simond
Western Thunderer
I dare you to tap Joe Marler on the arm and tell him...
simond
Western Thunderer
Horns. Objective is to get them fixed to the chassis, in the right place is nice, but at the right spacing, and with the axles perpendicular to the chassis is vital.
First pair fitted, it’s a bit fiddly but does not require five hands. The 13” length of silver steel is ideal to set them square on. I had filed the openings a little too wide so there’s scope for adjustment. If you’re better at filing than me (and your chassis isn’t already assembled) then you might get them to be a tighter fit.
The spring keeps the hornways pressed gently in place, once everything looks right, clip on with forceps, tack solder, check, remove dummy axle and axle boxes and use gas torch to complete the joints.
First pair is critical - could be the middle ones, or either end. It’s set up on a piece of plate glass, I think it was a shelf from a TV cabinet or something - it’s 1/4” thick and dead flat.
Now the fun starts. A set of these is what you need
These dummy axles have a gentle taper at each end 2.2 out to 2.8 diameter - the holes in the coupling rods are 2.5. Length doesn’t matter, though it’ll help if they’re all the same!
One through each pair of axleboxes, fit the rods on the ends, ensure everything looks right, tack solder. Then fit the wheels and see if it runs.
It does - first time
Then finish solder and scrub up.
Or not
Once I got it all together, I noticed that the rear right hornway was not quite upright in the slot I’d cut. This was one of the first two I’d done when I was setting everything square. Hopefully I can fix that without making it run like a lame horse…
Looks better.
There’s another snag. When I built the loco, my first, I used the 12BA screws and nuts supplied with the wheels. The only one I did, as for all subsequent locos, I’ve tapped the wheels and the crank bushes 10BA, and epoxied steel screws into the wheels. Now I’m sure that 12BA is strong enough, but the rigid stamped rods that came with the kit were much thinner than the jointed Premier ones I’ve now got, and so the screws are too damn short.
Looks like I have two choices: they’ll have to come out and be replaced with longer 10BA screws with my usual threaded bushes, or I’ll have to spend stupid money on a 12BA tap in order to turn up some threaded 12 BA bushes as I broke my last one.
I guess a bit of heat would get the screws out of the wheels - but can I do it without wrecking them?
First pair fitted, it’s a bit fiddly but does not require five hands. The 13” length of silver steel is ideal to set them square on. I had filed the openings a little too wide so there’s scope for adjustment. If you’re better at filing than me (and your chassis isn’t already assembled) then you might get them to be a tighter fit.
The spring keeps the hornways pressed gently in place, once everything looks right, clip on with forceps, tack solder, check, remove dummy axle and axle boxes and use gas torch to complete the joints.
First pair is critical - could be the middle ones, or either end. It’s set up on a piece of plate glass, I think it was a shelf from a TV cabinet or something - it’s 1/4” thick and dead flat.
Now the fun starts. A set of these is what you need
These dummy axles have a gentle taper at each end 2.2 out to 2.8 diameter - the holes in the coupling rods are 2.5. Length doesn’t matter, though it’ll help if they’re all the same!
One through each pair of axleboxes, fit the rods on the ends, ensure everything looks right, tack solder. Then fit the wheels and see if it runs.
It does - first time
Then finish solder and scrub up.
Or not
Once I got it all together, I noticed that the rear right hornway was not quite upright in the slot I’d cut. This was one of the first two I’d done when I was setting everything square. Hopefully I can fix that without making it run like a lame horse…
Looks better.
There’s another snag. When I built the loco, my first, I used the 12BA screws and nuts supplied with the wheels. The only one I did, as for all subsequent locos, I’ve tapped the wheels and the crank bushes 10BA, and epoxied steel screws into the wheels. Now I’m sure that 12BA is strong enough, but the rigid stamped rods that came with the kit were much thinner than the jointed Premier ones I’ve now got, and so the screws are too damn short.
Looks like I have two choices: they’ll have to come out and be replaced with longer 10BA screws with my usual threaded bushes, or I’ll have to spend stupid money on a 12BA tap in order to turn up some threaded 12 BA bushes as I broke my last one.
I guess a bit of heat would get the screws out of the wheels - but can I do it without wrecking them?
