Prototype Tim Mills' Photos
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
michael mott
Western Thunderer
The shots inside Old Oak bring back so many memories for me, I scuttled around those sheds for a few years in my early teens in the early 60's. thanks for posting these. The Tanner Onner nomenclature, was a common one from the steps of the Twyford Avenue bridge 5 miles west of Paddington, By us lads train spotting.
Michael
.
Michael
.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Larry. Thanks for the comment. Of course, being GWR it's the fact that they all look the same that makes them so different.
Or perhaps it's because they are all different that makes them.........
Dave. I'd not noticed that extra set of rails until you commented and now I'm intrigued. They appear to be level with the running rails and are properly fishplated too.
Dave of the Yorkshire flavour. If intended to replace the existing running rails would they have been fishplated ready? I remember rail replacement programmes of the past and they mainly involved teams of men picking up individual rails with tong type things, dropping in to place and then drilling and fishplating. Would any rail replacement in 1963 not have been long welded anyway? Certainly LT were welding track at this time.
Astropsidings. In absolute ignorance I ask whether such track laying machines were around in 1963, although note that you advise the MHR used a 1964 version so the answer is probably yes. I truly don't remember, but I don't remember them being used when the WCML was upgraded prior to electrification.
Yorkie Bar Dave again. That's a brilliant bit of research with very little to go on, and I'll certainly buy them not being at West Ealing - sometimes Tim's locations are a bit fanciful as we've seen previously. It looked more Iver-ish to me. And, BTW, please never apologise for including such convincing evidence.
Dave H - as promised I'll be back to you about use of that photo of 7903.
Michael. I have similar memories of Old Oak. It was always regarded as an "easy" shed. Well, at least I was never chucked out of it. And the tanner-oners were a favourite for a long time, until I saw the light.
I'll be back shortly with some more photos for today.
Brian
Or perhaps it's because they are all different that makes them.........Dave. I'd not noticed that extra set of rails until you commented and now I'm intrigued. They appear to be level with the running rails and are properly fishplated too.
Dave of the Yorkshire flavour. If intended to replace the existing running rails would they have been fishplated ready? I remember rail replacement programmes of the past and they mainly involved teams of men picking up individual rails with tong type things, dropping in to place and then drilling and fishplating. Would any rail replacement in 1963 not have been long welded anyway? Certainly LT were welding track at this time.
Astropsidings. In absolute ignorance I ask whether such track laying machines were around in 1963, although note that you advise the MHR used a 1964 version so the answer is probably yes. I truly don't remember, but I don't remember them being used when the WCML was upgraded prior to electrification.
Yorkie Bar Dave again. That's a brilliant bit of research with very little to go on, and I'll certainly buy them not being at West Ealing - sometimes Tim's locations are a bit fanciful as we've seen previously. It looked more Iver-ish to me. And, BTW, please never apologise for including such convincing evidence.
Dave H - as promised I'll be back to you about use of that photo of 7903.
Michael. I have similar memories of Old Oak. It was always regarded as an "easy" shed. Well, at least I was never chucked out of it. And the tanner-oners were a favourite for a long time, until I saw the light.
I'll be back shortly with some more photos for today.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Still inside Old Oak Shed in May 1963.
94XX 8487 and condensing 57XX 9707, both carrying 81A, Old Oak Common shed plates. 8487 was at Old Oak from September 1962 and was withdrawn from there in November 1963. Unusually it went to Plaistow Shed for scrapping (perhaps it failed while on a transfer freight or similar) by Mumford Ltd. 9707 went to Southall in November 1963, then to Taunton in August 1964 from where it was withdrawn the following month. By December it was scrapped by Bird's, Risca, Newport.
This is pannier tank 9659, again at Old Oak in May 1963. The smokebox is slightly out of focus but that looks like an 81A shed plate although it could be 81C. By the end of March 1965 it was at Southall withdrawn at the end of June and went to T W Ward, Briton Ferry where it was scrapped by the end of October.
Finally for today Castle 5091 Cleeve Abbey also at Old Oak in May 1963. It was at Cardiff East Dock from September 1962, then to Worcester in April 1964 and finally Tyseley in June 1964 from where it was withdrawn in the following October. It was scrapped a month later at Cashmore's, Great Bridge.
