SimonD’s workbench

simond

Western Thunderer
Confused...

the 25” transfers are the right height, but they’re too wide...

image.jpg

that “W” ain’t gonna fit in that gap... indeed, the “G” won’t either.

2D1EA55E-9C51-49C6-9D36-61C8254CC592.jpeg

I’ve been looking for post-1920 photos, which may have had 15” lettering, but I’m struggling. ABT shows lots of 25”, one 1936 shirt button, and a 1938 view with different letter and number sizes. Paul Bartlett’s site shows BR(W) - but usefully confirms some van numbers. I’ve found a couple of pictures online, mostly of preserved stock, with 25”.

But nothing between 1920 and 1934.

the tool van is easy, loads of room. Maybe have different lettering on the two?

or hand lettering...?

Atb
Simon
 
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daifly

Western Thunderer
Whilst I recognise that these are modern repaints, the need for condensed letters in some cases is clear where there is insufficient space for the normal width 25” high letters. They would have been hand painted originally and any respectable signwriter wouldn’t think twice about painting letters sized to fit! It looks as if you may have to do the same. Good luck!
Dave
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Thanks Dave, I fear you are correct.

Circumstances make this more onerous than might otherwise be the case. I painted the vehicle with rattle can Rover Russet Brown, a decent match for the original colour, so I’m told (and one that may no longer be part of Halfords normal catalog, as Rover are no more) and I’ve discovered that it is at least slightly soluble in IPA, when cleaning the borders of the red ends, which were painted in Vallejo acrylic. I’d be very wary of trying to hand letter on a surface that’s not 100% resistant to the solvent for my inevitable mistakes.

it was my intent to put the transfers on, and then airbrush weather over them, probably without varnish. I suspect I need to varnish the body now, before trying to do any signwriting, which, given my inexperience, will be an iterative process to say the least!

I’ve edited my post above to include a snip from your link, the spacings appear a little tighter on the model. It looks like “3 and a bit” planks on the prototype, and “barely 3” on the model.

It’s a bit frustrating to buy a kit, and the apparently correct transfers to go with it, and discover it won’t work at the final stages.

ho hum
Simon
 
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Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Do you have any clear transfer sheet? I think it would be easier to letter off the model and apply the transfer when you’re happy.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Do you have any clear transfer sheet? I think it would be easier to letter off the model and apply the transfer when you’re happy.

thanks Heather, I don’t, but can surely order some. Any recommended sources?

I do like your optimism. “WHEN you’re happy” rather than “IF you’re happy”. Though I note you’ve wisely not put a timetable on this :)

I also very much like the idea of laying the clear sheet over a pre-printed template which I can adjust on the ‘puter to fit the available space. At least I’ll have some lines to work to.

Thanks again, a solution. WT to the rescue once again.
Simon
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Well, there’s the stuff you can get from stationers for your inkjet or laser printer. My experience with that isn’t bad, though it tends to be very thin. I bought a box of 20 A4 sheets for laser printing from that South American online store for £15. I wonder if you could use the white stuff and print direct to it. It would need careful cutting to shape, and sealing with varnish to prevent ink dissolving…

The other stuff is made by decal manufacturers. I did a quick search on the Hannants web site, but obviously my search terms of "clear decal sheet" weren’t comprehensive enough.
 
Dapol 58xx

simond

Western Thunderer
I purchased a Dapol 58xx to use as a test bed for a Deltang r/c which I have also ordered. There’s a snag, I intended to use a 3s (11V approx) battery but there are no 13v receivers available, so it’ll have to wait. I could change the motor, but I’m reluctant to do so.

I stripped it to have a look, having given it a brief run on Porth Dinllaen. It seems to suffer dreadfully from wheelslip going chimney first, though it reverses with rather more confidence.

The front axle is rigidly supported, the centre axle is lightly sprung and the rear axle is somewhat wobbly, presumably rocking equalisation, with some limited sideplay. This, of course, wastes adhesive weight on a non-powered axle, which explains the wheelslip.

