Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[hrmspaul]

It’s not a ‘van train’. It’s fish, often double-headed.

Martin

But the first vehicle is a SR BY, possibly being used as the brake van / guards van. Certainly adds to the unusual

Paul

SR BY NPCS brake + departmental conversions

The SR BY brake vans were a distinctive design, built only between 1937 and 1941, and 36ft long with a wheelbase of 23ft. They had accomodation for a guard which means they could operate as the necessary guards van in trains otherwise composed of the other SR 4 wheel and bogie vans, or BR CCT...

paulbartlett.zenfolio.com

 

[James Fibbens]

If you are refering to the Black5 & A4 double header, is not the first vehicle an SR bogie van (Van B / GUV) as opposed to a 4-Wheel BY? Looks like it has four pairs of doors + guard's door on the side.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for identifying the location with such accuracy Martin @40057 and Graham @Dog Star . Also for the comments about the train, Martin @40057 again, Paul @hrmspaul and James @James Fibbens . All the info is carefully preserved.

The first two photos here, img731 and img732 confirm that the loco is A4 60034, Lord Farringdon carrying a 61B Aberdeen Ferryhill shed plate. I have no date or confirmation of the location but bearing in mind other photos in the same series it is probably May 1965. The location may be Gleneagles and I think I can see the footbridge which appears in img732 in the background of img729 of Lord Hurcomb. The third photo, img888 is regrettably unsharp and neither date nor location are known although it’s very likely one of the 3 hour Glasgow-Aberdeen trains. The loco went “on loan” to the Scottish Region in October/November 1963 and was almost immediately allocated to St Margarets then to Aberdeen Ferryhill in May/June 1964. (BR Database) It was withdrawn on 24th August 1966 (LCGB) and went to Hughes Bolckow, North Blyth in October 1966 (Yeadons Vol 2) where it was observed being scrapped on 29th January 1967. (RO)

More photos of the loco appear in img334 & 381 628 630 631 and others. The photo of 60034 in post #5,640 I think is at Perth shed and may be associated with these photos.







I believe this photo to be at the same location, Gleneagles, as img732 of 60034 although from the opposite end of he platform. Standard Class 5 73151 carries a 65B, Glasgow St Rollox Balornock shed code, known in BR days as St Rollox. It was allocated there from new on 18th April 1957 where it was withdrawn on 27th August 1966. (SLS). It was scrapped at Motherwell Machinery and Scrap, Wishaw, in October the same year.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Black 5 45433 at an unknown location in the mid 1960s. However the allocation of the loco was at Motherwell from August/September 1957 until withdrawal on 3rd March 1966. (SLS). The shed alone makes me believe this was at the same time as other photos in the series which puts it at May 1965 although that doesn’t help with the location. The loco was seen intact at Cowlairs Works in March 1966. (RO). It was scrapped in April 1966. (BR Database).



Another photo almost certainly in the Scottish series in May 1965. This is A4 60019 Bittern and likely to be on one of the 3 hour Glasgow-Aberdeen trains although I don’t know where. The loco was allocated to Aberdeen Ferryhill in November/December 1963 (SLS) and is carrying an Aberdeen Ferryhill (61B) shed plate. It was withdrawn on 5th September 1966. (SLS). It was sold to Geoffrey Drury on 12th September 1966 for preservation (BR Database) – see 60019 Bittern (LNER 4464, LNER 603, LNER 19 & BR 60019)



Black 5 45043 at an unknown location in the mid 1960s. The allocations through the sixties were an initial move from Mold Junction to Holyhead in June/July 1963, back to Mold Junction in September/October the same year, then returned to Holyhead in April/May 1966 and finally Speke Junction where it was withdrawn in November 1967. (SLS). It was stored at Speke Junction from November 1967 until February 1968 (WHTS) – it was observed there on 10th December and 30th December 1967. (WHTS). It was scrapped at Drapers, Hull (RO) where it was cut up on 27th February 1968. (WHTS). BR Database agrees a scrap date in February 1968.



