Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Slippery Bu**ers, eh?

 

[simond]

buffers, surely?

 

[oldravendale]

buffers, surely?

Moving rapidly on...

Castle 4085 Berkeley Castle on a down Paignton express at Old Oak Common on 1st August 1961. We've seen this very recently on the same day, in post #2813 backing down to Paddington. 4085 was an Old Oak engine in 1961. It was withdrawn in May 1962. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's, Newport for disposal which was completed in October the same year. (BR Database).



Rebuilt West Country 34001 Exeter on an up express at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. We saw this loco fresh out of works as long ago as post #350. By May 1961 it was at Nine Elms, then Eastleigh in September 1964 and finally back to Nine Elms where it lasted to the bitter end on 9th July 1967 (SLS) - I took a photo there of it in steam and looking in very decent condition on 6th July. Nevertheless it was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport, in October 1967. (BR Database).



Standard Class 5 73083 Pendragon on an up express at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. Always a Southern engine it was at Nine Elms by June 1959, went to Feltham in September 1964 and back to Nine Elms in November the same year, being withdrawn in September 1966. (SLS). It also succumbed at Cashmore's, Newport, but in February 1967. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Merchant Navy 35006 Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company on an up express at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. This has been in these pages previously around post #950, but not as early as this shot. The loco had been a long term resident of Salisbury, since around 1948 in fact, and was withdrawn in August 1964. (BR Database). It went to Woodham Bros and has since been restored on the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway.


Another Merchant Navy, 35025 on a down express at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. This was an Exmouth Junction since February 1960 engine being withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It went to Barry and has been under restoration since then - see 35025 Brocklebank Line



Standard Class 4 2-6-0 76014 on down empty stock at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. This was allocated to Eastleigh in January 1957, moved to Bournemouth in October 1964 and was withdrawn in September 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at Buttigiegs, Newport, in January 1967.




Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Urie S15 30506 on an up Basingstoke train at Wimbledon 29th July 1961. Although intended for freight work these locos always looked more at home on passenger trains to my eye. I guess some of that is down to their N15 antecedents. 30506 has appeared previously in my "Barry" thread. It had lived at Feltham since at least 1948 and on withdrawal in January 1964 (SLS & BR Database) went to Woodham's, Barry, where it was rescued in March 1973 and is now restored on the Mid Hants Railway. 30506 (LSWR 506, SR E506, SR 506 & BR 30506)



Rebuilt West Country 34005 Barnstaple on an up express at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. This was on the Salisbury allocation and had been since February 1961. In October 1965 it moved to Bournemouth and was withdrawn a year later. It went to Buttigiegs, Newport, where it was scrapped during October 1967. (Rail UK & BR Database).



Merchant Navy 35019 French Line CGT on the down Royal Wessex at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. It had been a Nine Elms engine since 1948, going to Weymouth (Radipole) in September 1964 where it was withdrawn a year later. (SLS). It ended up at Cashmore's, Newport where it was scrapped in January 1966.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Standard Class 5 73110 The Red Knight on an up Southampton train at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. It had been at Nine Elms since new in 1955, moved to Eastleigh in September 1964 and then Guildford in October 1965 where it was withdrawn in January 1967. (SLS and BR Database). It was scrapped in June 1967 at Cashmore's Newport. (BR Database)



Rebuilt Battle of Britain 34053 Sir Keith Park on a down express at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. It had been at Salisbury since June 1951, migrating to Bournemouth in February 1960 where it was withdrawn in October 1965. (SLS). It arrived in Barry in March 1966 and left in 1984, having been purchased in 1979. For further details of its continuing life in preservation see 34053 Sir Keith Park (SR 21C153 & BR 34053)



Original West Country 34105 Swanage on an up express at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. This view suggests that the wide cab loco and narrow tender, probably swapped to one of the rebuilt locos is obvious. This is one of the final batch with 9ft cabs. It had been a Bournemouth engine since December 1951, being withdrawn in October 1964 from Eastleigh where it had been allocated in September. (SLS). It arrived at Barry in February 1965. In March 1978 it moved to the Mid Hants. It was restored to steam in 1987. It was under overhaul in 2020 but there was hope that it would be back in service in 2021. I have no more recent info. See 34105 Swanage



This may or may not be the last post on this thread until after Christmas so it's my opportunity to thank everyone who continues to take an interest, particularly those who have stuck with Tim and me since post #1 way back in January 2021. Many thanks to those who have corrected errors in the descriptions, expanded descriptions with locations and historical detail and personal memories. Tim's family continue to be delighted with your input. You may be pleased to know that we have at least anther year of material before we even start looking at the colour files.

I hope all WT- ers will have a wonderful Christmas and a Happy and above all Healthy New Year.

Brian

 

[simond]

I’m not able to offer very much in the correcting errors in the descriptions, expanding descriptions with locations and historical detail or even personal memories, but I am thoroughly enjoying the thread.

have a great Christmas!
Simon

 

[dibateg]

I was interested in the B1 with the non-corridor stock at Neasden. There was an outer stopping service that ran to Brackley as well as couple that went as far as Woodford and I think that ran to 6 or 7 coaches. They might well have stopped in March 63 with the other local services on the GC.