The mouldings are crisp, lots of nice little details, it was supplied with 1934 shirtbutton, and a smokebox number plate, neither of which suit me, so the first was polished off with some IPA, and the latter with a scalpel. I’ll put some Great - gap - Western on later tonight, and add a crew. It also has a whistle shield which was a later addition, this looks like a more challenging fix, which may require new whistles fitting. I don’t have any, so will make or obtain before commencing that particular surgery.

It dismantles easily, two screws under each tank, two under the bunker and two in the smokebox. Don’t forget to take out the slide-in PCB for the decoder. That seems to be a neat approach, commendable IMO. Conversely, two screws were missing from the front axle retainer. They’re 10BA, bizarrely. I suppose they could be very loosely tapped M1.5...

The cab roof is magnetically attached, again, neat. I keep saying I’m going to do that on my home-built models, I must buy some magnets.

Electrically, it’s a little curious. There’s a firebox flicker device, two leds, yellow & red. You’ll like it, or not. Can turn off if you fit DCC, or open up, and unplug it if not. The left pickups are red wires, why? Pick-up on all wheels, which is good, but it would surely benefit from KA if DCC, but that might require a bit of fiddly installation given the pull-out decoder PCB, which is ready for a 21-pin decoder to be installed. There is a number of electrical components on this PCB, most of which are not readily identifiable. At least one is a mosfet, and another has 8 legs, but isn’t a spider. If the r/c works it’ll be put in the box, if not, a decoder & speaker will be fitted.

There’s nothing not to like, apart from the poor haulage. It cost £196 including postage, which was considerably less than the Springside kit I built some 20 years back. I think you’d have to really want to build a kit to not purchase some of the modern RTR. Don’t worry, I’ve got lots to build!

image.jpg

Atb
Simon
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Interesting, Simon. Despite being a dyed in the wool kit builder I've bought a few RTRs but they really don't give me quite so much satisfaction if using the theorem "delight over time". As a test bed I'd have thought it perfect - plenty to improve but only if inclined to do so. Fortunately there are sufficient people who like the experience of putting something together and saying "it's mine" to keep the kit manufacturers in business.

(I have a kit for the B4 to build. I'll probably still do so.)

I was talking to Colin at Alan Gibson recently as I wanted to buy some accessories and in my ignorance I thought that 4mm kits are dead. In fact Colin is so busy despite a huge range of 4mm RTR that I'll have to wait for the bits I want. That's great news and suggests that there remain plenty of people who want to build rather than buy.

Brian
 

AJC

Western Thunderer
I was talking to Colin at Alan Gibson recently as I wanted to buy some accessories and in my ignorance I thought that 4mm kits are dead. In fact Colin is so busy despite a huge range of 4mm RTR that I'll have to wait for the bits I want. That's great news and suggests that there remain plenty of people who want to build rather than buy.

Brian

Colin’s experience seems to be a common one - High Level have had to go on pause just last week as there’s been such demand - and such problems with supply - that Chris can’t maintain operations. Brassmasters is the same (but keeping going). Lots of ‘one fine day’ projects emerging from drawers and boxes, I suspect. While RTR does excellent business there remains a market for good kits, especially of the more unusual items. Not a lot of point in starting models of things available from boxes unless you have the parts in hand, or the kit can go a step or two further than the RTR (in 00 at any rate), but the challenge is always going to be there for those that want it.

Adam

EDIT - and us daft souls that work in EM and P4 (two small minorities) don't do anything to skew that picture, though as individuals it might affect our choices.
 
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simond

Western Thunderer
I wouldn’t want to suggest that kit building is dead, clearly that’s not the case in 7mm, and your comments suggest that it’s healthy in 4mm too, and I’ve seen some posts on here regarding 2mm as well, so that’s great.

if you cast your mind back to the days of 3H kits, the thought of the range of Finescale locos that are now available in 7mm RTR would have been laughable. I don’t follow the diesel market, but there are something like 8 or more mainline ones, plus 08, Fowler, Cl14, A3 & A4, moguls, panniers, prairies, terriers, jinties, all available at affordable prices, as well as the more esoteric brass. The world has changed.

