SimonD’s workbench

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Paul Tomlinson

Paul Tomlinson

Western Thunderer
Simon, a few thoughts occur to me. The CSB can be "underslung" if more convenient. When choosing the pickup locations, remember the non-conductive "V" on the back of Slaters' wheels - perhaps have the rearmost pickup forward of the axle, etc?. The rear spacer/pony pivot needn't be a plain rectangle, you can cut a piece with an extended central "semicircle" to allow you to place the pivot in the required position, without interfering with the hornblocks. Cheers.
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
Further progress:

1697290075287.png

1697293054949.png
The chassis has been soaked in paint stripper and is now in the ultrasonic bath. Some bits did not survive, the Slater's pickup frame bushes, unfortunately. I can soon turn some new ones, but the irony was that the floating pickups on this loco were made from, and therefore the right size for, the Slater's bits. I could have made them much smaller. Tant pis, as they say en France. I have relocated the holes as you can see to bring the pickups all down to the lower part of the frames, to leave space for the spring wire.

I've used the CSB calculator from the CLAG website - the only difficulty at present is the CoG is too far aft (roughly the centre pickup), and I might weight the front of the loco to move it forwards a bit. The loco weighs a kilo, more or less.

My plan is to use brass angle soldered to the chassis to carry the wire - the wire itself is 0.48mm piano wire, which I have in stock.

I have allowed for the deflection which is expected to be 0.82mm.

I plan to modify the Slaters hornguides by running a 1.5mm milling cutter through the upper flange

1697293189025.png
and similarly, the axleboxes, by milling a slot

1697293258286.png

and then soldering in a piece of 1mm brass with a hole for the CSB.

1697293315228.png

a plea to @adrian, @Phil O @JimG and anyone else who has built one - have I missed anything or done anything daft, before I cut metal?

I also thought it would be quite easy to make the front and rear CSB mountings on the frames adjustable by means of a screw from below, which would offer the opportunity to trim the height and get the loco level if for any reason, it doesn't come out right. Is this worth doing?

cheers
Simon
 

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simond

simond

Western Thunderer
Paul Tomlinson said:
Simon, a few thoughts occur to me. The CSB can be "underslung" if more convenient. When choosing the pickup locations, remember the non-conductive "V" on the back of Slaters' wheels - perhaps have the rearmost pickup forward of the axle, etc?. The rear spacer/pony pivot needn't be a plain rectangle, you can cut a piece with an extended central "semicircle" to allow you to place the pivot in the required position, without interfering with the hornblocks. Cheers.
Click to expand...
thanks Paul,

I'd considered an underslung CSB, but the cast springs would likely be in the way. I think that moving the pick ups was the right way to go.

The V on the wheels shouldn't be a problem with a sprung six-wheel loco and DCC - at least I hope not, unless they all align at once! And they won't, I just checked, and they appear to be pretty random on the 6 wheels I have - four of them are to one side of the crankpin, one is the other side, and the sixth is ~180 degrees away!


Phil O said:
Simon,

Is there enough meat in the rear frame stretcher to allow cutouts around the horn guides?
Click to expand...


Probably not. The pony pivot is a rectangle with two lugs either end, which engage in matching holes in the frames. I may have to cut the rear one out, as I do not think the frames will come apart, they were soldered and screwed. I will build the Warren Shepherd cast pony trucks to check they are the same length as the Springside ones before committing myself, and then I can make a revised support to suit. It fitted on the real thing, so I'm confident I can make something suitable!

I might get one built before the Rugby starts...

cheers
Simon

PS, I won't get one built, they're rather nice castings and will need a little fettling before assembly - and they appear to be a couple of mm shorter than the Springside ones, which means the front might change too :(
 
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Richard Gawler

Richard Gawler

Western Thunderer
simond said:
The chassis has been soaked in paint stripper and is now in the ultrasonic bath. Some bits did not survive . . .
Click to expand...

I lost a cab step this afternoon while cleaning my latest creation. Found the lost part in the ultrasonic bath - the machine does a good job of finding dry joints.
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
image.jpg

Something of an improvement, I feel.

MrsD is going out cycling this morning, accordingly I may make a noise and some swarf with the little milling machine…

Hornways
image.jpg
Small block of hardwood milled square
Slaters cast brass horns (7960B) clamped on end, after pressing down and against the stop.

These look good, I’ll do six for 1366 at the same time - saves a set up.
 
WM183

WM183

Western Thunderer
Oh those new pony trucks are gorgeous! I'm anxious to see how this turns out. The whole CSB thing seems rather like voodoo.
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
Pencarrow said:
Did I miss the bit where you explained why 6 have pins in the top and 6 don't?
Click to expand...

None of them have now..

It’s how they come, if you use them the way Slaters intend, you put the spring on the pin, there’s a little brass etch spring seat to sit atop the axlebox, the pin forms a dead stop on which the loco rests.

It means the springs only work downwards, which seems to me to be less good than compensation, which at least copes with humps as well as hollows in the track.

I‘d cut the pins off the first six, but hadn’t got to the second batch when I took the photo.
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
bambuko said:
"...These look good, I’ll do six for 1366 at the same time - saves a set up...£
two different locos?
Click to expand...
Yep, I’m doing a chassis for Chris. Adrian suggested CSB, which I have never done before, so rather than experimenting on Chris’ 1366, I stripped my 45xx to use as the Guinea pig. There’s no £ involved, just time.

But gaining some confidence after doing the design and making the first six, I just did both sets at once.

Assuming the next stage goes as I expect (and I have done this bit before) I’ll have a chassis that rolls with the coupling rods on. Then I’ll get the springing to work, I hope. And if that’s ok, I’ll start hacking into the Premier Components chassis that Chris had bought for his loco.

obviously, I hope it all works, but I’ve 4 other locos to build and likely 3 of them might go the same way if I find CSB is as good as it’s reputation.
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
WM183 said:
Oh those new pony trucks are gorgeous! I'm anxious to see how this turns out. The whole CSB thing seems rather like voodoo.
Click to expand...

Thanks Amanda, the pony trucks are lovely, I’d hate to think how much time they save over scratchbuilding two of something that nice. I guess it would call for a bit of etching. They assemble nicely, the only tedious bit is clearing the axle bearings which are marginally too small (but better that than too big, I guess). I had to use the five-sided broach to get the reamer in. I think it’s risky to use power tools as there’s no obvious way of holding them without damaging something.

After a heart-in-mouth rugby game, I shall build the second one!

CSB isn’t magic, it’s just another way of skinning the cat, but it does have some rather handy advantages - not least that you can pre-calculate the suspension sag when loaded. Do have a look at the CLAG website for which Dave posted the link, the Excel sheets do the sums for you!

Continuous springy beams

Application and use of continuous springy beams to model railway locomotives
www.clag.org.uk www.clag.org.uk

cheers
Simon
 
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Phil O

Phil O

Western Thunderer
Definitely a heart stopping last 10 minutes, but it all came good in the end.

Hopefully your CSB experiments will end in a similar result. I was like Amanda, but having started a couple of chassis with CSB, I'm pretty much converted, I have a chassis that works, but I'm somewhat hesitant about fitting the pickups, my nemesis.
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Well, a good win I'll agree and England look better than they have through the whole tournament but they still look scrappy and without a plan. When they're up against France or Sth Africa?? I don't think so.

(Sorry to say).

Brian
 
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