Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

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daifly

daifly

Western Thunderer
The Hall must be 7910. The plate-frame bogies (the slab-front clearly shown here) started with 6959. Typically, for a Hawksworth loco, it has a Collett tender!
It's an optical illusion (I hope) but the wagons on the right in the second photo do seem to be fouling the path of the DMU.
Dave
 
LarryG

LarryG

Western Thunderer
daifly said:
The Hall must be 7910. The plate-frame bogies (the slab-front clearly shown here) started with 6959. Typically, for a Hawksworth loco, it has a Collett tender!Dave
Click to expand...
How often a video informs viewers "its a "Modified Hall" because its got a Hawksworth Tender!
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Dave - thanks for confirming the Hall. If you look through all these Southall images you'll see that those wagons are not fouling the DMU but are on an adjacent siding.

Mike - Class 121 it is, then!

Continuing with Southall 1964. In fact a later frame yet to be shown will confirm these as early 1964 - probably February.

I was considering remasking this one but there's so much atmosphere or perhaps we should just call it fog and the framing is so good I've left it as Tim shot it. Castle 7010 Avondale Castle making for London. It had been at Old Oak Common for a long while - since November 1952 but went to Reading at the end of January 1964. It was withdrawn in March 1964 which is another factor to confirm the dating as early in the year. It went to Hayes at Bridgend and was scrapped in June.

img828 TM Southall 1964 Remask copyright Final.jpg

Next, on the down line is a County which I read as 1010, County of Caernarvon, passing a DMU moored at Southall Depot. This loco was at Swindon since October 1959 and was withdrawn in July 1964, then went to Cashmore's at Newport and was scrapped in December,

img829 TM Southall 1964 Poss 1010 Remask copyright Final.jpg

This is the same image with some tighter masking.

img829 TM Southall 1964 Poss 1010 Remask copyright Final 2.jpg

Southall certainly liked 4575 No 5545 as it's the third train we've seen this loco working. Details are in post #1001. The 28XX or 2884 2-8-0 is not identified.

img830 TM Southall 1964 Remask copyright Final.jpg

Brian
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Col - you are quite correct. Having looked at the photos again the end of that siding was, indeed, very close to the running line though.

Thanks Adam. My comment was, perhaps, a bit misleading, but that 4575 tank was in posts #1001, 1058 and now 1064, although the one in #1058 was light engine so perhaps doesn't count.:)

Here's a brief intercession before I put up some more photos. I spoke to Tim today - he's quite weak but remains in good form. I'm going up to see him next week. He's just found a box of large format colour slides - judging by some of the black & white stuff we've seen already there'll be some gems in there. He's also dug out a load of 8mm cine film and I'll welcome some advice because, despite a lifetime in motion pictures 8mm rarely if ever came our way. All my personal 8mm film remains in cans so I have no experience of having it transferred to a digital format. So............ does anyone on WT have any experience of the process and how successful was it? Was the quality what was expected? In short would you recommend the company you used?

I believe this will be well worth the effort. Tim's films include things like O2s on the IOW, the Sittingbourne and Kemsley Railway and numerous shots around sheds. He and I wl be doing some screening to establish the quality and content when I see him. How I show it to you kind people will be another challenge!

In the longer run we'd like to lodge these originals with an archive which would find these films of historical value. I know the BFI will take them, but is there a specialist railway archive anywhere? The late John Huntley created a railway archive which still exists but is exclusively, I believe, 16 and 35mm.

I knew I was taking on a lot of material when Tim and I originally discussed the project. I don't think that either he or I realised quite how much is involved but it's a source of huge enjoyment for me.

Brian
 
Heather Kay

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Cine transfer could be fun.

The simplest way is to set up the projector as close to the screen as comfortable to get the brightest image, and point a video camera at it. If there’s sound, linking the output from the projector to the camera input ought to work. We used to own a mirror box that was designed to make the process more manageable. I would suggest any editing should be done after capturing the moving images - so much easier these digital days, with it all on computer.

I don’t know of any companies that specialise. I’m a long time out of that interest bubble. I guess an internet search would be a start, pending recommendations from members here.

As to archiving, I have no idea. Perhaps the NRM might have some pointers.
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thank you for the suggestions, Heather. However 8mm frame rate is 16 fps and UK mains is 50 Hz so banding of the picture is inevitable. Nevertheless it'll be cheap enough to try, won't it?

I'd not thought of the NRM. I'm a bit cautious though - they have a way of divesting themselves of assets as the conservation wind changes.

Much appreciate the thoughts.

Brian
 
JimG

JimG

Western Thunderer
oldravendale said:
He's also dug out a load of 8mm cine film and I'll welcome some advice because, despite a lifetime in motion pictures 8mm rarely if ever came our way. All my personal 8mm film remains in cans so I have no experience of having it transferred to a digital format. So............ does anyone on WT have any experience of the process and how successful was it? Was the quality what was expected? In short would you recommend the company you used?
Click to expand...

I'm now too many years away from telecines and transfer houses to have my old contacts, but I know there were several transfer houses who could deal with 8mm and Super8. I've just done a quick search on the Net and a couple of URLs came up

Transfer your old cine films to DVD, HD, AVI, QuickTime or ProRes 422
8mm and Super 8 Cine Film Transfer

Both list their prices so should give you and Tim an idea of how much things might cost. It might be worth putting a 50ft roll through any you find to see what their quality is like and if you prefer one, then put everything else through them. Drop Kodak and Technicolor into the chat, which might help. :)

Jim.
 