Brian
94XX 8487 and condensing 57XX 9707, both carrying 81A, Old Oak Common shed plates. 8487 was at Old Oak from September 1962 and was withdrawn from there in November 1963. Unusually it went to Plaistow Shed for scrapping (perhaps it failed while on a transfer freight or similar) by Mumford Ltd. 9707 went to Southall in November 1963, then to Taunton in August 1964 from where it was withdrawn the following month. By December it was scrapped by Bird's, Risca, Newport.
This is pannier tank 9659, again at Old Oak in May 1963. The smokebox is slightly out of focus but that looks like an 81A shed plate although it could be 81C. By the end of March 1965 it was at Southall withdrawn at the end of June and went to T W Ward, Briton Ferry where it was scrapped by the end of October.
Finally for today Castle 5091 Cleeve Abbey also at Old Oak in May 1963. It was at Cardiff East Dock from September 1962, then to Worcester in April 1964 and finally Tyseley in June 1964 from where it was withdrawn in the following October. It was scrapped a month later at Cashmore's, Great Bridge.
Brian
Simon
Flying Squad
Wonderful photographs of fantastic machines, thank you for continuing to post them here Brian.
It is still hard to comprehend, and even shocking, that all of this hardware and technology was so quickly disposed of. Even at the late stage that Tim's pictures are showing us it was very much a going concern and the locomotives still manage to look quite magnificent.
As an aside, going through David Hyde's collection of plans and information, it very quickly becomes apparent how important water supply was to the railway. All those water cranes, tanks, troughs, and cleaning out wagons etc.
I guess that even now there must be miles of underground water hardware and pipework hidden beneath tracks, sidings, car parks and all those trackside redevelopments.
Simon
It is still hard to comprehend, and even shocking, that all of this hardware and technology was so quickly disposed of. Even at the late stage that Tim's pictures are showing us it was very much a going concern and the locomotives still manage to look quite magnificent.
As an aside, going through David Hyde's collection of plans and information, it very quickly becomes apparent how important water supply was to the railway. All those water cranes, tanks, troughs, and cleaning out wagons etc.
I guess that even now there must be miles of underground water hardware and pipework hidden beneath tracks, sidings, car parks and all those trackside redevelopments.
Simon
AJC
Western Thunderer
Yes - you can add getting rid of water from civils to that: all those bridges, culverts, runnels, drains, pumps, etc.
Adam
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Circumstantially it would appear that a lot of the necessary infrastructure was lost pretty much as soon as steam finished. I can't speak for other heritage railways but the GCR struggles for adequate water supplies, particularly at galas, despite there having been, historically, three water towers either on or adjacent to the station. I can't suggest whether this is because the water company saw a way of diverting the water historically used by the railway to a growing population or for some other reason.
Adam is absolutely right about the civils too. Keeping the water drainage clear is an ongoing issue for all railways. There have been several bridges which have been replaced, and one in hand at the moment over the A6, due to the effects of water over the last 100+ years.
Brian
Adam is absolutely right about the civils too. Keeping the water drainage clear is an ongoing issue for all railways. There have been several bridges which have been replaced, and one in hand at the moment over the A6, due to the effects of water over the last 100+ years.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
An interesting view of Castle 5091 Cleeve Abbey inside Old Oak Common shed in May 1963 but for reasons which will become apparent in the next photo description probably 30th April. (I wish I could read what's chalked on the tender. Possibly decipherable is the date of 30/3/.) Perhaps of greatest interest here, though, is the sadly slightly out of focus collection of shed accoutrements and the office in the background. Perfect information for a shed interior scene, I reckon. Details for Cleeve Abbey are in post # 1204 above.
Also passing through Old Oak in May 1963 is the obvious figure of Flying Scotsman carrying reporting number X28. Thanks to the wonders of Six Bells Junction we can confirm that the actual date was 30th April 1963 (edit - now corrected to 20th April 1963) and was notable as 4472's first run in preservation. It was hauling the Ffestiniog Railway Society special as far as Ruabon where Manors 7827 and 7819 took over. It returned via Shrewsbury the following day. I'll now hazard a guess that all these photos shown as May 1963 are on the same date.
