Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Thanks for the additional info, Dave et al. The new info continues to flow in! The SLS reported on 31st October 1947 "No. 16032 (Boiler Class N7, No. 2083) arrived on Works (at St Rollox) on 30/9, and was despatched to Crewe on 16/10, in two wagons." Also, on 19th October, "Probably the most interesting incident here during the past month was the arrival on 19/10 of ex C.R. 0-4-OST No. 16032, bearing a 31E shed plate. The engine arrived on a well-wagon, minus its wheels and motion. These were conveyed separately and subsequently assembled in the Erecting Shop. The engine has now joined the ranks of the Works' shunting locos."

Even greater confirmation that the photo is at Crewe, not St Rollox.

I've also done another paint job on the original. Not easy as it's far from the sharpest or best exposed photo I've ever seen, but there's no longer a lamp standard growing out of the tank top. Contrast is also tweaked.



Tim has named this "Eastfield MPD. August 1955". It's 68120, a North British G Class 0-4-0ST, LNER Y9 with characteristic wooden tender. It may well be withdrawn as BRDatabase advises it as withdrawn that same August. In 1952 there were two Y9s allocated to Eastfield, although not this one. I can't find any mention of Y9s at Eastfield later, but my Locoshed books go only as far back as 1957 so if anyone has an earlier copy, from 1954 - 1955 perhaps they'd be kind enough to check whether an allocation is shown for 68120.



Brian

 

[Crimson Rambler]

According to British Railways Locomotive Allocations by Hugh Longworth No. 68120 was at Kipps 65E between 1948 and 1954. The book gives allocations at three year intervals so there is no entry for 1957 as the engine was by then no more.


Crimson Rambler

 

[JimG]

Note the family ressemblance. Drummond, when he was at the North British built these locos, based on the same Neilsen pug as his ones on the Caledonian.

Jim.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Crimson Rambler. That suggests that 68120 may have been moved to Eastfield for disposal. That's just surmise, though, after all, why bother? Things happened differently in those days. In view of the potential errors in Tim's records at this time it's possible that he actually took this photo at Kipps, although there are no others. Is there anything to be gained by looking at the shed details? There are road numbers overhead. Was this a regular occurrence?

Yep, family resemblance noted, Jim. He didn't get it all wrong, did he? This one lasted for 56 years!

Brian

 

[LarryG]

True. Many of Drummonds locos lasted well because they were robustly built and because of 'quasi-standardization.

 

[oldravendale]

Having looked at the photo again I note that there is a "ticket" attached to the cab handrail. That's typical of locos in the late 50s and 60s which were going for scrap. I have several at Southall exhibiting the same characteristic. It may be yet another indication that this loco had reached "the end of the line".

Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

It's definitely Eastfield, which was a 14 road through shed, there isn't anywhere else that was this size. Yeadon is no help re sheds but elsewhere I have established that it was withdrawn from Kipps 10/8/55 so it's on it's way to cutting up at Cowlairs. By this time it's internal ownership had passed from the motive power department to the sales controller who was responsible for realisation of scrap assets. That it was all done in house by the same organisation is no bar to beaurocracy. Brian has very correctly identified the label tied to the handrail as being the transfer document for a parcel, strange but that was the identification, from one bit of the organisation to another.

Back in the day when I worked for the LMR S&T (around 75 I guess) I had to pick up a PABX selector shelf from the WR at Reading which was duly given into my care with a label, marked "GWR Signal Works Reading" and hand addressed "LMSR Euston". I got a very old fashioned look from the smartly dressed foreman old enough to be my grandfather when I questioned this.
Regards
Martin

 

[AJC]

That sounds about right, Martin. Those regional/big four alliances die very slowly.

And from the day job, the number of departments involved in moving on the Minehead branch that have a presence in the sale file held at Kew was impressive.

Adam

[EDIT - the references, should you be so inclined, are The National Archives, AN 169/452 and AN 169/453; I can particularly recommend the correspondence between the BRB and the retired Indian Army officer who was not at all happy with the idea of the preservationists running trains past the bottom of his garden again - that occupied three departments on its own and a submission objecting to the grant of the Light Railway Order: pure Titfield! This is massively off topic...]

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for that confirmation, Martin. It confirms what we thought we knew.

"Polmadie MPD. August 1955." It's McIntosh/Caledonian Class 498 56160, a long time resident of Polmadie since at least 1948 and eventually withdrawn at the end of July 1959. (BR Database). The Railway Observer advises it went to Connell's, Calder, Coatbridge and BR Database that it was scrapped in November 1959.


