BrushType4
Western Thunderer
I want want want!!
simond
Western Thunderer
Not sure if it’s manflu or the real thing but I feel
AWFUL today - shivering, sweating, aching, coughing.
But this arrived which cheered me up
I suspect a certain @Pencarrow might take an interest too…
So we have a set of frames spacers & bogie for Tony’s Manor and 2 pairs of 136x frames & spacers for Chris’ pannier and my Saddle Tank
And steel slidebars….
All laser cut - three weeks from CAD to metal, multiple thicknesses & materials and no tooling cost
Everything looks most excellent - more reports to follow!
AWFUL today - shivering, sweating, aching, coughing.
But this arrived which cheered me up
I suspect a certain @Pencarrow might take an interest too…
So we have a set of frames spacers & bogie for Tony’s Manor and 2 pairs of 136x frames & spacers for Chris’ pannier and my Saddle Tank
And steel slidebars….
All laser cut - three weeks from CAD to metal, multiple thicknesses & materials and no tooling cost
Everything looks most excellent - more reports to follow!
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
And all because Barry (@lankytank) likes to be helpful... (see my topic about cutting brass blanks).
simond
Western Thunderer
Precisely, that's where I got the link from!
Post in thread 'SimonD’s workbench'
SimonD’s workbench
which refers, but doesn’t link to
Cutting brass sheet for wagon floors
so thanks to you both!
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Pencarrow
Western Thunderer
Not sure if it’s manflu or the real thing but I feel
AWFUL today - shivering, sweating, aching, coughing.
But this arrived which cheered me up
I suspect a certain @Pencarrow might take an interest too…
View attachment 204478
So we have a set of frames spacers & bogie for Tony’s Manor and 2 pairs of 136x frames & spacers for Chris’ pannier and my Saddle Tank
And steel slidebars….
All laser cut - three weeks from CAD to metal, multiple thicknesses & materials and no tooling cost
Everything looks most excellent - more reports to follow!
Now that little lot looks exciting. Do the frames you've just got replace the Premier Component ones I previously got?
Get well soon Simon, I hope you get over it quickly. Current down in that Landan and surrounded by people coughing and sneezing. Lots of it around at the moment. I've gone back to wearing my COVID mask on public transport, particularly this close to Christmas.
All the best.
simond
Western Thunderer
Hi Chris, like the Italians say “ni”, meaning both ”no”, and “yes”.
the combination of the frames, and frame spacers, and some other bits ofmangled machined brass will indeed replace the Premier frames, and if Billy, and I, were careful enough, will work first time with the Premier rods.
you never know, we might have a pair of sprung chassis this time next week…
mind out in that there Lunnun, it’s strange.
cheers
Simon
the combination of the frames, and frame spacers, and some other bits of
you never know, we might have a pair of sprung chassis this time next week…
mind out in that there Lunnun, it’s strange.
cheers
Simon
simond
Western Thunderer
I’ve finished work for the year, im feeling much better than earlier in the week, and I’ve done the Tesco shop this morning so a little modelling is in order. I might not be at @mickoo ’s level but I think I’m in the invisible solder class…
Ok, you can see it underneath…, but not on the hornways!
The reason you can’t see it on the hornways is that they are just snug - they just fit - they are not soldered yet - it’ll be needed of course, but this laser lark has some benefits!
The next step will be trying the rods. If it rolls, we’re on to something!
Yeah, well, you can’t win ‘em all. It assembled with the etched rods, and it turns but it doesn’t roll.
Unfortunately the little rivets for jointing the Premier rods have gone AWOL, so I’ll have to find some spares, or call Billy, probably both!
Anyway, this might well be seen as a bit of progress
I’ll let it sit there for a while and consider..
Lot to be said for considering
Ok, you can see it underneath…, but not on the hornways!
The reason you can’t see it on the hornways is that they are just snug - they just fit - they are not soldered yet - it’ll be needed of course, but this laser lark has some benefits!
The next step will be trying the rods. If it rolls, we’re on to something!
Yeah, well, you can’t win ‘em all. It assembled with the etched rods, and it turns but it doesn’t roll.
