Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Osgood]

Certainly right size and plumbing arrangement for a water softener - many industrial locos had same mounted on smokebox or tank.
Can't find any reference to 4F softeners.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

According to the 1:1,250 1:2,500 1949/69 OS maps Cricklewood was a locomotive repair shed (no turntable). There was also a wagon repair shop here as well.

I would assume locos were 'turned' either using the loop at the NW end joining the up and down yards or sent down to Kentish Town.

Explore georeferenced maps - Map images - National Library of Scotland

This loco was a Kentish Town resident at the time, moving to Cricklewood East (we knew the shed as simply "Cricklewood" - I don't know of another shed in the vicinity)

Cricklewood East was a new shed in 1963 on the east of the station (carriage siding side) which mainly serviced DMUs. In 1963 the original Cricklewood became Cricklewood West.

 

[AJC]

Certainly right size and plumbing arrangement for a water softener - many industrial locos had same mounted on smokebox or tank.
Can't find any reference to 4F softeners.

I know what you mean, but all the examples I can think of for BR applied onboard softening (admittedly, all on the Southern) involved briquettes being put in the water tank, i.e., in the tender. This doesn't mean that I have a better suggestion!

Adam

EDIT - could the tank be some sort of AWS fitting?

 

[76043]

I'd be interested to know what the chalk writing is on the steel mineral is saying, not seen that before. It also is a reminder that steel minerals in the 50's were relatively new and in good condition. No need to go crazy on the rust if modelling this period. (Which I am)
Tony

 

[LarryG]

Scribbled chalk message is the 2.15 at Kempton favourite. That wagon looks to be coupled to an elderly LNWR Webb Tender. Not saying the Tender is coupled to a loco though. It's on the ash line so it could be carrying anything.

 

[AJC]

I'd be interested to know what the chalk writing is on the steel mineral is saying, not seen that before. It also is a reminder that steel minerals in the 50's were relatively new and in good condition. No need to go crazy on the rust if modelling this period. (Which I am)
Tony

Since the number is invisible, it's difficult to be too precise about the mineral wagon. That said, it has independent brakes (the giveaway is the position of the v hanger) and, presumably bottom doors which would make it an early example and probably ex-Ministry of War Transport and thus built c.1948. That might account for the filth and possibly the relatively dark hue as those were delivered in bauxite.

Adam

 

[Martin Shaw]

I think Adam has probably hit upon the right direction. There is record of 44531 at Shoeburyness shed and therefore it worked on the LTS. This line was uniquely equipped with Hudd ATC and I believe it became mandatory for locos to be so equipped so I think the fitting in front of the cab is an auxiliary reservoir for that system. I can't find a picture of any other vacuum 4F so fitted which is possibly an additional pointer. I should stress this is total surmise on my part.
Regards
Martin

Addenda: I've had a look at LMS Journal No 12 which has an article on the development of the Hudd ATC. It states that on 1/12/47 the introductory date for the system on the LTS there were 183 locomotives fitted, including "various 3F 0-6-0Ts and 4F 0-6-0s", and certainly at some point 2 cyl 2-6-4Ts at Kentish Town although no direct mention of 4Fs at that depot. The article also states " it was forbidden in LMS and early BR days to run unfitted engines on the line as fogsignalmen had been withdrawn". This somewhat reinforces my point made above and the appearance of 44531 at the far end of the LTS means it was ATC fitted and the the cylinder in front of the cab is the main vacuum storage cylinder (for the ATC). The locos themselves being I think steam braked wouldn't have had a vacuum reservoir for the brakes.

 

[Heather Kay]

Old tenders were often used to collect limescale sludge from washing out operations.

 

[LarryG]

Old tenders were often used to collect limescale sludge from washing out operations.

Spot on.

 

[oldravendale]

According to the 1:1,250 1:2,500 1949/69 OS maps Cricklewood was a locomotive repair shed (no turntable). There was also a wagon repair shop here as well.