Last edited:
Purple-haze
Western Thunderer
Simon, not sure how relevant this may be, but slaters instructions suggest that the little lines on the hornblocks should line up with you're perfectly scribed axle centre line. Does using csb negate this?
regards Rog
regards Rog
simond
Western Thunderer
Rog,
you ask the question as if I were some kind of an expert…
there are cast-in lines as you say, and as I replied to Chris re the cast-in pins on the hornways, the axlebox heights* are set by them. I guess if you cut away the pins as I have, it’s helpful to have some kind of datum which the lines provide.
I don’t think you need it with the CSB calculator. Once you’ve filled in the details and adjusted things to your liking (or more likely reached a compromise you feel will work) the spreadsheet tells you what the sag on the springs will be, and then it’s a case of designing the supports so they are at the right height.
(Regarding the height of the horns relative to the frames, the top of the slots is as good a vertical reference as you’ll need, so lining up the cast lines with scribed ones is probably not a priority - then again, not everyone uses CAD.)
Then you assemble it, and sit it on the track, and you discover whether or not your calculations and craftsmanship give you a loco which is sitting level and at the right height or not.
I might get to that point tonight - watch this space!
* it’s not the “height of the axle box” because that’s set by the wheel diameter - it’s the height of the loco!
Cheers
Simon
you ask the question as if I were some kind of an expert…
there are cast-in lines as you say, and as I replied to Chris re the cast-in pins on the hornways, the axlebox heights* are set by them. I guess if you cut away the pins as I have, it’s helpful to have some kind of datum which the lines provide.
I don’t think you need it with the CSB calculator. Once you’ve filled in the details and adjusted things to your liking (or more likely reached a compromise you feel will work) the spreadsheet tells you what the sag on the springs will be, and then it’s a case of designing the supports so they are at the right height.
(Regarding the height of the horns relative to the frames, the top of the slots is as good a vertical reference as you’ll need, so lining up the cast lines with scribed ones is probably not a priority - then again, not everyone uses CAD.)
Then you assemble it, and sit it on the track, and you discover whether or not your calculations and craftsmanship give you a loco which is sitting level and at the right height or not.
I might get to that point tonight - watch this space!
* it’s not the “height of the axle box” because that’s set by the wheel diameter - it’s the height of the loco!
Cheers
Simon
Last edited:
simond
Western Thunderer
Thanks Phil,
I’d also thought of adjustable fulcrum points at the ends of the wire - it would be quite easy to arrange a couple of screws through vertical holes near the bottom of the frames, with the “nut” carrying the wire. Tighten screw, moves fulcrum down, raises that end of the loco, and vice versa.
Hopefully, won’t need it!
I’d also thought of adjustable fulcrum points at the ends of the wire - it would be quite easy to arrange a couple of screws through vertical holes near the bottom of the frames, with the “nut” carrying the wire. Tighten screw, moves fulcrum down, raises that end of the loco, and vice versa.
Hopefully, won’t need it!
Paul Tomlinson
Western Thunderer
Simon, you'll be familiar with the 7mm hornblock from Invertrain (prev. LRM/Fourtrack/Meteor/NMRS...). It's little 4mm brother has an etched CSB conversion pack, which allows adjustment of the ride height. Might be food for thought.
Last edited:
Paul Tomlinson
Western Thunderer
The feature of the LRM beam mounting brackets is the selection of "holes" through which to thread the beam, instead of the fixed "handrail knob" method (High Level put three holes on the tag on the bearing). If (like me) you're inexperienced, it does mean that you can adjust the settings if it doesn't have the intended ride height.
Last edited:
simond
Western Thunderer
Paul, yes, I used Fourtrack horns/axleboxes on most of my builds, I didn’t realise that Chris/Invertrain has them, but I wasn’t aware of the etched adaptor fitting. Simple & effective, as are Adrian’s home made versions, and the multi-hole fulcra (fulcrums?) are a neat idea.
I pondered various solutions for attaching the “hole for the wire” to the axlebox and went with soldered on lugs. That’s my job for this evening, along, hopefully, with making eight bits of brass angle with two holes in. I might get on with it in a few minutes
simond
Western Thunderer
I got on with it but didn’t get far on Wednesday, but it’s sitting on its wheels and suspension for the first time.