Unfortunately the little rivets for jointing the Premier rods have gone AWOL, so I’ll have to find some spares, or call Billy, probably both!
Anyway, this might well be seen as a bit of progress
I’ll let it sit there for a while and consider..
Lot to be said for considering
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I want to build a kit I cannot buy any more, but a mate will lend me his unbuilt kit to scan. I am thinking out loud, if I drew out the rods and frames for the laser cutter, I could make the superstructure from styrene. Or brass of course. What I want is a program to accept a bitmap image from a scanner and turn it into a dxf or similar vector file. A file which I could tweak and not have to draw from scratch. Just the outline would be wonderful, ignore the half-etched areas and tiny holes. I wonder, does this exist yet or do we still have to wait a few years for such a thing?
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simond
Western Thunderer
Richard,
it’s brave to say this but I don’t believe it can be done - Bitmaps are raster images, DXF‘s are vector.
having said it, somebody will produce a chat-GPT-like program that does it, just to prove me wrong. But even if they do, it’ll have to be somewhat stochastic. When you’re scaling from a drawing, you’re going to use a bit of imagination, and a helping of assumption, and conclude that a) those lines are parallel, and b) they’re an integer number of inches, or a sensible fraction thereof, apart. Draughtsmen (and women) did not use rules graduated in 19th of an inch. And so with an automated drawing-from-picture-maker, it’ll have to decide, on the balance of probabilities whether a given pixel is part of a line or not, and if it is, whence goeth said line. Would it be useful? Yes. Would it be infallible, not a cat’s.
What you could do is borrow the kit, and work up a drawing yourself using one of the freeware 2D CAD programs. If you only want the chassis, that’ll be half a dozen parts, which will be an ideal starting point.
Alternatively, have the etches scanned both sides, and give the scans to a photo etcher. This will introduce some distortion, probably, but should not be a job stopper. There is the copyright question, of course, but if the designer is no longer with us, and/or nobody else has bought the rights, and particularly if you’re not selling copies, it’s an (expensive) option.
or buy the kit off your mate, of course
it’s brave to say this but I don’t believe it can be done - Bitmaps are raster images, DXF‘s are vector.
having said it, somebody will produce a chat-GPT-like program that does it, just to prove me wrong. But even if they do, it’ll have to be somewhat stochastic. When you’re scaling from a drawing, you’re going to use a bit of imagination, and a helping of assumption, and conclude that a) those lines are parallel, and b) they’re an integer number of inches, or a sensible fraction thereof, apart. Draughtsmen (and women) did not use rules graduated in 19th of an inch. And so with an automated drawing-from-picture-maker, it’ll have to decide, on the balance of probabilities whether a given pixel is part of a line or not, and if it is, whence goeth said line. Would it be useful? Yes. Would it be infallible, not a cat’s.
What you could do is borrow the kit, and work up a drawing yourself using one of the freeware 2D CAD programs. If you only want the chassis, that’ll be half a dozen parts, which will be an ideal starting point.
Alternatively, have the etches scanned both sides, and give the scans to a photo etcher. This will introduce some distortion, probably, but should not be a job stopper. There is the copyright question, of course, but if the designer is no longer with us, and/or nobody else has bought the rights, and particularly if you’re not selling copies, it’s an (expensive) option.
or buy the kit off your mate, of course
Pencarrow
Western Thunderer
I’ve finished work for the year, im feeling much better than earlier in the week, and I’ve done the Tesco shop this morning so a little modelling is in order. I might not be at @mickoo ’s level but I think I’m in the invisible solder class…
View attachment 204688
Ok, you can see it underneath…, but not on the hornways!
View attachment 204689
The reason you can’t see it on the hornways is that they are just snug - they just fit - they are not soldered yet - it’ll be needed of course, but this laser lark has some benefits!
The next step will be trying the rods. If it rolls, we’re on to something!
View attachment 204690
Yeah, well, you can’t win ‘em all. It assembled with the etched rods, and it turns but it doesn’t roll.
Unfortunately the little rivets for jointing the Premier rods have gone AWOL, so I’ll have to find some spares, or call Billy, probably both!
