Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Eastsidepilot]

60039 lasted another 2 years when she was condemned only 3 months after receiving a light casual at Doncaster in Dec. '62

Col.

 

[Martin Shaw]

There was a massive purge of steam locos in Dec 62, as far as I can find out it was an accountancy exercise in connection with the formation of the BRB presumably to reduce the value of the capital assets on the books, or the amortisation of the costs of said items could go no further and from an accountancy point of view were worth nothing, and pretty much anything in excess of 30 years old was slated to be withdrawn. It was strongly resisted in many parts of the UK because it would have made the railways generally inoperable but nonetheless a lot was withdrawn. I'll say nothing more for fear of upsetting folk.
Regards
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

I understand that was, indeed the case. In fact, even at the time, in some specific cases the situation to which you refer was reported. It certainly happened to the ex LBSCR "K" class and, I believe to the "Schools". Sorry to say that, at this distance in time, I can't detail the references but December 1962 sounds about right.

It's far too late now, but a better managed modernisation programme, maybe more along the lines of the way Germany made the programme work, would have resulted in a better utilisation of resources. The writing off and scrapping of locos like the 9Fs after 4 or 5 years use was really and truly a disgrace.

Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

Brian
As we both know a politician in the face of ambition will sacrifice common sense and fiscal responsibility in a heart beat.
Martin

 

[Steph Dale]

maybe more along the lines of the way Germany made the programme work...

Not really a fair comparison as that was driven by fuel shortages, both in the West in the sixties/seventies and the East in the eighties/nineties.

Steph

 

[oldravendale]

More at Kings Cross.......

A3 60104, Solario, entering or leaving (judging by the direction of the smoke probably the latter) the servicing area at Kings Cross on 1st November 1957. The presence of the servicing area in easy sight is another reason that Kings Cross was such a joy to visit. It was just clinging on as a Kings Cross engine because on 2nd November it transferred to Doncaster. On 11th July 1959 it moved to Grantham and then back to Kings Cross at the end of November 1959 where it lasted less than a month, being withdrawn on 7th December 1959. (SLS). According to Yeadons it entered Doncaster Works for repair on 19th November 1959 where it was then withdrawn due to a severely cracked and broken frame. It was photographed in the works yard on 6th December 1959 where it was scrapped in December (Yeadons) and the remains were photographed on 16th January 1960. (Unless otherwise stated references are from WHTS).




Brian

 

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Brian,

By remarkable coincidence, Chris is currently painting almost that very scene albeit just over 30 years earlier. The loco in question is A1 Doncaster

 

[Martin Shaw]

Is that a GN non corridor tender, no real reason beyond curiosity? A personal view but weren't the A3s a most elegant looking locomotive before the German style smoke deflectors were added, however necessary and efficacious they may have been.
Regards
Martin

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

A personal view but weren't the A3s a most elegant looking locomotive before the German style smoke deflectors were added, however necessary and efficacious they may have been.

My personal view is the opposite and think the DB Witte smoke deflectors enhanced their appearance.

 

[oldravendale]

I believe, Martin, it's what we refer to as a GN Coalrail tender. But I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to provide chapter and verse.

And you are, of course, quite correct in saying how much better the A3s looked without those smoke deflectors. Just ignore that young whipper-snapper. (Mind you, they still looked pretty good with them).

Brian

 

[Rob Pulham]

I'm with Martin, I much prefer them without the smoke deflectors, but then again I prefer A4's with side skirts too

 

[LarryG]

A3 Solario is backing in to Kings X. (see reverser). I welcomed the German smoke deflectors, which added some balance to the A3's.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

My preference is for the blinkers, what all good racehorses have!
I only saw them in their later years when they took over the Thames Clyde Express from the Royal Scots. Black as the ace of spades but they could shift.

Ian.

 

[oldravendale]

Another for today. This time a loco I never saw, although all my enthusiast friends claimed to have seen it. Certainly it wasn't too unusual at Kings Cross.

The unique rebuilt W1 4-6-4 No 60700 at Kings Cross on 1st November 1957. At the time it was a Doncaster locomotive and had been since October 1953. It had best part of another couple of years to work before being withdrawn in June 1959. It was recorded as being scrapped in Doncaster Works being cut up in August 1959. (all SLS). In the background is the servicing area to which I referred in the post above with an A1 standing ready for its next turn.