AJC

AJC

Western Thunderer
For film you'd be better off with the BFI or a specialist film archive - many are attached to Record Offices and have the specialist expertise and kit for that job. The NRM has, historically, been given a (literal) shed load/skip load of stuff and has never the storage nor staff to do the job enthusiasts - only part of their constituency - think it *should* as opposed to what it's equipped and funded to do. Almost none of it comes with proper funds to look after it and that is a major concern.

I've been vaguely aware of this for years, and then I met their head of research at an event and gained a much more detailed insight into the problem. I've since met some of their archive staff through work and well, it's a job and a half.

The Kithead Trust might be worth talking to as they're both set up for this sort of thing more generally and are part of a collecting archive: Kithead Trust

Adam
 
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AJC

AJC

Western Thunderer
Heather Kay said:
I wasn’t suggesting the NRM specifically as a likely end point. It was more a suggestion they might know where a donation of that sort might be better served.
Click to expand...

Quite understood, Heather - and sorry if that came across as a bit gatekeeper-ish/grumpy: it’s been a trying day and people’s expectations of the NRM are a pet peeve, especially now I know some of the people involved.

Adam
 
LarryG

LarryG

Western Thunderer
Tony Colbeck at Anbrico kindly put my cine onto video in the 1990s. S-VHS and Hi-8 were just coming in at the time ~ exciting times ha ha. A company put some of my S-VHS onto video, but whereever I had dubbed sound for continuity, it wasnt on the video. I suspect their equipment wasnt true S-VHS but a compromise that could read it but not the mono lenear sound track.

One could project the cine onto a white wall and film it with a DSLR.
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thank you for all your suggestions about film transfer. I like Jim's approach - the one always recommended and regarded as good practice professionally - take a small sample and try the options out! I'd not thought of dropping Kodak and Technicolor in to the conversation either. Otherwise the comments and suggestions are all gratefully received and worthy of consideration.

It's now a week since my last contribution to my thread so I'll put that right now. These three are of the same loco at Southall on a misty day in 1964, probably the same day as the photos in post #1064 above. This is 4575 Class 2-6-2T 5569. It went to Swindon in February 1963 and was put in to store at the end of September the same year. At the end of November it was moved to Southall and was withdrawn from there probably on the last day of 1963 or very early January 1964. It went to Cox and Danks at Park Royal for scrapping which had occurred by the end of April 1964.

A close up of the bunker side shows the inscription "9/15 Prep 1-2-64". Whether this means the loco had to be prepared for service on 1st February by 9.15 or whether it was the ninth of 15 loco to be prepared I'm not qualified to say. However, the date of 1st February seems entirely likely and explains the rather damp and foggy conditions.

img831 TM Southall 1964 Remask copyright Final.jpg img832 TM Southall 1964 Remask copyright Final.jpg img833 TM Southall 1964 Final detail.jpg img833 TM Southall 1964 Remask copyright Final.jpg

Brian
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
A message to my regular likers - Apologies! The lack of any updates recently reflects no lack of continuing enthusiasm on my part, just a refection of other pressures. These include visiting Tim who's passed me more photos - this time large format colour slides and the anticipated movie films. For those who've been waiting for some new photos we'll start again now. I suspect that, through the summer, these postings will be somewhat less than regular but they will continue.

So, on to the next which is an out of sequence photo with all these from Southall. This is described as "Near Brookwood 1964". It's clearly a Merchant Navy but I've been unable to identify it.

img835 TM Near Brookwood 1964 Remask copyright Final.jpg

This one comes from a large format square negative and it's difficult to decide whether it works best vertically or horizontally, so I've done both. It's "Southall November 1964" and features Modified Hall 7919, Runter Hall which appears to be leaving the shed. It was new at Reading at the end of May 1950 and waited until January 1965 before moving to Worcester, ending up at Oxford in November before withdrawal at the end of the year, or mid January 1966 depending on which reference one uses. It ended up at Cashmore's, Newport where it was scrapped in May 1966.

img836 TM Southall Nov 1964 Remask 1 copyright Final.jpg img836 TM Southall Nov 1964 Remask 2 copyright Final.jpg

And here's 7919 again with a short van train. The shed is behind the loco and DMU.

img837 TM Southall Nov 1964 Remask copyright Final.jpg

Finally another at Southall in November 1964. This is a very average photo of 4575 2-6-2T No 5531 details of which are in previous post #995.

img838 TM Southall Nov 1964 Remask copyright Final.jpg

Brian
 
Overseer

Overseer

Western Thunderer
oldravendale said:
This one comes from a large format square negative and it's difficult to decide whether it works best vertically or horizontally, so I've done both. It's "Southall November 1964" and features Modified Hall 7919, Runter Hall which appears to be leaving the shed. It was new at Reading at the end of May 1950 and waited until January 1965 before moving to Worcester, ending up at Oxford in November before withdrawal at the end of the year, or mid January 1966 depending on which reference one uses. It ended up at Cashmore's, Newport where it was scrapped in May 1966.
Click to expand...
It looks like it was composed as a square image so why not leave it square? There is something nice about square images in this increasingly widescreen world.
 
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