Anyway, this might well be seen as a bit of progress
View attachment 204691
View attachment 204692
View attachment 204693
I’ll let it sit there for a while and consider..
Lot to be said for considering
The 3d printed cylinders alone make a massive difference. I suspect being the right size and shape helps on that front. Excellent work Simon.
Ian@StEnochs
Western Thunderer
Or just scratch build! After all a kit is just the same as scratch building except somebody else cuts out the parts for you.Richard,
it’s brave to say this but I don’t believe it can be done - Bitmaps are raster images, DXF‘s are vector.
having said it, somebody will produce a chat-GPT-like program that does it, just to prove me wrong. But even if they do, it’ll have to be somewhat stochastic. When you’re scaling from a drawing, you’re going to use a bit of imagination, and a helping of assumption, and conclude that a) those lines are parallel, and b) they’re an integer number of inches, or a sensible fraction thereof, apart. Draughtsmen (and women) did not use rules graduated in 19th of an inch. And so with an automated drawing-from-picture-maker, it’ll have to decide, on the balance of probabilities whether a given pixel is part of a line or not, and if it is, whence goeth said line. Would it be useful? Yes. Would it be infallible, not a cat’s.
What you could do is borrow the kit, and work up a drawing yourself using one of the freeware 2D CAD programs. If you only want the chassis, that’ll be half a dozen parts, which will be an ideal starting point.
Alternatively, have the etches scanned both sides, and give the scans to a photo etcher. This will introduce some distortion, probably, but should not be a job stopper. There is the copyright question, of course, but if the designer is no longer with us, and/or nobody else has bought the rights, and particularly if you’re not selling copies, it’s an (expensive) option.
or buy the kit off your mate, of course
Ian
simond
Western Thunderer
Indeed, and if you have the skills, and the patience, indeed the patience to acquire the skills, it can be very satisfying. I’ve scratch built a couple of locos, and scratch built a couple more that claimed to be kits, and so I can reasonably claim that I have some skills, but I lack patience, and get frustrated a/o discouraged when I make mistakes. That’s not fun. I’m not here to be the best machinist/fitter/whatever, I’m here to make models that I like. (If others like them too, then even better)
I'm very happy with the CAD, I understand how to make stuff, and design / development mistakes can be dealt with at an early stage, before it costs money! If somebody, or some process, such as laser cutting, CNC machining, or 3DP can turn what’s in my head into a useful 3D object, I’m a very happy puppy.
I'm very happy with the CAD, I understand how to make stuff, and design / development mistakes can be dealt with at an early stage, before it costs money! If somebody, or some process, such as laser cutting, CNC machining, or 3DP can turn what’s in my head into a useful 3D object, I’m a very happy puppy.
Phil O
Western Thunderer
I have imported bmp and jpg, drawings into Inkscape. I draw a rectangle of known prototype dimensions and adjust the import to match the known dimensions, lock that layer and start a new one and trace the outline(s) required, this can be saved as a dxf. There are CAD packages that can do the same, some require some financial input.
Adrian Cherry has done some YouTube videos using Qcad.
Adrian Cherry has done some YouTube videos using Qcad.
simond
Western Thunderer
Sure, that’s entirely possible, I have used TurboCAD to draw over imported drawings for most of my modelling career!
This kind of process is certainly the most effective way to scale (and correct) scanned drawings, but I think Richard’s request was for ”a program” to do it for him, and that requires a whole lot of implicit “knowledge” within the software - for example was the drawing metric or imperial? The pixel concerned might be at 25.3mm from an established line - should it be an inch? Or 25mm, or 25.25, or…?
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
Well....at least it's all been considered
adrian
Flying Squad
It's not that complicated, several programs have a simple bitmap tracing routines, for example Lightburn. Image Tracing - LightBurn Software Documentation
If you watch the video I posted here Brushs Laser Cutting and 3d Printing workbench then at 9:30 he effectively copies a small branch of leaves by taking a photo, uses the tracing facility and cuts out a replica in card. All from within Lightburn. The big problem as you say is the conversion won't be intelligent enough to work out parallel sides or right angles. If the photo or scan is at a slight angle then the vector results will simply replicate that distortion.