Now we must suspect this is also 30th April 1963 and is undoubtedly Old Oak Common MPD yard. The leading loco of this group is Modified Hall 6963 Throwley Hall but there are 57XX, 94XX and Halls aplenty together with a yard ash crane and the requisite group of boy train spotters. All in all so atmospheric and redolent of a shed bash in the late 50s and early 60s.
6963 belonged to Old Oak Common at this time, then went in succession to Reading (May 1964), Didcot (January 1965) and Oxford (July 1965) where it was withdrawn a fortnight after arriving. It was dismantled at Birds, Long Marston by the end of October the same year.
Brian
Also passing through Old Oak in May 1963 is the obvious figure of Flying Scotsman carrying reporting number X28. Thanks to the wonders of Six Bells Junction we can confirm that the actual date was 30th April 1963 (edit - now corrected to 20th April 1963) and was notable as 4472's first run in preservation. It was hauling the Ffestiniog Railway Society special as far as Ruabon where Manors 7827 and 7819 took over. It returned via Shrewsbury the following day. I'll now hazard a guess that all these photos shown as May 1963 are on the same date.
Now we must suspect this is also 30th April 1963 and is undoubtedly Old Oak Common MPD yard. The leading loco of this group is Modified Hall 6963 Throwley Hall but there are 57XX, 94XX and Halls aplenty together with a yard ash crane and the requisite group of boy train spotters. All in all so atmospheric and redolent of a shed bash in the late 50s and early 60s.
6963 belonged to Old Oak Common at this time, then went in succession to Reading (May 1964), Didcot (January 1965) and Oxford (July 1965) where it was withdrawn a fortnight after arriving. It was dismantled at Birds, Long Marston by the end of October the same year.
Brian
Last edited:
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Given this class of loco was used mostly on ECS workings out of Paddington my first guess would be a duty number chalked on the door.
Did BR(W)/GW locos carry duty numbers?
Did BR(W)/GW locos carry duty numbers?
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I'm pretty confident that number is chalked on. I'm equally confident that it's an ECS duty number as proposed by Yorkshire Dave.
Here's one with the number in a more "normal" position.
Even express locos carried chalked reporting numbers as various of Tim's photos demonstrate.
Brian
Here's one with the number in a more "normal" position.
Even express locos carried chalked reporting numbers as various of Tim's photos demonstrate.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Still at Old Oak and here's Castle 5070 Sir Daniel Gooch outside the new office building. That looks as though it's an 81A shed plate although the loco looks considerably less clean than others around at the time. Date is May 1963 but I think we can continue safely to modify that to 3oth April. It was stored at Shrewsbury from September 1962 but was reinstated to Old Oak in the middle of November the same year. It was eventually withdrawn in March 1964, went to Birds at Risca and was broken up by the following August.
Looking rather more perky is 5093 Upton Castle also on 30th April 1963. By all appearances I reckon this is the same date as on post # 1179 where further details of the loco reside.
And here are both locos together. Edit - Still at Old Oak on 30th April 1963, the cleaner of the two Castles is 5093, details above. The second is 7021, Haverfordwest Castle. At the time it was a Llanelli loco from where it was withdrawn in September 1963. It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in May 1964.
Brian
Looking rather more perky is 5093 Upton Castle also on 30th April 1963. By all appearances I reckon this is the same date as on post # 1179 where further details of the loco reside.
And here are both locos together. Edit - Still at Old Oak on 30th April 1963, the cleaner of the two Castles is 5093, details above. The second is 7021, Haverfordwest Castle. At the time it was a Llanelli loco from where it was withdrawn in September 1963. It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in May 1964.
Brian
Last edited:
daifly
Western Thunderer
Agreed - It is 7021 Haverfordwest Castle - with double chimney.
Dave
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
That's a good question, Dave. That milepost doesn't look in the right place - it's not alongside a running line. Could it just be dumped there?
As for the Castle - thanks Graham and Dave. I made an assumption following the preceding two photos and it's actually immediately obvious that the second loco is not 5070. It has the wrong shaped chimney to start with. I agree that it's certainly 7021. In mitigation (there really isn't any!) all Tim left as a description was "Old Oak Loco Shed May 1963".