Brian

 

[hrmspaul]

If you are refering to the Black5 & A4 double header, is not the first vehicle an SR bogie van (Van B / GUV) as opposed to a 4-Wheel BY? Looks like it has four pairs of doors + guard's door on the side.

A B was my first impression and then I decided it looked too short compared with the comparatively short Fish vans, but yes I believe you are correct, it is a B. Even stranger perhaps as not very common and often reserved for specialist trains such as Newspapers.

Paul

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Col

That front offside tyre looks a bit close to limits!

Dave

Slicks !

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for clarifying things, Paul @hrmspaul

I never had slicks on my Consul, Col @Eastsidepilot . I couldn't afford tyres. What a luxury!

J37 64624 is carrying a 62B (Dundee Tay Bridge) shed plate where it was allocated after November 1963 (SLS) so I believe these photos, img737 and img746 were taken in May 1965 and I suspect that the second photo is the loco on shed but I’ve no idea about the location of the first photo. The loco was withdrawn from Dundee Tay Bridge in January 1966 (SLS) and disposal was at Motherwell Machinery and Scrap, Wishaw in April 1966. (BR Database).

Edit: The photo was taken just west of Dundee station. You can see the Queens Hotel name In the background. (Daifly)





The shed plate of 65B, St Rollox, indicates a date as the loco was allocated there from May 1957 when new and left to go to Stirling in November/December 1966 where it was immediately withdrawn. (SLS). That fits neatly with a date of May 1965 for the photo although the location is unknown. The loco was disposed of at Shipbreaking Industries, Faslane inApril 1967. (BR Database).



This is Black 5 45028 at Kinbuck near Dunblane in May 1965 so almost certainly at the same time as img739 of 60007 in post #5985. The loco transferred from Carlisle Upperby to Kingmoor in June/July 1963 and was withdrawn in March 1967. It was stored at Kingmoor from March to October 1967 (WHTS) where it was observed on 2nd September (LCGB). It was scrapped at Campbell’s, Airdrie in January 1968 (RO) although BR Database proposes a scrapping month of November 1967.



Brian

 

[daifly]

Brian

The first photo was taken just west of Dundee station. Here’s a recent view from Streetview from the Tesco car park in a similar position to Tim’s photo. You can see the Queens Hotel name In the background of both.
Dave

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Dave @daifly . It's very helpful to have that confirmation which I've added to the description by way of an edit.

Clan Class 72007 Clan MacKintosh carrying a 12A shed plate but shorn of it's nameplate at an unknown location in the mid 1960s. That 12A plate confused me for a while but it was an identification for Carlisle Kingmoor when part of the LM Region from 1958. Previously it was in the Scottish Region as 68A. The loco was allocated there when new in March 1952 and I suspect that’s where it was photographed. It was withdrawn from Kingmoor in December 1965 (SLS) after which it went to Campbell’s, Airdrie and was scrapped on 24th March 1966. (BR Database).



Black 5 44703 at an unknown location in the mid 1960s but I’ll not be surprised if this is at Carlisle Kingmoor at the same time as the photo in img741 – if that’s where it is! The Black 5 was allocated to Aberdeen Ferryhill from July/August 1955 and moved to Perth South in November/December 1966 where it appears to have been withdrawn immediately – certainly in the first week of December. (SLS). It was stored at Perth from December 1966 to March 1967 (WHTS) and went to McWilliams, Shettleston (RO) where it was scrapped in April 1967. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

A pic of the cover of a book by the Cumbrian Railways Association, for which I hope they will forgive me my trespass, but the coaling plant rather gives the location away in both #img 741/742. I can wholly recommend the book and no doubt others in the series yet to come.


I have on occasion wondered why Kingmoor transferred from the ScR to the LM, it was certainly in better condition than Upperby and the ScR was giving up steam far quicker than the LM could so it gave that region a large shed on the way to scrapyards in central Scotland where withdrawn locos could easily be stored. Pure surmise on my part.
Martin