Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Really helpful stuff there.

As far as the V2 is concerned, thanks John and Martin. I really should know by now that if something looks unlikely that's probably the case! I should have checked more carefully for myself and I thank you both for checking and correcting the published info. The details attached to the photos have been corrected accordingly.

Thanks too, Martin, for the details of the coaching stock. I should have recognised the two coach Maunsell pull-push set - I built one a few years ago!

Dave - thanks to you for the info attached to the E4 photo. Those details are far more than I had any right to expect. You're quite correct about the earlier posting too. These are rescans of originals with which I was not satisfied, so we're catching up with photos out of sequence.

Caledonian 3P Class 72 4-4-0 No 54486 at Perth Shed on 12th September 1961. It was allocated to Perth South - it's final shed - and was withdrawn in March 1962. (SLS). It went to Arnott Young, Troon, where it was scrapped in November 1963. (BR Database).


Standard Class 4 2-6-4T No 80050 on a suburban to Glasgow at Shields Road on 13 September 1961. It was on Corkerhill's allocation at the time from where it was withdrawn in June 1964 although it looks to have been reinstated to Bangor in August and was withdrawn from there November. (SLS). It was scrapped at Central Wagon Co at Wigan in July 1965. (BR Database).


Black 5 44723 on a Paisley line local at Shields Road Low Level on 13th September 1961. It was a Corkerhill engine which then moved to Ardrossan and Dumfries before arriving back at Corkerhill where it was withdrawn in October 1966. (SLS). It ended up at Motherwell Machinery & Scrap, Inslow Works, Wishaw where it was scrapped in January 1967. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[simond]

What is the structure behind number 54486 at Perth?

initially I thought it was a water tower, but it appears to be rather more complicated. It’s not obviously a gantry crane.

thx
Simon

 

[adrian]

What is the structure behind number 54486 at Perth?

initially I thought it was a water tower, but it appears to be rather more complicated. It’s not obviously a gantry crane.

thx
Simon

As a swag - I'd say it's a coaling tower, I suspect the curved rails from either side are some mechanism to lift wagons or hoppers and tip them out into a tender coal space.

 

[daifly]

It’s the opposite of a coaling tower. It’s an ash disposal plant. See here for more: Perth South Shed - RAILSCOT
Dave

 

[simond]

Thanks Dave,

the curious curved things now make perfect sense - they’re the rails for the lifts for the ash trucks to tip into the standard gauge wagon.

cheers
Simon

 

[oldravendale]

Yup. It's an ash disposal plant for sure. There were two at Willesden and many other depots had them I suspect. Here's one of 44760 I took at Willesden on 14th February 1965.



Jubilee 45716 Swiftsure on a Liverpool - Glasgow train at Rutherglen on 13th September 1961. This was probably a Carlisle Kingmoor engine in September although it moved to Upperby in October. It then moved around and ended up at Holbeck in July 1964 where it was withdrawn in September. (SLS). However Rail UK advises it was withdrawn from Wakefield, although the proposed date of withdrawal is the same and it was scrapped at Crewe Works by the end of September 1964. (Rail UK). I can't get in to the "What Happened to Steam" site for another opinion.


Y9 0-4-0ST 68104 at Stewarts & Lloyds Steelworks Yard on 13th September 1961. It was allocated to Kipps and withdrawn in October 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cowlairs Works at the end of September 1963. (Rail UK).



Caledonian 782 Class 0-6-0T No 56278 at Motherwell MPD 0n 13th September 1961. It was allocated to Motherwell and was withdrawn in June 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Arnott Young, Old Kilpatrick, in September 1963. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[adrian]

It’s the opposite of a coaling tower. It’s an ash disposal plant. See here for more: Perth South Shed - RAILSCOT
Dave

Thanks for that - in my defence correct operation, just wrong material!

 

[Martin Shaw]

IMG1374. The Jubilee and its train are passing under Farmeloan Road and over Dalmarnock Junction, the lines going off to the right of the engine are the eastern end of the Glasgow Central Low Level lines. The picture is taken from a pedestrian footbridge that goes over the main lines to the low level platforms, I think it's still there and apart from the OHLE the view is pretty much the same, unlike a lot of Glasgow. 45716 was as suggested a Carlisle Kingmoor engine until 28/10/61 when it went to Upperby, Kingmoor 10/3/62, Agecroft loan 31/7/62, Agecroft 18/8/62, Newton Heath 22/6/63, Leeds 7/64 so could well be Holbeck.
Regards
Martin

 

[Arun Sharma]

Re: 45716, WHTS vol 3 states withdrawal 8/64 and storage in Crewe Works where it lasted a month being scrapped end of Sep 64.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Martin and Arun, for giving me confirmed info about the Jubilee. Much appreciated.

Standard Class 2 2-6-0 78051 at home on shed at Motherwell MPD on 13th September 1961. It moved a couple of times before ending up at Ayr where it was withdrawn at the end of November 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped in March 1967 at Motherwell Machinery and Scrap, Wishaw. (BR Database).


A return to Ireland here, and Class W 2-6-4T No 54 of Ulster Transport Authority on a Larne Harbour to Belfast train at Larne on 14th September 1961. It went to Northern Ireland Railways in 1968 and was withdrawn for scrap in 1970.



Black 5 45027 under repair at Willesden Shed on 1st January 1962. It was resident at Willesden at the time although moved away in June 1962. Thereafter it settled nowhere for long ending up at Stockport Edgeley where it was withdrawn in early May 1968. (SLS). It was scrapped at T W Ward, Beighton, Sheffield by the end of October. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[mickoo]

An unidentified Black 5 under repair at Willesden Shed on 1st January 1962.

View attachment 183692

Brian

45027

 

[oldravendale]

D'oh! Thank you Mick. I just noticed the open smoke box door..... The description has now been updated accordingly.

Brian

 

[Dave Holt]

Interesting to see that 45027, an early example, had been modified to have the later (Ivatt) type of spring hangers and, no doubt, Horwich style horn clips.
Dave.

 

[76043]

And 45027 for a 1930's built loco looking to be in fine condition.
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for your help here, particularly Mick for identifying the loco. Thanks too for your comments, Dave, a detail I wouldn't have registered without your advice. And Tony - the loco certainly looks in good condition but in 1962 there was still a lot of steam on the WCML and it was kept in pretty good nick. By 1965 or 1966 the situation had changed dramatically.

On 24th February 1962 Princess Coronation 46225 Duchess of Gloucester is on shed at Willesden. It was a Carlisle Upperby engine and withdrawn from there in September 1964. (SLS). It then went to Arnott Young at Troon where it was scrapped in December. (BR Database).



Castle 4089 Donnington Castle and Modified Hall 6997 Bryn-Ivor Hall double head a down Wolverhampton train at Old Oak Common on 27th March 1962. The Castle had moved around hugely since it was built in 1925 but at the time was allocated to Old Oak Common. However it was withdrawn from Southall in September 1964 (SLS) or from Reading in the same month. (BR Database). It went to Hayes at Bridgend for disposal which was completed in January 1965. (BR Database). 6997 was a Bristol Bath Road loco at the time, then moving to Barrow Road from where it was withdrawn in November 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at R S Hayes/Birds, Tremains Yard, Bridgend in February 1965. (Rail UK).



Jubilee 45721 Impregnable on an up Carlisle train at Bushey Troughs on 28th March 1962. It was a Crewe North engine ending up at Bank Hall where it was withdrawn in October 1965. (SLS). Disposal took place in March 1966 at Cashmore's, Great Bridge.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Back to Ireland for some of the rescans.

In 1962 an unidentified Class W 2-6-4T on shed at Belfast York Rd MPD.



Again in 1962 Class V1 0-6-0 No 15 stored on shed at Belfast York Rd MPD. This loco appeared in post #1861 dated as 1958 or August 1960 but a later review of Tim's notes confirm the date as 1962. It was built in 1923 by the LMS for the NCC as No 73 and renumbered in the same year. It was suggested that the number is 16 but this was an NCC 0-4-0ST or a GNR(I) Class UG. Class V1 No 15 was, however, scrapped in 1961 so notwithstanding the above comments calls in to question the attributed date of 1962 for this photo.



Finally and still in 1962 W Class 2-6-0 No 98 King Edward VIII awaiting works at Belfast York Road MPD. It was a Northern Counties Committee/LMS loco built in 1937 at Derby Works. It then went to the UTA in 1948 and was withdrawn in 1964. Details confirmed in the Irish Steam Loco Register.



Brian

 

[Roger Pound]

I would confirm the condemning of the V1 0-6-0 no. 15 in 1961. The class consisted of three locos, nos.13 -15 inclusive , originally Class V but reclassified to V1 following rebuilding with G6 boilers in the period 1951-53. No 14 was also condemned in 1961, whilst no 13 survived until August 1964. The picture is very indistinct respecting the number plate, but I would venture that if the date is right it could have been number 13........(?).

Roger

 

[Dog Star]

Black 5 45027 under repair at Willesden Shed on 1st January 1962.

Brian,

This photo gives me some trouble in understanding what is going on with this loco... in that I am looking at what has been removed / dismantled and then thinking about the effort required to achieve what has been done for what end.

Firstly, what is missing from the photo.... the coupling rods. To remove the coupling rods of this loco one needs to remove the return crank, eccentric rod and connecting rod, fair enough those pieces are on the floor. Removing coupling rods requires significant grunt to take off the two rods at one go and if that was done then one might expect the pieces to be lying on the floor close by to the loco.

So were the coupling rods removed for remetalling of a crank pin bush? Or was the engine moved after the rods were removed?

Secondly, why is the crosshead on the floor? From personal experience removal of the cotter which secures the crosshead to the piston rod is a b****y difficult bit of work, just try standing in the pit and then swinging a 7lb sledge upwards to connect with the thin end of the cotter. Over the top of the bogie wheel, under the frame plate, and with the slidebar dust shield in place? Maybe there is a special tool to jump the cotter out? So after removing the cotter, the fitter has had to break the taper between the crosshead and the piston rod... Swindon had a tool for this, a split bush in the gudgeon pin hole with a button on the thin end of the taper and bash a wedge between the two parts of the bush - no such tool? just use the sledge on the collar of the crosshead. And where is that gudgeon pin? Oh yes, resting on the footplate above the slidebars.

Thirdly, there is a light coil spring on the ground, below the slidebars, and something shiny resting on the crosshead - are we looking at parts of the piston rod packing gland?

Fourthly, looks like some of the footplating has been removed in front of the cylinder, the curved drop plating which is (upside down and resting on the buffer beam).

Seems to me that what we have here is an engine upon which a P&V exam has been started although there does not seem to be enough room to withdraw the piston head and piston rod forward and clear of the cylinder. Maybe the work has been stopped for where are the fitter's tools and whatever is used to lift the piston head / rod? Or maybe, as suggested earlier, the engine has been moved part way through the job?

Just what could be learnt about this situation if the relevant engine history card has survived in TNA.

regards, Graham

 

[michael mott]

Graham none of your observations are correct it is a fake pic just a fabulously good diorama model of one of mikoo’s models under construction waiting for a now cross head casting, I am guessing that Brian and mikoo are smiling.
Michael

 

[Dog Star]

Graham none of your observations are correct it is a fake pic

My comments were written after lunch on the infamous spaghetti day...