I'll now edit to correct the info.
Brian
As for the Castle - thanks Graham and Dave. I made an assumption following the preceding two photos and it's actually immediately obvious that the second loco is not 5070. It has the wrong shaped chimney to start with. I agree that it's certainly 7021. In mitigation (there really isn't any!) all Tim left as a description was "Old Oak Loco Shed May 1963".
I'll now edit to correct the info.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Three very different photos today.
First inside Old Oak Common Shed a Grange, 6809 Burghclere Grange next to 7018, Drysllwyn Castle in May 1963, or perhaps 30th April. At the time it was a resident of Southall and despite appearances was withdrawn at the beginning of July. It was dispatched at Swindon at the end of the following month. The Drsyllwyn Castle name persists at Didcot but not on 7018.
To fill Mr T's day with joy here is 94XX 0-6-0PT 9479, bent hand rails and all, having brought empty Pullman stock in to Paddington in May 1963. I wonder whether this was the Bristol Pullman which was normally worked by one of the Blue Pullman sets. I remember that there was a spare set of loco hauled coaches maintained at Old Oak in case of Blue Pullman failure or servicing. In any event 9479 is carrying an 81A shed plate where it had been at home since 1958 and from where it was withdrawn in July 1963. It was scrapped at Swindon by the end of September.
7005 Sir Edward Elgar (It was Lamphey Castle until August 1957) leaving Paddington, again in May 1963. It had been a Worcester engine since new in 1946, went to Southall in August 1964 but lasted only a month there. It went to Cohens Morriston where it was scrapped during January 1965.
Brian
First inside Old Oak Common Shed a Grange, 6809 Burghclere Grange next to 7018, Drysllwyn Castle in May 1963, or perhaps 30th April. At the time it was a resident of Southall and despite appearances was withdrawn at the beginning of July. It was dispatched at Swindon at the end of the following month. The Drsyllwyn Castle name persists at Didcot but not on 7018.
To fill Mr T's day with joy here is 94XX 0-6-0PT 9479, bent hand rails and all, having brought empty Pullman stock in to Paddington in May 1963. I wonder whether this was the Bristol Pullman which was normally worked by one of the Blue Pullman sets. I remember that there was a spare set of loco hauled coaches maintained at Old Oak in case of Blue Pullman failure or servicing. In any event 9479 is carrying an 81A shed plate where it had been at home since 1958 and from where it was withdrawn in July 1963. It was scrapped at Swindon by the end of September.
7005 Sir Edward Elgar (It was Lamphey Castle until August 1957) leaving Paddington, again in May 1963. It had been a Worcester engine since new in 1946, went to Southall in August 1964 but lasted only a month there. It went to Cohens Morriston where it was scrapped during January 1965.
Brian
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Here's two of Large Prairie 6122, both at Paddington in May 1963. Although allegedly a Reading, 81D loco at this time that looks to me like a 1C Southall shed plate (It's difficult to be precise due to the grime) which is much more likely if the loco was being used, as it appears, on empty stock. 6122 then went to Swindon in August 1964 and was withdrawn a month later. It was disposed of at Cashmore's Newport during February 1965.
This one is definitely at West Ealing for reasons which will become obvious in the next post! Date is given again as May 1963. 5955 Garth Hall of Oxford Shed passes. It moved to Swindon in June 1964, then Bristol Barrow Road in August from where it was withdrawn at the end of April 1965. It went to Birds, Risca, Newport where it was scrapped by the end of August.
5955 was converted to oil burning in 1947 and renumbered 3955. It appears that 5955 had been reconverted back to coal and renumbered back to the original series at Swindon by 21 Oct 1948.
Brian
This one is definitely at West Ealing for reasons which will become obvious in the next post! Date is given again as May 1963. 5955 Garth Hall of Oxford Shed passes. It moved to Swindon in June 1964, then Bristol Barrow Road in August from where it was withdrawn at the end of April 1965. It went to Birds, Risca, Newport where it was scrapped by the end of August.
5955 was converted to oil burning in 1947 and renumbered 3955. It appears that 5955 had been reconverted back to coal and renumbered back to the original series at Swindon by 21 Oct 1948.
Brian
Attachments
Last edited:
