Alan

Western Thunderer
Perhaps unfortunately there are only funny and amused type emojis on the like button. Perhaps a n informative button as on RMWeb might be useful.
Like a few others responding to Chris questions I have made very few scratchbuilt buildings, I've certainly kitbashed quite alot so I do find Chris' posts very informative and interesting, but as I said in my first sentence there is only the like button to press.
 

James Spooner

Western Thunderer
Hi Nigel,

It's actually harder building something a bit bent than something straight and true. The method for the wobbly version is in post numbers 741 and 761. They are linked below:



Shout if it doesn't make sense or you need further explanation. Happy to help.
Hi Chris,

Many thanks and that is a great help in terms of getting the shape of the structure and building the sag into that. I can also see a way of cladding that base structure with (in 4mm scale) something like York Modelmaking self adhesive tiles (or even corrugated plasticard). At the moment I’m still struggling with the pantile bit. It may just be a step too far, I’m not sure.

Nigel
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Hi Chris,

that is true dedication, especially as the end result is so much better than just cutting the window opening out from a full sheet. Cracking stuff.

cheers

Mike

Cheers Mike, the wall the windows are set in is stone but the window surrounds are brick. So I had two options:
# stick the stone cladding on, inc around the window, apply some filler, let it set, scribe brickwork. I decided I probably couldn't get even enough bricks or...
# fire up the Silhouette cutter and cut out the brickwork portions of the surrounds, stick on and make the stone sheet fit around the sheet.

I had a strong coffee and decided neither option was great. At that point I decided I could quickly cut the brick bits I needed out of the brick plasticard and, without much thought, just went for it. Going to be tricky adding the stonework around the brick and I suspect filler will be involved...

Open to suggestions if folk have a better idea.
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Hi Chris,

Many thanks and that is a great help in terms of getting the shape of the structure and building the sag into that. I can also see a way of cladding that base structure with (in 4mm scale) something like York Modelmaking self adhesive tiles (or even corrugated plasticard). At the moment I’m still struggling with the pantile bit. It may just be a step too far, I’m not sure.

Nigel

Yes, that's the problem with sagged roofs, you can't then use thick or rigid sheets to clad the roof as they don't follow the compound curves of the roof. You really need separate tiles.

The York Model Making self adhesive tiles are what I use for slates and they work well on sagged or straight roofs, although it's worth cutting the strips into shorter sections.

I'm not finding anything suitable in 4mm for pan tiles, the Wills sheet is far too thick. I do wonder if Intentio @BrushType4 could laser cut some individual tiles out of corrugated card. Another (tedious) option would be cutting tiles out of corrugated plastic sheet.
 
Last edited:

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
I'll have a look Graham, I didn't knowingly post them as links, so it's a puzzle.

Edit: just had a look myself and there's no missing photos on page 6. Can someone else confirm if they are there or not please?
So when I got to page 6 at lunchtime today the posts for 24th September 2016 had no pictures, rather each image was shown as a file name (sorry, not as an URL) beginning with "tmp".

As of just now, I can see all of the photos which were not visible earlier.
 

James Spooner

Western Thunderer
Yes, that's the problem with sagged roofs, you can't then use thick or rigid sheets to clad the roof as they don't follow the compound curves of the roof. You really need separate tiles.

The York Model Making self adhesive tiles are what I use for slates and they work well on sagged or straight roofs, although it's worth cutting the strips into shorter sections.

I'm not finding anything suitable in 4mm for pan tiles, the Wills sheet is far too thick. I do wonder if Intentio @BrushType4 could laser cut some individual tiles out of corrugated card. Another (tedious) option would be cutting tiles out of corrugated plastic sheet.
Thanks and you have confirmed what I had already suspected. I will try to put a sag into another shed I’m making, using your principles, but with York tiles. I may see if someone like Intentio can do as you suggest on pantiles. Thanks for your advice, it has been really useful!

Nigel
 

Dan Randall

Western Thunderer
Yes, that's the problem with sagged roofs, you can't then use thick or rigid sheets to clad the roof as they don't follow the compound curves of the roof. You really need separate tiles.

The York Model Making self adhesive tiles are what I use for slates and they work well on sagged or straight roofs, although it's worth cutting the strips into shorter sections.

I'm not finding anything suitable in 4mm for pan tiles, the Wills sheet is far too thick. I do wonder if Intentio @BrushType4 could laser cut some individual tiles out of corrugated card. Another (tedious) option would be cutting tiles out of corrugated plastic sheet.

Hi Chris

On the subject of pantiles, whilst searching for something a few days ago, I came across one or two random MRJs, that had been chucked in a cupboard.

I had a flick through them at the time (as you do!) and have just remembered seeing something about a pantile press, in one of them. Sure enough, I wasn’t imagining things - it was an article by Trevor Nunn, about North Norfolk Buildings, in issue 206….
72F87AC1-D005-43EF-99F6-9804A2D96C94.jpeg

5FF33755-658C-4160-BA1B-EE61575C10E4.jpeg

They look pretty convincing to me, so I thought the article might be of use to you, or someone else?


Regards

Dan
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
This post is a masterclass in marking out, surface preparation, painting and a healthy dose of digging and scratching. Who can fail to make a decent rubblestone wall after this lesson?

regards, Graham

Thanks Graham, the grain store building in all its 3d-ness certainly presented some challenges! The blockiness of the buttresses was a key characteristic of that part of the building.

I suppose it could have been achieved with resin castings (would still have had to make masters), or 3d printing (going to be time consuming drawing up the rough stone finish), or with DAS (which I have subsequently used on Polsarrett) but I went for the technically simple (but robust and tedious) solution in the end.

Pleased with the result though.
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Perhaps unfortunately there are only funny and amused type emojis on the like button. Perhaps a n informative button as on RMWeb might be useful.
Like a few others responding to Chris questions I have made very few scratchbuilt buildings, I've certainly kitbashed quite alot so I do find Chris' posts very informative and interesting, but as I said in my first sentence there is only the like button to press.

There's a limited choice of 6 responses, only a couple less than RMweb but I'm often finding that the choice doesn't really fit what I'd like to record.

Like is the default and often doesn't seem enough, in which case I occasionally use the Love Eyes one (generally on @mickoo Bulleid work). The Laughy one is ok for funny stuff.

Personally I find the last 3 less useful and would prefer options to cover: thank you; interesting/informative; and craftsmanship.

rps20230219_080956.jpg
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
And so you should be.

Sometimes, the hard way is the only way to achieve the desired result.

Hi Heather, I was saying only yesterday that shortcuts and quick fixes seldom end up being satisfactory in the long run. I do have to remind myself to 'pull back' sometimes and not over think or over complicate things though...
 

paratom

Western Thunderer
Board Construction
So far I've made 3 of the 4 scenic boards - the original Wenford-based idea was smaller. The boards have been hand bodged by me using birch ply from a timber merchant in Coalville - much better quality than the rubbish sold in the DIY sheds! A few shots of them are included below:

View attachment 52983

View attachment 52984

View attachment 52985

With the changing plans I've now got an extra scenic board to build and something for the fiddle. This will probably wait until later in the spring when the weather is more pleasant...

Edit... The extra board was built - see later in the thread.
What thickness ply and grade of birch ply are you using?
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
I'd put this thread to the back of my mind to catch up on (for my eyes, the images of white plastic construction need a larger screen). The buildings are an impressive scale and - unusually for 0 - depth.

I haven't contemplated buildings of this bulk (even in 4mm) and badly sagging roofs aren't all that common so the thought of replicating the effect isn't something that had occurred to me. I can see how it will work, and it looks reasonably* secure, technically.

Having seen the back of some quite large and durable 0 gauge buildings (Yeovil MRG's Gasworks), I did wonder about the reinforcements - what thickness are you using for the main walls? 60 thou'? I think that's what most of the Gasworks buildings use but the larger ones are about 2mm and they aren't braced nearly that heavily and are about 30 years old now (I think they used Chloroform - Bob Oaksford was a vet so could lay hands on the stuff which had some similar properties to Limonene, but was obviously, a bit... well, the clubrooms were well ventilated).

Adam

* I mean that it really should work, but plastic sheet does what it does, and I can never be sure anything I do will work 100% of the time.

Morning Adam,

You've identified one of my pet layout hates! Boards rammed with railway and only an inch or so at the edge given over to things on the other side of the railway fence. This, as you say, is prevalent in 7mm but understandably so as the real estate needed for a layout is larger. There are exceptions though like Love Lane which IMO strike an excellent balance.

The downside to this approach, if not done carefully, is that you end up with walls and buildings pressed right up against the backscene and this results in very 2d elements: sawn off gable ends, buildings with no roofs, buildings with incredibly steep roofs and improbable placement of trees to hide the lack of depth.

On Pencarrow my aim is to set the trains in a surrounding and the boards being almost 1m deep does help with this. But I've also given over some of the length at the station end to the grain store and an access track. I could have had longer sidings and more track instead. It's a balance thing and I've purposely turned the dial down a bit from trains and towards scenics.

