SLS report the loco as stored in March 1959 and BR Database that it was eventually scrapped at Kilmarnock Works in June 1959.



Another loco at St Margarets from at least January 1948 was D34 62471 Glen Falloch (BR Database) here sporting a snow plough and on shed at St Margarets, Edinburgh on 18th January 1959. It was withdrawn in March 1960 (SLS) and scrapped at Connell’s, Calder, Coatbridge (WHTS, although verification is required) during July 1960. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[barrowroad]

Dave, It does seem strange. The 1958 and 1960 Timetables I have show only Newcastle to Bristol and vici versa. No Glasgow service shown via the East Coast. Perhaps this is a connecting Glasgow to Newcastle service.
Robin

Regarding the photo of 60037, going via Edinburgh seems a rather circuitous route to get from Glasgow to Bristol. Perhaps the experts can elucidate?
Dave.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Brian
A few notes, all from Yeadon.
68320 Burntisland 12/04, Dunfermline 22/7/33, St Margarets 4/34, Wdn 6/6/60, Cut up Cowlairs 12/11/60.

62690 The Lady of the Lake, Eastfield 7/11/24, Haymarket x/32, Wdn 13/7/61, Cut up Heatheryknowe (Bargeddie)14/10/61.

65235 Gough, Thornton Junc 8/91, Bathgate 20/7/37, Haymarket 12/52, Wdn 25/10/61.
General Overhaul at Inverurie 18/3 - 15/4/44 Name removed.
Heavy/Intermediate overhaul at Inverurie 22/12/48 - 28/1/49 Name reinstated.
There may be the merest hint of a painted name beneath the grime above the worksplate on the centre splasher

69220 Haymarket 1/3/24, Wdn 18/11/58. A complete working life at one shed must be relatively unusual, but see below. I have no info on cutting up but Kilmarnock sound less likely but not impossible. It may well have gone into the dump at Bo'ness for a while but Cowlairs seems much more likely as a final destination. Kilmarnock works was by that time an outpost of the C&W department for wagon repairs. Use of outside contractors didn't occur until a year or so later.

62471 Glen Falloch, St Margarets 12/13, Wdn 24/3/60, Cut up Inverurie 29/4/60.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for further thoughts about the A3 train, Robin @barrowroad and also Martin @Martin Shaw for expanding the info about the locos.

Here’s a loco with an interesting life. It’s Y9 0-4-0ST 68095 with a timber tender on shed at St Margarets on 18th January 1959. It’s interesting (to me at least) to go back to the first information I can find from the SLS. In March 1946 the loco was allocated to St Margarets. In February 1950 it went on hire to Caldwell’s Paper Mills, Inverkeithing. It came back to St Margarets later the same month but then went to Inveresk Paper Company, Musselburgh in March 1952 and was back to St Margarets a month or so later. Next, in November 1952 it was on hire to the Air Ministrry at Leuchars returning home in the following December. Then, in February 1954 it went to J A Weir Ltd at Kilbagie for a month and finally to British Malt Products in February 1955 for a longer hire as it didn’t return home until the following June. St Margarets retired the loco in December 1962. I, personally, have no record of any BR locomotive which was hired quite so often outside the organisation in steam days although I suspect this practice became more common with dieselisation.

When it was withdrawn from service in December 1962 it was purchased by Jim Morris whilst it was in McWilliam’s Shettleston scrapyard and was displayed at his Lytham Transport Museum as further described in 68095 (NBR 42, LNER 9042 & BR 68095).



J83 0-6-0T 68472 on shed at Saint Margarets on 18th January 1959. BR Database tells us that the loco was at St Margarets from at least January 1948 and the SLS that it was withdrawn in February 1962. On 2nd August 1962 it was in store at Polmont MPD and according to the SLS it was en route to Boness dump at Clarkston for scrap on 31st July. Yeadons advise, however, that it was scrapped at Campbells, Airdrie, on 31st July 1962.

Edit: Presumably this should read from Bo'ness dump to Clarkston although I think Yeadon is more likely.



67492, a C16 4-4-2T at Saint Margarets Shed, Edinburgh, on 18th January 1959. It’s another loco that was allocated to St Margarets as long ago as January 1948 (BR Database) and was let out on hire to Craigentinny Gas Works in November 1958 before withdrawal in March 1960. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cowlairs Works in April 1960 (RO) although BR Database proposes a date of March in the same year.



Brian

 

[Lyndhurstman]

I'm here frothing over the (relatively rare) sighting of a pressed door mineral Prototype - Tim Mills' Photos

Cheers

Jan

 

[Rob R]

Ooh! A 2F dock tank! My favourite.

(I really should dig my build out of the Attic of Shame and see if I can get it finished.)

Heather,
A couple of Dock Tank piccies here
A day out in Birkenhead

 

[Arun Sharma]

Brian - I have an idea that the ex-SECR P class locos were regularly hired out to paper companies - Bowaters springs to mind.

Do you know if there was ever a kit [7mm scale of course] of 68095?