I suppose the biggest impact will be on second hand prices of the middle-range kit built models. These, I think, will be depressed by the availability of RTR equivalents. I don’t think a well built Finney, for example, will have any competition from a Heljan A4, not least because the Heljan won’t run reliably after it’s a couple of years old, if the diesels are anything to go by, but also because there’s an obvious difference in quality & finish. But why buy a second hand kit-built pannier when there’s a choice of new Dapol or Minerva, possibly cheaper, and with a guarantee?

My new 58 is, I think, every bit as good in appearance, as my kit-built one, and on a second hand stall in a couple of years, it might even command a higher price, even though it struggles with the rice pudding skin, whereas mine does not!

Let’s hope they’re not being sold off, eh. I want to be running them for a long time!

Cheers
Simon
 
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Overseer

Western Thunderer
Just out of curiosity as I have not actually seen one, have you measured the height of the Dapol model? In some photos the cab eaves look higher than expected compared with the attached carriages. The model carriages may not be right of course.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Hi Fraser,

I hadn’t. It’s about 85mm, maybe 1 or 2 mm less than my Springside one.

image.jpg

Sketch on page 205 of Russell says cab height should be a quarter inch under 12 feet so it’s probably closer than my model.

I really must get on with the shed...

atb
Simon
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Hi Fraser,

I hadn’t. It’s about 85mm, maybe 1 or 2 mm less than my Springside one.

View attachment 139694

Sketch on page 205 of Russell says cab height should be a quarter inch under 12 feet so it’s probably closer than my model.

I really must get on with the shed...

atb
Simon
Thanks Simon, that surprises me. I thought it might be the other way round. It was photos like these which prompted me to look at the cab to carriage roof relationship.
gw Leominster 1939.jpg
gw 5806 Leominster 1939.jpg
 

Boyblunder

Western Thunderer
Thanks guys, ordered some, should have enough to learn on...
Simon, I'm terrible at painting and lettering so for the grandson's birthday present project I tried printing directly onto clear inkjet transfer paper and found it was useless with light lettering on dark coloured backgrounds. As an experiment (retired, lockdown, time to burn etc.) I put a turned down pencil in the Woodpecker 3018 mill and tried that to draw the outline, it worked well. My efforts to paint within the lines were less good however. The next step of using a bow pen with yellow Humbrol needed a lot of experimenting to get the pressure right. It sort of worked and produced the transfers that went on the model. The finish would not be good enough for your model although I think as a method it shows some promise. My next step will be to bodge up a Rotring pen holder for the Woodpecker and try that but I have the eBay G2 to finish first so the woodpecker is put away for now. Sorry, didn't take any photos.
 

paulc

Western Thunderer
Hi Simon , just a tip that I've used for a while . Find an elastic band that will fit over the circumference of your wheel then you can lightly push the brake shoe against it , because the band is rubber (supposedly) it will hold the shoe in place whilst you solder the gear on then slide the band off .
I've done this with most of my locos in the last couple of years and if you can get your hands on a number of the same bands then you can solder all four ,six , eight or ten wheels at the same time and all the shoes will be spaced the same distance from the tyre .
Cheers Paul
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Hi Simon , just a tip that I've used for a while . Find an elastic band that will fit over the circumference of your wheel then you can lightly push the brake shoe against it , because the band is rubber (supposedly) it will hold the shoe in place whilst you solder the gear on then slide the band off .
I've done this with most of my locos in the last couple of years and if you can get your hands on a number of the same bands then you can solder all four ,six , eight or ten wheels at the same time and all the shoes will be spaced the same distance from the tyre .
Cheers Paul

I like that idea, I usually wind equal lengths of masking tape around the tyre to do the same thing but it doesn't help to grip the brake shoe.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
problem with these vans is that they are quite long and hence, wisely, equalised. Unfortunately, the equalisation allows the wheels rather more sideplay than is helpful, so having singed my fingers soldering it all together, I'm going to coat myself and everything else with glue as I try to introduce some epoxy coated fag papers into the gaps. It does seem that one of them shorts on one side, and one on the other, but metal couplings and metal buffers mean an impressive display of sparks if the lights are out. And the DCC doesn't like it!

more soon
Simon
 
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