IMHO the best solution is to import the image into a drawing package onto a dedicated layer so you can turn it on or off. Then simply pick a critical dimension (longer the better to minimise errors) , for example on the Precursor Tank the main driver wheel base is 10ft. Then decide whether you want to do your drawing in full size or your chosen scale. Then draw a horizontal line, in my case either 10ft or 70mm for Scale7, you can then rotate and resize the drawing/scan so that it matches the length of the drawn line. Then simply trace over the drawing using horizontal and vertical lines as required. I use QCAD and you can easily add known dimensions from the keyboard, so I might use the mouse to click on a starting point. Hit the space bar and in the text edit field a value of 21,0 will draw a horizontal line 21mm long. It will also do equations so you don't need a calculator, e.g if you know the dimension from the drawing is 3' 6" then enter 3' 6" * 7/12 , 0 and it will draw a horizontal line 24.5mm long.
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I have used Visio 2003 to import a picture of a Mk1 coach side (I scanned an etched brass part for a different coach!) and then quietly settled down and drew round it. I made a dxf file and York Modelmaking did the cutting for me in a sheet of white plastic. It didn't quite work out because the window bars were too fragile, but surely it would have been a different story if I had gone for laser cutting in sheet brass.
It sounds as though I have had the right idea. Thinking about it, the process does need some intelligence for example to make sure features line up and, if there are mulitple parts, they match up with each other. Maybe this is the time to try a modern 2-D CAD program . . . perhaps, TurboCad or something else?
It sounds as though I have had the right idea. Thinking about it, the process does need some intelligence for example to make sure features line up and, if there are mulitple parts, they match up with each other. Maybe this is the time to try a modern 2-D CAD program . . . perhaps, TurboCad or something else?
simond
Western Thunderer
I’ve used TurboCAD since buying a copy in PC World in Shirley in about 94, I guess. When I joined my present employer they had a much better version, so I upgraded, when I’d installed Solidworks as the default CAD for the business.
I’m not sure TurboCAD is the best option if you’re beginning CAD, though it does offer 2D & 3D.
there are many discussions in the CAD Corner, worth a bit of research before choosing.
but CAD is most definitely a useful tool in the armoury.
I’m not sure TurboCAD is the best option if you’re beginning CAD, though it does offer 2D & 3D.
there are many discussions in the CAD Corner, worth a bit of research before choosing.
but CAD is most definitely a useful tool in the armoury.
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simond
Western Thunderer
This is very satisfactory!
I found a couple of pivot pins and made up Chris’ coupling rods, and fitted them. I did a little fettling of the Slaters horn guides so everything moved as it should, and fitted the wheels and rods - there’s no suspension yet, but the nice bit is that there’s no adjustment to fit the frames to the rods - I just soldered the hornways into the frames, and bolted it together.
And it just works
There is a little “snicking” so some fettling will be required, but it just runs
This alone convinces me that laser cut frames are worth the cost. No faff, brilliant.
I found a couple of pivot pins and made up Chris’ coupling rods, and fitted them. I did a little fettling of the Slaters horn guides so everything moved as it should, and fitted the wheels and rods - there’s no suspension yet, but the nice bit is that there’s no adjustment to fit the frames to the rods - I just soldered the hornways into the frames, and bolted it together.
And it just works
There is a little “snicking” so some fettling will be required, but it just runs
This alone convinces me that laser cut frames are worth the cost. No faff, brilliant.
Pencarrow
Western Thunderer
This is very satisfactory!
I found a couple of pivot pins and made up Chris’ coupling rods, and fitted them. I did a little fettling of the Slaters horn guides so everything moved as it should, and fitted the wheels and rods - there’s no suspension yet, but the nice bit is that there’s no adjustment to fit the frames to the rods - I just soldered the hornways into the frames, and bolted it together.
And it just works
There is a little “snicking” so some fettling will be required, but it just runs
This alone convinces me that laser cut frames are worth the cost. No faff, brilliant.
That's excellent, almost brings a tear to my eye. The naughty 1366 is slowly being tamed by master craftsman.