Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Have you seen some of the horrors from the broad gauge era?
Ian@StEnochs
Western Thunderer
Attractive in a sort of quirky way!
Phil O
Western Thunderer
simond
Western Thunderer
simond
Western Thunderer
Well, she’s back together, and running.
A little further touching up is required, and I’d like to see it run more than a couple of metres. I think it’s ok, but there seems to be the very occasional “snick” which will either go away or be fixed!
Conclusion - CSB is entirely do-able, I don’t think there’s anything that could not be done with only hand tools, though of course it’s much easier with machine tools. It’s certainly not more difficult than all-axles-compensated.
I guess there are applications that it will be the best possible solution, and maybe some where an alternative is better.
I very much like the fact that the wheels can go up as well as down, this is a major improvement over hard stops on sprung locos, or “one fixed axle” compensation.
I’m certainly ready to have a go at Chris’ pannier, and I think I might tend to CSB as my go-to in future assuming that is successful.
A little further touching up is required, and I’d like to see it run more than a couple of metres. I think it’s ok, but there seems to be the very occasional “snick” which will either go away or be fixed!
Conclusion - CSB is entirely do-able, I don’t think there’s anything that could not be done with only hand tools, though of course it’s much easier with machine tools. It’s certainly not more difficult than all-axles-compensated.
I guess there are applications that it will be the best possible solution, and maybe some where an alternative is better.
I very much like the fact that the wheels can go up as well as down, this is a major improvement over hard stops on sprung locos, or “one fixed axle” compensation.
I’m certainly ready to have a go at Chris’ pannier, and I think I might tend to CSB as my go-to in future assuming that is successful.
paulc
Western Thunderer
These four photos are worth a thousand words about , A , your CSB , B , your pick up system . Many thanks Simon .
Pencarrow
Western Thunderer
Very interesting to see how you've tackled the CSB. As you say, probably doable with hand tools but I think significantly easier and more accurate with access to machine tools. I also wouldn't underplay the importance of having your mechanically minded approach and experience.
Looking forward to seeing you tackle the pesky 1366...
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I have an unbuilt Connoisseur starter loco in my stash to form the basis of my next loco. This kit builds an 0-4-0 with a rigid chassis. Please, does it look as though CSBs would be sensible for an 0-4-0?
Phil O
Western Thunderer
Hi Richard,
0-4-0s can be successfully CSB'd, either one point or three fixed points. Have a look at Will's thread and the various links.
0-4-0s can be successfully CSB'd, either one point or three fixed points. Have a look at Will's thread and the various links.
adrian
Flying Squad
I built my sentinel with 3 fixed point CSB - with this inside the sentinel body it made more sense to have the CSB wire outside the frame but internal spring would work as well. I think it was worth it for the balanced sprung running.
simond
Western Thunderer
Well, I've done no actual modelling today. But lots of digital modelling, which has raised a few issues, I think 1366 panniers are supposed to be challenging.
we have an assembly of frames, wheels, cylinders, motor and footplate.
the main issues are to do with stuff being in the way of the CSB.
Frame spacers - assuming I use the Premier frames that Chris purchased, I either make some new spacers, or get Billy to do so (he's going to offer wider spacers - 25.6mm , at some point). Chances are I will need to make them because the body fixing holes do not align with the chassis. In any case, they will need to accept the CSB wires both front and rear.
Frames. Surprisingly the Premier frames are shorter than they should be, by several mm. Not an issue. I can make a new rear frame spacer to pick up the body mounting screw, but of course, it'll be in the way of the rear coupling spring, because the screw goes into a captive nut in the bunker.
The motion bracket is nothing at all like the drawings of the loco that Chris gave me. I have redesiged it and will make a new one. Probably a fretsaw job. This will provide a fulcrum point between the leading and driving axles. Similarly there will need to be a visual frame spacer between the cylinders, that's an easy win.
Pick-ups. I have put in my own design. The leading and driving axles are fine. The rear axle pickups interfere with the CSB. There is nowhere else to put the pickups if they are an across-the-frames design as the gearbox is in the way. Small wheels... Might need to put back-scratchers on the rear axle
Weight - it's heavy, but the distribution is not ideal. Accordingly I have a 136g bag of lead shot which pretty much fills the bunker. That gets the all up weight to around 850g, and the CoG back to somewhere in the middle. That, in turn, allows the weight distribution on the axles to be about 35% on the front and rear, and 30% on the middle, which will hopefully avoid the thing porpoising.
At this point, I am wondering if it might be worthwhile programming the big mill at work and simply making new frames, but the jury's out on that at the moment. I have a CRT/POWsides 1361 saddle tank to build for myself, and some 1.2mm engraving brass, so maybe two birds with one stone... (or three, if I decide to upgrade my own 1366!)