For followers of the GC main line Delmi Battersby has a superb album on Facebook of GC line photos - he lived at Brackley in the early 60s.

Facebook

www.facebook.com

Regards
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Simon, for your kind comments and for the continuing interest by so many. And Tony - what an archive that turns out to be. Thank you.

No pics today but more will follow for sure. I've reviewed what I have here and it becomes obvious that some of Tim's photos are of, let's say, minority interest. He took quite a lot of traction engines, cars, London architecture and even more of London buses, particularly RTs and RMs. These are in colour. So, as I know little about these subjects I'll be putting them up on WT with Tim's original description, perhaps with a vehicle ID if I can work that out as an addition to the continuing stream of black and white photographs. In fact, as there are quite a few of a visit to Germany they may follow the same process.

All I ask is, please, to those of you who have more expansive and better knowledge of the vehicles or their locations let me know where details are incorrect or can be improved. You've all done me proud so far and as these are all transport interests will doubtless ring certain bells with a number of WT participants.

We'll be back very soon, and there remain some cracking images to come.

Brian

 

[Roger Pound]

Thank you for the many fine pictures over the past year Brian - they created many excellent trips down memory lane for me. I am really looking forward to seeing what Tim photographed in Germany in particular, having had considerable interest in the railway system there for many years. I will endeavour to help if and when I can. In the meantime, a Happy and Prosperous New Year to you.

Roger

 

[oldravendale]

I much appreciate your comment, Roger, and thank you for your kind additions and memories. Thanks for your New Year wishes too - Happy New Year to you and to all WT-ers.

We'll start a couple of the German photos at the bottom of this post, but more regular fare to start with. There may be one or two interruptions associated with the mayhem which is the over run of Christmas and the gearing up for New Year before we get back in to regular postings.

A locomotive with a very personal history for me. It's rebuilt West Country 34039 Boscastle on an up express at Wimbledon on 29th July 1961. Home shed had been Bournemouth since January 1959. It moved to Eastleigh in September 1962 where it was withdrawn in May 1965. (SLS). I photographed this very engine at Eastleigh as withdrawn in September 1965 shortly before it moved to Woodham Bros at Barry in the same month having no idea how I'd become associated with it later. It left Barry in January 1973 for the erstwhile Great Central Railway at Loughbrough where I'd been a founder member since 1969. It was the first main line loco to arrive. It eventually steamed in 1992 but following some issues with the firebox was withdrawn in 1996 for a complete rebuild. This was proceeding well until July 2022 when the parts storage container at Loughborough was broken in to and many parts stolen. Since then negotiations have been in hand with the insurance company who have now made an interim payment of £50,000, although the estimated replacement value of the now missing parts is probably nearer double that amount.



This is the next roll of film and is a view from the train at an unidentified location. I believe this is probably some time between March and May (now updated to between May and August) in 1961 based on the remaining pictures on the roll refining the date but help in suggesting a possible location will be welcomed.

Edit. Latest information confirms this to be Bordesley Marshalling Yard looking south towards Small Heath. The bridge in the background carries Jenkins Street.



9F 92165 in Saltley Shed Yard carrying a 21A shed code which fits with date not known but probably between March and May (now updated to between May and August) 1961. It went to Saltley when new in April 1958, moved to Bidston in June 1962, then Bikenhead Mollington Street and Speke Junction in November 1967 where it was withdrawn in March 1968. (BR Database and SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport in June the same year.



The bonus picture here is identified as oil burning Pacific 012 080-8 Rheine - Emden at Rheine in March 1974. More details, please, if known for all these German photos.

The DB photos titled Rheine-Emden with the catenary are all at Rheine Bhf.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

I believe this to be 51XX 2-6-2T 5192 in store in Tyseley Shed Yard, probably between March and May (now updated to between May and August) 1961. I've considered alternatives - 5163 was a Tyseley engine but withdrawn in 1959. I initially read the number as 5169 but this was withdrawn in 1960. 5192 was at Tyseley from October 1954, moving to Leamington in November 1961 and Stourbridge Junction in May 1962. (SLS). It was withdrawn at the end of June 1963 and was scrapped at Swindon Works by the end of September. (Rail UK).



2884 class 3851 in Tyseley Shed Yard probably between March and May (now updated to between May and August) 1961. Home shed had been Llanelli since 1949, then Didcot in June 1964 and Southall in January 1965 where it was withdrawn in July. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport, in October. (BR Database).



28XX 2842 in Tyseley Shed Yard probably between March and May (now updated to between May and August) 1961. This was at Reading in February 1960, moving to Didcot in December 1961 where it was wthdrawn in September 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Coopers Metals, Sharpness, by the end of July 1964.