I’m not allowing myself a “yee-har” but I am very pleased to see it’s level, and the right height, which was the first consideration.
It’s just not quite running freely yet, that will need a little attention, something is tight somewhere, I suspect the axle centres and rods don’t match well enough despite my dummy axles, but I’m not sure yet.
I’ll fiddle with it, and I’ll fit the cross members for the motor mount and the rest pony truck mount. There may be a bit more soldering to do before scrub and paint, springs and brakes.
Finally cylinders, slidebars, con rods and crossheads…,
I’m not allowing myself a “yee-har” but I am very pleased to see it’s level, and the right height, which was the first consideration.
It’s just not quite running freely yet, that will need a little attention, something is tight somewhere, I suspect the axle centres and rods don’t match well enough despite my dummy axles, but I’m not sure yet.
I’ll fiddle with it, and I’ll fit the cross members for the motor mount and the rest pony truck mount. There may be a bit more soldering to do before scrub and paint, springs and brakes.
Finally cylinders, slidebars, con rods and crossheads…,
simond
Western Thunderer
Thanks Phil,
well on the way, I don’t think it matters what kind of suspension you have, you need to get the motion to work smoothly. It’s an old fashioned chassis, with 1/4” spacers fixed to the frames with csk 8BA screws, and a few other transverse bits. As a result, I needed to turn some 1.1mm spacers to centre the axles (the original rigid arrangement had top-hat bushes with their “brims” outside the frames, with a couple of thin washers) and I might have been a little generous when parting them off.
I’ve fitted the rear pony truck pivot and the motor mount, so it’s a deal more rigid now. It’s currently in the ultrasonic bath, following a good Jiffing!
I’ll have another look, after dinner, before the rugby…
cheers
Simon
well on the way, I don’t think it matters what kind of suspension you have, you need to get the motion to work smoothly. It’s an old fashioned chassis, with 1/4” spacers fixed to the frames with csk 8BA screws, and a few other transverse bits. As a result, I needed to turn some 1.1mm spacers to centre the axles (the original rigid arrangement had top-hat bushes with their “brims” outside the frames, with a couple of thin washers) and I might have been a little generous when parting them off.
I’ve fitted the rear pony truck pivot and the motor mount, so it’s a deal more rigid now. It’s currently in the ultrasonic bath, following a good Jiffing!
I’ll have another look, after dinner, before the rugby…
cheers
Simon
simond
Western Thunderer
Dinner not yet ready. Chassis, on the other hand, is running sweetly. I suspect two factors, the chassis frames were bowed out slightly and were thus pressing the axleboxes against the wheels, and the axleboxes themselves were a little tight on the axles. There doesn’t seem to be an issue with the rods, happily.
I have cleaned the axles thoroughly and run the reamer through the axleboxes whilst moving them up and down in the horns. Still have not oiled it, but it rolls perfectly when pushed or pulled by another loco.
I need to make some proper pony truck pivots, and see about fitting pickups, decoder, motor, model springs, and brakes. Probably Sunday as Uckfield tomorrow.
Very happy with the results so far, looking forward to seeing it run under its own “steam”.
I have cleaned the axles thoroughly and run the reamer through the axleboxes whilst moving them up and down in the horns. Still have not oiled it, but it rolls perfectly when pushed or pulled by another loco.
I need to make some proper pony truck pivots, and see about fitting pickups, decoder, motor, model springs, and brakes. Probably Sunday as Uckfield tomorrow.
Very happy with the results so far, looking forward to seeing it run under its own “steam”.
Pencarrow
Western Thunderer
Very tidy Simon
simond
Western Thunderer
No time to look at it now, but the pony truck wheels are free, but obviously not free enough. I couldn’t understand the odd noise it made as it ran up & down the front of PD, it was only when I videoed it, that the lack of rotation became obvious.
I guess what I need is a 4.8mm or 4.85mm reamer, rather than a 3/16” one, in order to get running clearance. I’m sure a bit of subtle manipulation will do the trick however.
I guess what I need is a 4.8mm or 4.85mm reamer, rather than a 3/16” one, in order to get running clearance. I’m sure a bit of subtle manipulation will do the trick however.