I would assume locos were 'turned' either using the loop at the NW end joining the up and down yards or sent down to Kentish Town.

Explore georeferenced maps - Map images - National Library of Scotland



Cricklewood East was a new shed in 1963 on the east of the station (carriage siding side) which mainly serviced DMUs. In 1963 the original Cricklewood became Cricklewood West.

Thanks David. That explains the description of the depot as Cricklewood West - and also why I'd never heard of it being called that. The Cricklewood Depot I knew closed to steam in 1964 and checking the locoshed book for May/June 1964 both Cricklewood East (14A) and Cricklewood West (14B) are listed. By this time Kentish Town (the old 14B) was no longer in use and may have been demolished.

However I have to take issue about the existence or otherwise of a turntable. I have a photo of a "Jubilee" leaving the roundhouse in September 1963. In fact, although memory plays tricks, there may even have been a double roundhouse. It was also a repair depot, as you say, although in terms of capital equipment the most I remember was a pair of shear legs at the back of the depot.

Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I was probably thrown by the OS description of Engine Repair Shed for Cricklewood Shed. The structure looks large enough to have contained two turntables.

 

[Crimson Rambler]

Originally, Cricklewood shed was opened as Child's Hill (1882) with a second roundhouse added in 1893. It become Cricklewood early in the twentieth century - probably when the nearby station was renamed Cricklewood in 1908 in place of Child's Hill & Cricklewood.

It remained Cricklewood until a new diesel depot was built in I think the late fifties/early sixies. That was referred to as Cricklewood West while the former shed had the suffix East added to it.

Appolgies - when I wrote this I overlooked the last page when the above is explained much better!


Crimson Rambler

 

[76043]

I have a vague recollection that various boat trains to Tilbury were sometimes 4F hauled to and from St Pancras, via the T&FGR link.

That would explain the Hudd system.
Tony

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I have a vague recollection that various boat trains to Tilbury were sometimes 4F hauled to and from St Pancras, via the T&FGR link.

There were also trains from St Pancras to Southend. This is one of my grandfathers photos taken at Southend in the early 1920's (post 1922 after the Midland aquisition of the LTSR).

 

[adrian]

A nice period shot with the front coupling bottom loop neatly hooked over the hook.

 

[oldravendale]

What an amazing response to a photo of a simple 0-6-0 loco. Wonderful stuff from many contributors and thanks indeed. It'll be compiled in to the additional info attached to the photo.

For now, though, another "Kentish Town MPD. 8th February 1958." It's Jubilee 45611, Hong Kong, looking in very reasonable fettle. It was a Nottingham engine at this time, moving to Burton in November 1961 and then Derby in January 1963 before being condemned in September 1964 and sent to Cashmore's (Great Bridge) for scrapping which occurred in January 1965. That bottle store is in the background again.



Brian

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Undoubtedly the best looking 4-6-0 from the big four and shown to advantage in this fine picture.

Ian

 

[LarryG]

For wheel aficionados, look at the wheels. All Stanier bevel rim except the leading pair of bogie wheels, which are off an LNWR Claughton. Wheels got swopped around a bit on 5XP locos and so bogies could have Fowler, Stanier or ex.LNWR types and occasionally mixed as shown in Tim Mills picture...

 

[JimG]

What's the lighter grey object behind the front coupling?

Jim.

 

[Crimson Rambler]

To go with the picture of the Midland 3F 0-6-0 proudly carrying its St Pancras headboard, here is a view taken in the late 1890s but before the headcode change of 1903. It shews 1070 Class 2-4-0 No 1081 heading to Southend. It those days, London based Midland engines were cleaned to an extraordinary high standard. In addition this engine is finished in Weatherburn's 'London Style' i.e. extra lining etc - and I think it makes quite a contrast from how steam locomotives later appeared.




The 1070 Class was designed by Kirtley but appeared after Johnson had assumed control - No. 1081 was built in October 1874 and withdrawn as No. 138 in February 1928.


Crimson Rambler