Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Ian@StEnochs]

This is "Gateshead MPD. 1st September 1956, J94 Pushing up to Coal Plant." That says it all really, except that the loco buffers are not touching the wagon so it's possibly finished its pushing. Nevertheless, a nice photo of a Loco Coal wagon in the foreground, and part of a wooden bodied wagon too, possibly on its last trip as it was common for wagons going for scrap to make a last trip full of loco coal although there's no "circle and cross" on the section visible to confirm that this is so. 68048 looks exceptionally clean for a Gateshead loco of any sort and further investigation shows that it wasn't a Gateshead engine at all, but belonged to Sunderland. It moved to Tyne Dock in August 1961 and was withdrawn from there in October 1962. I have no information about disposal so perhaps this is another about which Phil can help us out.

View attachment 139487

Brian

Brian,

The buffers aren’t touching and the coupling looks to be in tension and the fireman is looking backwards! Perhaps the wagons are being pulled down from the coaling bench with their brakes pinned on.

Alternatively could this be a prototypical use of the ‘soldered coupling links’ method of preventing buffer lock on tight curves.

Ian

 

[PhilH]

68048 - Bagnall 2782/45, WD 75259. Delivered to the Longmoor Military Railway for storage by 4/8/1945; stored to at least 25/5/1946; seen at Neasden on 30/6/1946; sold to LNER as 8048 6/1946 and allocated to Darlington; Blaydon 6/1949; Sunderland by 12/1951; Tyne Dock 8/1961; stored at Tyne Dock MPD 4/1962 to 1/1963 (officially withdrawn 10/1962); Darlington Works 2-4/1963; scrapped at Darlington Works 5/1963.

Info from "Continent, Coalfield and Conservation, the history of the British Army Austerity 0-6-0ST" published by the Industrial Railway Society.

 

[oldravendale]

Tony, Adam and Dogstar - thanks for building up the info about the one trip only wagons. I don't especially remember that markings although I must have seen it many times.

Larry, thanks for the reminder about "Joem" in preservation.

Ian - I knew there was something not right there for a loco pushing up hill. Nevertheless, I think the picture captures the nature of the work extremely well. I wonder if there were 12" to the ft "soldered coupling links".

Phil - you've come up trumps again with that info. It fills in all the gaps and more. Thank you.

For today we remain in the North East - in fact there will follow a series of photos which fall in to the "much better" category even though I believe shot on the family box camera. We'll continue with "Gateshead MPD. 1st September 1956." It's one of those beautifully proportioned V2s, 60982 which was on York (North) allocation from 1955 until withdrawal on 5th October 1964. It was scrapped a couple of weeks later at Darlington Works.



Just out of interest I made a quick check on how many photos we've reviewed so far, and it's 163. I have actually scanned 2,559 but many fewer than half these have been through Photoshop so far - in fact I'm only just ahead of the images as shown on WT but for reasons explained previously I hope to get all the collection scanned for Tim to see. I still have half a shoebox of 35mm negatives to scan.......

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

This one is at "Sunderland MPD. 1st September 1956". It's G5 0-4-4T 67297 which had been allocated to Sunderland at least since Nationalisation. It was withdrawn in September 1958 although I have no information about disposal.

To my eye the G5s were at least as good looking as the LSWR M7s - not comparable with the O2s, perhaps, which were rather dainty engines.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Another "Sunderland MPD. 1st September 1956." This was a class of really big and impressive 4-6-2 tanks and will doubtless bring joy to Mickoo and 7mm Mick in equal measure. It's well worn Raven A8 69853, at Sunderland since at least 1948 and withdrawn from there in January 1960. At the time of this photo it was weeks away from its final visit to Darlington on 6th November 1956 for a General overhaul lasting 31 days and where it received a boiler change. It ultimately went to Darlington in the middle of February 1960 for cutting up.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Here is "Sunderland MPD. 1st September 1956." 1st September was a Saturday which may account for the number of locos on shed. When enlarged this shot has a tiny bit of camera shake which makes identifying individual locos rather difficult but those I can identify are 68698, a Sunderland J72 from the 1914 batch with another unidentified in frame, 63437 a Q6 which lived at Tyne Dock at the time (although this could be read as or 63427 of Consett), a couple of J94s and I believe a pair of the big North Eastern 0-6-0s - in my ignorance I believe these are J27.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Before we start moving randomly around the North East, and with more Sunderland shots to come this is again "Sunderland MPD. 1st September 1956." The subject is J27 0-6-0 65817, here topping up the tender tank. It was a Sunderland engine at the time of the photo, went to Thornaby in early March 1964 being withdrawn from there on the following 5th October. However it was reprieved and reinstated to Percy Main week ending 10th October before returning to Sunderland at the end of March 1965 and was withdrawn from there at the late date of 1st May 1967 having given remarkable service over 59 years. It was scrapped in the following August, although I know not where.

The image, reasonably sharp in the centre but drifting away towards the edges suggests that this was shot on a box type camera as are all the images exposed in 1956..



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

I spoke to Tim yesterday and he confirms that all these images were taken on the family box camera. For sure they are far from perfect but we'd be so much poorer without them. From here the images in the North East are a bit mixed up, so for this one it's "Tyne Dock MPD. 1st September 1956." It's one of the North East freight stalwarts, Q7 0-8-0 63466. It was a Tyne Dock engine at the time, and had been since 1943 but moved to Sunderland later in the same month (the SLS records the transfer date as mid October) then back to Tyne Dock in mid to late December the same year before withdrawal at the beginning of December 1962 and thence to Darlington for cutting up on 24th April 1963. Having had a boiler change in May 1961 just a couple of months before withdrawal it had been at Darlington to have a complete AWS system fitted!