Brian

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Common name’Beetle Crusher’

 

[JimG]

Better known as "Beetlecrushers" .

Jim.

SNAP - didn't see Ian's message.

 

[simond]

I've got a 3 1/2" gauge one of them to finish one day. It's been in a crate since we moved to India in 2007. It's on a shelf at the top of the garage, has been since I built the shelves when we came back in 2010. I suspect "one day" is not likely to be tomorrow...

Were the guard irons designed like that or a result of it coming off once or twice?

atb
Simon

 

[JimG]

McIntosh only built two of these locos. It was specifically designed to work the Brady Eclipse Works in Glasgow and the first loco, No. 498, was shedded at St. Rollox to do this. Hence the original nickname for the class with railwaymen was the "Braby Pug". One assumes that working that factory was quite heavy and on tight curves which might have pushed the Drummond 0-4-0 pugs and the Class 498 had almost twice the tractive effort and had a minimum working radius close to the pugs. McIntosh's successor, William Pickergill, built another twenty-one.

Jim.

 

[oldravendale]

"Beetlecrusher", eh? Certainly not a term I've heard previously, and thanks for all the additional stuff, Jim. It will be added to the collected data for this photo. Speaking of which, I'm lagging far behind in updating recent images with all the extra info so there may be a short break while I get it all together and the images and data preserved. I also have to put all the stuff so far in a package to Tim.

Anyway, for today we have this. Another of the less inspiring photos entitled "Motherwell MPD. August 1955." It's Fairburn 2-6-4T 42200 which started life at Polmadie in March 1959 before being transferred to Motherwell at the end of November 1950 from where it was withdrawn in June 1964. (SLS). It then went to Motherwell Machinery & Scrap at Wishaw (RO) where it was scrapped in September 1964. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Dangerous Davies]

Some nasty dents in the tank of 42200!

Keep the pictures coming Brian, they show a different aspect of the railway to that normally shown.

Cheers

Dave

 

[JimG]

It looks as though the loco has some embellishments on the front end - the outlined number plate which may have had non-standard colouring, the disc behind the smokebox handle, and the frame edges picked out in a different colour. Some locos also had the hinge straps picked out in a different colour. This was fairly common on ex-LMS sheds on Clydeside - Corkerhill being another. I recently found out that it was also common at some ex-LMS sheds in England.

Jim.

[LATER] Just noticed that the handrail ends and the hinge bar seem to be treated as well.

 

[oldravendale]

I'd noticed that too, Jim. It's very difficult to say from a B & W photo but it looks to me as though that number plate is a bit lighter in hue. Could it have been painted blue, I wonder? I know there is evidence of blue number plates on some Scottish locos.

Smokebox embellishments have been seen on some previous photos too, although they are perhaps not quite as evident. Those of 54441 and 40576 are examples.

Brian

 

[LarryG]

Such scrapes could occur in marshalling yards especially after dark. An example would be fly-shunted wagons bouncing back a few yards leaving insufficient clearance near the points when a loco was switched to an adjacent road. Been there and worn the tee-shirt. In typical Pennine downpours, we almost blindly followed instructions from the shunters lamp.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

I'd noticed that too, Jim. It's very difficult to say from a B & W photo but it looks to me as though that number plate is a bit lighter in hue. Could it have been painted blue, I wonder? I know there is evidence of blue number plates on some Scottish locos.

Smokebox embellishments have been seen on some previous photos too, although they are perhaps not quite as evident. Those of 54441 and 40576 are examples.

Brian

Brian,

Smokebox number plates were most often red with white numbers. I have just had a quick trawl through a couple of colour books and there are a lot of engines so adorned from Caley and NB o-6-0s to class 5s. Some of the big pugs around Glasgow mostly, Fairburns and standard 4s, got other bits, hinges, frame edges etc picked out in white or red too.

Anyone fancy building a model with that big scrape along the tank?

Ian.

 

[oldravendale]

Moving on to "Stranraer MPD. July 1957." Midland 2P 4-4-0 40611 which had been there since at lest 1948 and was withdrawn in September 1959. (BR Database). It went to Inverurie Works and was cut up by 23rd May 1961. (RO). 40611 and 40616 were the 2P residents at Stranraer at this time - 40616 was withdrawn a little earlier, in July 1959.



Brian