Can't think of a better way to spend a wet Saturday, but I'd have liked to have solved more problems than I've found!
we have an assembly of frames, wheels, cylinders, motor and footplate.
the main issues are to do with stuff being in the way of the CSB.
Frame spacers - assuming I use the Premier frames that Chris purchased, I either make some new spacers, or get Billy to do so (he's going to offer wider spacers - 25.6mm , at some point). Chances are I will need to make them because the body fixing holes do not align with the chassis. In any case, they will need to accept the CSB wires both front and rear.
Frames. Surprisingly the Premier frames are shorter than they should be, by several mm. Not an issue. I can make a new rear frame spacer to pick up the body mounting screw, but of course, it'll be in the way of the rear coupling spring, because the screw goes into a captive nut in the bunker.
The motion bracket is nothing at all like the drawings of the loco that Chris gave me. I have redesiged it and will make a new one. Probably a fretsaw job. This will provide a fulcrum point between the leading and driving axles. Similarly there will need to be a visual frame spacer between the cylinders, that's an easy win.
Pick-ups. I have put in my own design. The leading and driving axles are fine. The rear axle pickups interfere with the CSB. There is nowhere else to put the pickups if they are an across-the-frames design as the gearbox is in the way. Small wheels... Might need to put back-scratchers on the rear axle
Weight - it's heavy, but the distribution is not ideal. Accordingly I have a 136g bag of lead shot which pretty much fills the bunker. That gets the all up weight to around 850g, and the CoG back to somewhere in the middle. That, in turn, allows the weight distribution on the axles to be about 35% on the front and rear, and 30% on the middle, which will hopefully avoid the thing porpoising.
At this point, I am wondering if it might be worthwhile programming the big mill at work and simply making new frames, but the jury's out on that at the moment. I have a CRT/POWsides 1361 saddle tank to build for myself, and some 1.2mm engraving brass, so maybe two birds with one stone... (or three, if I decide to upgrade my own 1366!)
Can't think of a better way to spend a wet Saturday, but I'd have liked to have solved more problems than I've found!
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
Pick-ups. I have put in my own design. The leading and driving axles are fine. The rear axle pickups interfere with the CSB. There is nowhere else to put the pickups if they are an across-the-frames design as the gearbox is in the way. Small wheels... Might need to put back-scratchers on the rear axle
If I found myself having to make new frame spacers, I would want to have a go with split axles. As long as I could isolate the superstructure.
simond
Western Thunderer
I considered split axles, using the axleboxes I have modified, and plastic horn guides for insulation. The CSB could do double duty as a busbar. I guess the other alternative is split frames and axles, in which case the brass hornguides would be better.
I’ve built a couple using the method outlined by Steph Dale, it works well, but adds some effort to the build.
I’ve built a couple using the method outlined by Steph Dale, it works well, but adds some effort to the build.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I use split axles for every build I make, Richard. Oh - except for the Alan Harris wheels! - on loco and tender. Pick up is wonderful. I can't find the link at the moment but I'll have a word with the lad.
Brian
Brian
simond
Western Thunderer
Brian,
tis here
and it works!
glass fibre rod is available on eBay, the fishing mob use it for floats and stuff.
Don’t use carbon fibre. It’s stiffer, but it’s conductive!
tis here
Split axle pick-up in 0-gauge, Page 3
0 scale models, SR, BR, BR(S), split axle
www.euram-online.co.uk
and it works!
glass fibre rod is available on eBay, the fishing mob use it for floats and stuff.
Don’t use carbon fibre. It’s stiffer, but it’s conductive!
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Split axle current collection highly recommended, much more efficient 
Col.
Col.
simond
Western Thunderer
Just to bring the 45xx saga to a conclusion, CSB works.
There’s no Keep Alive cap in here, the plasticard is 0.81mm thick, and the loco is weighted too far aft so the rear axle is by far the stiffest spring rate (ie the fulcrums are close to the axle) and so it reacts visibly on that axle but the pickup works very well on the axles that are not on the plastic!
The 1366 is going to be fiddly - I’m not sure how keen I could get for split axles, though that works too.
Is the ultimate CSB & Split axle pickup? (Plus sound, ultrasonic smoke and synchronised firebox glow, obviously… )
Anyway
There’s no Keep Alive cap in here, the plasticard is 0.81mm thick, and the loco is weighted too far aft so the rear axle is by far the stiffest spring rate (ie the fulcrums are close to the axle) and so it reacts visibly on that axle but the pickup works very well on the axles that are not on the plastic!
The 1366 is going to be fiddly - I’m not sure how keen I could get for split axles, though that works too.
Is the ultimate CSB & Split axle pickup? (Plus sound, ultrasonic smoke and synchronised firebox glow, obviously…
)Anyway
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