Brian

 

[robertm]

Hi Brian, I reckon that’s the A1/1 Great Northern.
Love the W1 but never saw it.
Bob

 

[Martin Shaw]

I'm very much inclined to agree with Bob, the other four engines with space for the company armorial had straight front edges to the smoke deflectors, the pictured one obviously doesn't. The nameplates were fitted in May 1951 as was a lipped chimney which I can't quite distinguish, but it doesn't have the AWS bang plate which it had acquired by 1959, whereas the W1 has the later crest so I would suggest somewhere between 56 and 59. My parents on their travels with me had no reason to use Kings Cross, it was a station for the north which my mother didn't believe in, so I doubt I was there in steam days.
Regards
Martin

 

[mickoo]

A3 Solario is backing in to Kings X. (see reverser). I welcomed the German smoke deflectors, which added some balance to the A3's.

In general yes, technically no, not at this point anyway.

The engine will only back another 10' to the stops, then it will shunt forward into Gas works tunnel before finally reversing onto it's train.

Entry and exit from bottom shed is quite convoluted, engines entered on the line in front of the engine and went up to whats called the wharf (there's a B1 up there waiting to back onto the shed), they then reversed back onto the shed on a line behind the engine, where they were serviced and turned.

They reversed off the shed into the head shunt seen here and followed the path noted above.

The easiest way to determine if an engine is coming on or off Passenger loco shed or sometimes called bottom shed is it's direction, if it's facing the city then it will have arrived from the north and will be going on shed, if it's facing the north then it is leaving the shed ready to shunt back onto it's train.

The W1 is arriving on shed, the A1/1 (the raked back deflectors are unique to that engine) in the background has also arrived on shed and is having the ash dropped, watered and coaled before backing onto the table for turning.

The A3 is trailing a GN coal rail tender which she acquired in Mar 1929 and kept until scrapping, she is also sporting a Thompson 94A boiler (bowler hat dome) which she carried from Oct 41 until Apr 58, a double chimney came in Apr 59.

I cannot recall seeing any images of A4's being serviced on bottom shed, as far as my research goes, they always went to top shed.

 

[oldravendale]

I cannot recall seeing any images of A4's being serviced on bottom shed, as far as my research goes, they always went to top shed.

Now I come to think of it I can't remember any A4s at bottom shed. I've also checked all my photos and of the few that show bottom shed in the background there are no A4s.

I wonder why that should be.

Brian

 

[mickoo]

Now I come to think of it I can't remember any A4s at bottom shed. I've also checked all my photos and of the few that show bottom shed in the background there are no A4s.

I wonder why that should be.

Brian

Brian, I'd have to re-read all my ECML/Kings X books again to be sure but I think it's something to do with turn around times and more local turns, specifically engines that would change at Grantham or Doncaster. A4's tended to be on longer runs to Leeds, York, Newcastle and Scotland; mind Grantham did have several A4's allocated over the years.

There may also be a route restriction, though I find that hard to comprehend as the A4 is almost identical to the A3 below the skirt and the W1 is even more restricted.

Bottom shed entry/exit was eventually realigned, the spur became the main in and out and the line behind was eased, the problem was class 40's and the Peaks, their long rigid bogies created Mary hell on the tight curves and often threw a pony wheel. I believe the realignment was in the early 60's but as yet I can't find an exact date, probably after 1962 when steam was barred on the southern end of the ECML.

I do not have a definitive date when the turn table was removed as I'd like to model bottom shed with Deltics and steam which narrows the dates somewhat, especially as I like Deltics with small yellow panels, these only came on the last few deliveries in 62 and were retrofitted to the rest as and when. I do have one coveted shot off the web of said engine on what appears to be the turntable, but the angle is low and it's 50/50 if it's actually on the table or the new head shunt when the pit was filled in.

 

[oldravendale]

I'm pretty sure Tim has a photo showing a green Deltic in the background of a steam shot at bottom shed - I'll get to it eventually! However, Tim never knowingly took a photo of a diesel so there's little detail to tell whether it has a yellow panel or not.

B