The German photos for today follow the one of 012 080-8 above so are probably the train being double headed by that loco. Location remains Rheine - Emden in March 1974. Edit: Br 44 2-10-0s confirmed as Br 44 Öl - DB Umbau Br 043.

The DB photos titled Rheine-Emden with the catenary are all at Rheine Bhf.







Brian

 

[Roger Pound]

Thank you for the DB pictures, Brian. I would venture that the double headed train is hauled by a pair of Br 44 locos. These are 2-10-0 heavy goods locos and although the driving wheels are pretty well obscured by steam there does appear to be a greater gap between the top of them and the running plate than there is on the Br 012. This is only a guess on my part which someone may be able to correct, but the use of Br 01 variants on a mineral train such as this is, I would hazard, somewhat unlikely.

My thanks again.

Roger

 

[Martin Shaw]

Re the unknown location in IMG#2538 I suspect WR because of two GWR Toad brakevans visible in the sidings to the left, and the rear of a signal which looks distinctively lower quadrant. Despite the point rodding and signal wires there aren't many signals to be seen so my first stab is Old Oak Common West, the line coming in between the buildings being the line from Ruislip etc. The bridge in the distance could be the railway and road around Mitre Bridge. There is a tower on the skyline which has a distinct outline which might help. I am by no means convinced, a glance at the NLS map doesn't seem to fit well.
Martin

 

[Genghis]

The photos at Rheine remind me of Easter 1975 when I should have been revising for my finals, but fancied a trip to photograph the last pacifics in action. I first went there in 1972 and was amazed by the double headed 2-10-0s on the 4000tonne ore trains running from the port at Emden to the steelworks in the Ruhr.

David
PS. I still passed!

 

[Arun Sharma]

92165 is interesting as it is one of the three 9F which had a BR1K tender and were fitted with a coal pulveriser & mechanical stoker. As a result they had to be specially coaled with specially sized lumps. In Vol 2 of his Saltley Firing Days book, Terry Esserey [?brother of Bob?] tells of a nightmare trip firing one of these three 9Fs from Saltley to Carlisle when its pulveriser had broken. Because the firebox door was modified to accept the output from the pulveriser, the fire hole was effectively smaller than normal. He therefore had to continually break up all the coal into smaller lumps as well as then get them into the hole. He also reports that the experiment with mechanical stoking was not considered a sucess due to mechanical difficulties as well as not having the right sized coal in the various places where these engines would reload. All three engines were soon [?1959] converted back to normal firing. Whether the ID plates on the tender backs were changed from BR1K to BR1C is not known - added later The RCTS BR Standards Vol4 which covers the 9F states that the "K" tenders were originally modified "C" type so that upon removal of their mechanical stokers, they would have had the appearance of being "C" tenders.

 

[AJC]

Re the unknown location in IMG#2538 I suspect WR because of two GWR Toad brakevans visible in the sidings to the left, and the rear of a signal which looks distinctively lower quadrant. Despite the point rodding and signal wires there aren't many signals to be seen so my first stab is Old Oak Common West, the line coming in between the buildings being the line from Ruislip etc. The bridge in the distance could be the railway and road around Mitre Bridge. There is a tower on the skyline which has a distinct outline which might help. I am by no means convinced, a glance at the NLS map doesn't seem to fit well.
Martin

I'd agree about the signal, but wouldn't set much store by the brakevans - there's certainly an ex-SR one visible and, going on the rooflines, a Stanier-era LMS one, too. Despite the WR's best efforts (and the brake being in the open), GW toads certainly got about.

Adam

 

[Brian Daniels]

Recon the window hanging shot is Bordesley. Bridge looks like this one over my train with 37217+37213 on 01-04-88

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

This is the next roll of film and is a view from the train at an unidentified location. I believe this is probably some time between March and May in 1961. The remaining pictures on the roll may help refine the date but help in suggesting a possible location will be welcomed.

Re the unknown location in IMG#2538 I suspect WR because of two GWR Toad brakevans visible in the sidings to the left, and the rear of a signal which looks distinctively lower quadrant. Despite the point rodding and signal wires there aren't many signals to be seen so my first stab is Old Oak Common West, the line coming in between the buildings being the line from Ruislip etc. The bridge in the distance could be the railway and road around Mitre Bridge. There is a tower on the skyline which has a distinct outline which might help. I am by no means convinced, a glance at the NLS map doesn't seem to fit well.

Martin, you were correct with GW. It's Bordesley Marshalling Yard looking south towards Small Heath. The bridge in the background carries Jenkins Street.

There is a view on Warwickshire Railways and I think their caption is incorrect as I think it's looking north. Bordesley Station: View of Bordesley Goods Yard looking south towards Small Heath station and showing Small Heath Road bridge crossing the GWR line in the distance

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I would venture that the double headed train is hauled by a pair of Br 44 locos. These are 2-10-0 heavy goods locos and although the driving wheels are pretty well obscured by steam there does appear to be a greater gap between the top of them and the running plate than there is on the Br 012.

Yes, they are Br 44 Öl - DB Umbau Br 043.