It probably helps that my main interest always has been scenics and buildings and I couldn't imagine being happy with a layout that was all track. Others have no interest beyond the railway fence and want to maximise operation and layout siding capacity. Each to their own.

So yes, it was a very conscious decision to model buildings as more than just scenic flats. At the very least I like to have the roof ridge (where it runs parallel to the layout front) on board and, to give a sense of depth, some of the rear roof too.

Only modelling the front half of a building does give a problem with the gable end being sawn through though. On a previous group layout (Treneglos in 00) we had 500mm deep boards and this resulted in the goods shed (which I built) having a rear corner cut off. For all the 12 years we exhibited that layout, that one feature alone really narked me.

On the current buildings I'm making for Pencarrow I don't have enough depth on the board to model the entire building footprint. The roof ridge line is however well forward of the backscene and the large lean-to roof at the left end will hide the chopped through gable end. I do have an idea for the right end, but that will be far less visible anyway.

With regard to your other questions....

I have tried using 60thou for building carcasses but no longer do as it's a sod to cut (both the main elements and window openings) and, although it's thicker, you don't get a markedly stronger structure. Heavier yes but not massively more rigid. So I now use either 30 or 40thou and gain the rigidity and flatness, like on a steel H column, through adding perpendicular ribs.

I think an analogy would be to look at old churches. The small ones started off with very thick walls but, as size and height increased, they moved away from sheer wall mass and towards bracing through the use of butresses and additional naves etc.

I imagine using Chloroform to join plasticard could be entertaining and somewhat problematic in a club environment! I do use Limonene but only where I either need the extra time (laminations or positioning detail) or I need a less viscous solvent (adding thin plasticard roof tiles). It's fairly useless for the main joints as the initial grab is poor and very slow.

My solvent of choice is the bottles of Butanol from Hobby Holidays. I used to use Slaters Mekpak but they must have changed the formula a few years back. I didn't find the resultant formulation as good and hated the revised smell. Others swear by the Tamiya jars and the squeezy bottle with the long metal tube.

I agree that sagging roofs are generally an exception and, if overdone, can look very wrong. I have, however, been lucky(?) enough to have found a number of prototypes for Pencarrow that did have sagging and irregular roofs. The method I posted above (which is effectively making an upsidedown boat hull) makes this easily achievable. The current buildings have no sag as none is visible in current photos.
 
Last edited:

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Hi Chris

Your posts are anything but long and dull, so please don’t think about scrimping on words or pictures. :)

For whatever reason, your layout thread seemed to be dormant for a while, but now it’s back, I eagerly look forward to any updates, be it buildings, locos, rolling stock or scenics.

As far as conversation goes, I would be very interested to know how you achieved the concrete finish on these lineside huts and ballast bin please….View attachment 180614
The colour of weathered concrete, is a fiendish thing to replicate, but I do like seeing convincing examples and think you’ve nailed it here. :thumbs:


Regards

Dan

Hi Dan,

Fully agree. A realistic concrete finish is IMO very hard to achieve. I think is the complex colours combined with the texture.

I generally start with Halfords grey primer and at some stage in the painting talc is normally sprinkled on to give a fine texture.

The base colour I use is a greeny grey stone colour from a Lifecolour set of 6 paints for stonework. It's then a case of adding shading and speckles of other colours and then thin washes of colour for staining.

Difficult to describe as it's quite iterative. I certainly have difficulty replicating what I've done between sessions and on different buildings. Somewhere in this thread there's a step by step. I'll try and find it for you.

Edit: Not quite what I remembered but there's some photos in the link below and a short description a few posts later.


The Intentio PW hut did however have talc added on top of Johnson's Klear.
 
Last edited:

mickoo

Western Thunderer
There's a limited choice of 6 responses, only a couple less than RMweb but I'm often finding that the choice doesn't really fit what I'd like to record.

Like is the default and often doesn't seem enough, in which case I occasionally use the Love Eyes one (generally on @mickoo Bulleid work). The Laughy one is ok for funny stuff.

Personally I find the last 3 less useful and would prefer options to cover: thank you; interesting/informative; and craftsmanship.

View attachment 180826
I like that idea. moves it away for the social media orientation to the align more with what WT folks actually do.

How hard it is to achieve is another matter, or how well it'd be received is possibly the bigger hurdle.

I don't think I've ever used the last three, the last would have to be used very carefully for fear it might be misunderstood.
 
Top