Brian

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Brian,

great photo again, but your finger has slipped on the keyboard - should be 0-8-0

stay safe and well

regards

Mike

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Mike. I clearly didn't have my brain in gear - I know very well that these are 0-8-0s. Thanks for the prompt. I'll correct the post now.

Best, and good to hear from you.

Brian

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

Great to see a photo taken at Tyne Dock. Cousins of mine lived about 400 yards from the shed, I spent many holidays with them and trainspotting was a big part of it. Copped all 9fs, Q7s and many Q6s with trips to Gateshead and through the tunnel to Percy Main.

Tim

 

[LarryG]

Great to see a photo taken at Tyne Dock. Cousins of mine lived about 400 yards from the shed, I spent many holidays with them and trainspotting was a big part of it. Copped all 9fs, Q7s and many Q6s with trips to Gateshead and through the tunnel to Percy Main.

Tim

Interesting you had cab rides. Did the 0-8-0's knock a lot? They certainly sounded like this did on cine/sound.

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

Interesting you had cab rides. Did the 0-8-0's knock a lot? They certainly sounded like this did on cine/sound.

Sorry Larry, I wrote this poorly. I meant that in addition to Tyne Dock we would visit 52A and 52E. I was only 10/11/12 at the time so didn't really take in the specific sounds.
Tim

 

[oldravendale]

A little more than a year after the above photos this is "Sunderland MPD. 30th November 1957". Another of the good looking G5 0-4-4 tanks, in this case 67259, but this is not push pull fitted which the previous one was. This had been at Sunderland since 1955 and was on the cusp of withdrawal which happened a couple of weeks after Tim's photo, on 17th December. Where it went for dismantling and when that occurred we don't know.



Brian

 

[LarryG]

I particularly like this picture. For one, it shows there were uncared for locos in some links at some sheds even in the 1950's, but the running number was important enough to warrant a continuing wipe over. Whether there was a totem on the tank, we'll never know. This is quite an animated scene with the fireman holding the spring-loaded points over while his driver moved the loco. Box camera or not, there are some pretty good images lurking on those negatives...

 

[daifly]

This had been at Sunderland since 1955 and was on the cusp of withdrawal which happened a couple of weeks after Tim's photo, on 17th December. Where it went for dismantling and when that occurred we don't know.

The answer may be here
Dave

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Dave. That answers one question! It's interesting to me that the withdrawal date on Rail UK is different from that on BRDatabase and the SLS by a couple of weeks. You may have noticed that the SLS data as recorded on BRDatabase is sometimes at variance with its own published dates by a week or two. It's actually pretty immaterial and so far has made no difference to the background info, but has created one or two questions as you'll have seen from my comments on some of these photos and subsequent data from others.

This is "Gateshead MPD. 1st September 1956." It features 62050 and 62061, two York North K1 2-6-0s next to one another. 62061 was at York until the day it died, in 1964 but 62050 did a tour of North East sheds until 1967 when it went for scrap. Unfortunately the curse of the Box Brownie is particularly noticeable on this photo with the left hand side of the image quite unsharp so I'm not guessing at the class of the loco on the extreme left, although clearly of LNER origin. I believe the tender is probably an LNER Streamlined non-corridor but am more than likely incorrect!



Brian

 

[daifly]

I suspect that the variability of dates has much to do with reporting periods for e. g. R.O. or accounting periods for BR. Dave

 

[oldravendale]

I'd not thought of that, Dave. Most of the dates given, when investigated, are "Period week ending xxxxx". There may, however, be more accurate records and the date of withdrawal operationally may be different to the date of withdrawal according to the book keepers. As the dates applied for movements and withdrawal are always within a few weeks of one another I'll continue to quote both.

Anyway, continuing this Gateshead/Sunderland melange this is "Sunderland MPD. 1st September 1956." How an LT&S loco got as far as Sunderland I've no idea - in fact I'll take a punt on this not being Sunderland at all. 41983 was based at Plaistow in 1948 and was still there when withdrawn in February 1959. Contemporary Locoshed Books also confirm Plaistow as its home. It was scrapped a year later at R S Hayes/Birds, Tremains Yard, Bridgend. The date of this photo may be about right. Rail UK (thanks Dave) advises that this was stored at Plaistow shed October 1958 & Winsford Dump March 1959 so as the loco was in steam at the time of the photo it was clearly prior to October 1958. Again no evidence of it ever going anywhere near the North East.

As I get all of Tim's negs scanned (he's just found another shoe box of box camera negs!) it may be possible to put this somewhere in a sequence with other locos at Plaistow. I suspect this neg has been transposed with another from the North East which will be in a sleeve marked as "Plaistow".......



Brian

 

[LarryG]

It's behind an Austerity 2-8-0 if that means anything. My Observers book for 1958 states all still at work on former LT&SR, generally to be found on local freight between Barking and Tilbury. Coincidentally, 41983 is illustrated in the booklet apparently heading an enthusiast railtour and with a Gresley coach leading. Could that be a clue as to why it could be on the north eastern?