Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Rob R]

Brian,
I think County of Chester works the same way as County of Warwick et al.
Cheshire means Chesters' County, so to say County of Cheshire is like saying County of Chesters' County which of course makes as much sense as Lake Windermere (Lake Winder Lake?......)
Please keep up the good work.

 

[Roger Pound]

Regettably I never received the Royal Scot which was a Kitmaster kit which is as I remember it.

Brian

You are quite right with your reference to Kitmaster, but the one I have is from the Airfix 00 'Great Model Railway' range of r-t-r locomotives and stock, items from which are still available on the second-hand market. Hope that clarifies the anomaly, !

Roger

 

[40057]

2884 Class 2-8-0 3853 and County 1028 County of Warwick at Old Oak Common Shed Yard in February 1963. 3853 was a long way from home as it's shown as an Aberdare loco from September 1962, moving to Severn Tunnel Junction in September 1963 and withdrawn from there at the end of December the same year. (SLS). It was scrapped by the end of 1964 at Bird's, Risca, Newport. (Rail UK).

The County was a St Philips Marsh engine from September 1960 and moved to Swindon in early November 1963 but was withdrawn by the end of the month. (SLS). This also went to Bird's in Newport and was scrapped by the end of May 1964. (Rail UK).

View attachment 192837

3853 again with 15XX 1500 in Old Oak Shed Yard, February 1963. For details of 1500 see post #2359 above.

View attachment 192839

...and County 1028 again, with 3853 behind. It's still carrying a Bristol Bath Road 82A shed plate despite that shed having closed in 1960. It was clearly actually snowing when Tim took this photo.

View attachment 192838

Another County, 1011 County of Chester (surely County of Cheshire or City of Chester?) in a snow shower at Old Oak Shed Yard in February 1963. This has previously been seen in post #1181. At the time of the photo it was a St Phillips Marsh engine which the shed plate 82B confirms. In November 1963 it moved to Swindon from where it was withdrawn in early November 1964. It was scrapped in March 1965 at Cashmores, Newport. This was the last surviving County at the time of its demise.

View attachment 192840

Grange 6800 Arlington Grange inside Old Oak Common Roundhouse in February 1963. See post #2324 in the preceding page for details.

View attachment 192841

Brian

County of Chester would be correct, I think. County of Cheshire would be tautology as ‘shire’ means county. So the loco could just have been called - equally correctly - ‘Cheshire’, but not ‘County of Cheshire’.

 

[Dave Holt]

Could easily be wrong, but I seem to recall that the Kitmaster re-built Royal Scot was a TT, 3 mm scale model. If it had been 4 mm, I'm sure I would have bought one.
Dave.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Both Counties were only ever allocated to Bristol or Swindon, not that they were around very long.
1011 Bath Road 23/2/46, St Philips Marsh 10/9/60, Swindon 30/11/63, Wdn 11/64.
1028 Bath Road 17/5/47, St Philips Marsh 10/9/60, Swindon 2/11/63, Wdn 2/12/63

I think 10/9/60 was the date Bath Road closed to steam.
Regards
Martin

 

[LarryG]

I wondered when someone would mention the Rebuilt Scot was in TT. I built & painted each new Kitmaster kit for shop display as it arrived at our local model shop in Oldham.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Rob - very succinct! I think I've got it... - and 40057.

Roger, Dave and Larry. You are, of course, absolutely on the ball. Please forgive my confusion with the first posting about the Airfix model. I'm easily confused... And the Kitmaster Royal Scot was indeed TT. I remember those kits - well, the OO ones - with great affection. They were incredibly accurate for the time. Looking at mine even now, once wire hand rails are fitted they stand up to inspection.

Thanks, Martin, for the details and confirmation of the closure date for the shed.

A class 2 2-6-0 46472 probably carrying a 1A Willesden plate at Willesden loco in February 1963. It was shedded at Willesden at the time and moved to Northwich, then to it's final shed Newton Heath in August 1964. It was withdrawn in January 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped at T W Ward, Killamarsh, by the end of April 1965. (Rail UK).


This is Britannia 70025 Western Star at Willesden shed yard in February 1963 carrying a 21D, Aston shedplate where it had lived since the end of September 1961. It moved to Crewe North in June 1963 ending up at Carlisle Kingmoor in October 1966 where it was withdrawn at the end of December 1967. (SLS).



Britannia 70052 Firth of Tay at Willesden Shed yard in February 1963. It was a Corkerhill engine from April 1962 until November when it moved to Crewe North. Then Crewe South, Banbury and Carlisle Kingmoor where it was withdrawn at the beginning of April 1967. (SLS). It went to Campbells Airdrie where it was scrapped in October. (BR Database).



A real Britannia fest! 70031, Byron, in the yard at Willesden Loco in February 1963 carrying a 21D Aston shed plate which it had joined in September 1961. It was allocated to Willesden in May and ended up at Carlisle Kingmoor in December 1966. (SLS). Things then diverge. The SLS advise it as withdrawn from Speke Junction on 11th November 1967 but BR Database and WHTS advise withdrawn from Kingmoor on the same date. It was scrapped at J McWilliams at Shettleston in March 1968.



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

Given that the vast majority of Britannias had as their last allocation Carlisle Kingmoor and more than few were cut up in the environs of Glasgow, a withdrawal from Speke seems unlikely and indeed Irwell's Book of, and the RCTS have 70031 withdrawn from Kingmoor. The only reference I can find to Speke and Britannias is 70024 which was allocated to Kingmoor 31/12/66, wdn 30/12/67, stored Speke 1-3/68, cut up Wards Killamarsh 4/68. Similarly 70023 also allocated to Kingmoor 17/10/66, wdn 30/12/67, stored Newton Heath 1-3/68, cut up Wards Killamarsh 4/68. I suspect the place of storage purely related to who had bought the loco for scrap and was not necessarily related to it's last traffic allocation. Someone in the SLS has got confused I reckon.
Regards
Martin

 

[Dave Holt]

It almost makes you shiver to look at those Feb 63 photos. Brrrrrr! In my opinion, the Britannias looked far better with the high sided tenders.
Dave.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for clarifying the Britannia situation, Martin. I thought Speke Junction looked a bit strange in the context and I agree, confusion over available info is probably to blame.

And I so agree about the conditions when Tim took these photos. He was clearly devoted to his subjects and also a man of considerable dedication I suggest.

This photo brings to mind a sort of watershed moment for me when, after having seen two of the Princesses in store at Willesden I started to see Coronations in the same state. With the influx of the EE Class 4 diesels It was a clear indication that steam was to disappear - and fast.

This is Princess Coronation 46234 Duchess of Abercorn in store at Willesden Loco in February 1963. It was a Camden engine in July 1959, moving to Carlisle Upperby in November the same year. It was already withdrawn when photographed at Willesden which had occurred at the end of January 1963, notionally from Carlisle (SLS) but it had possibly failed at Willesden and been condemned while there. It went to Crewe Works for destruction which was completed by the end of June 1963. (Rail UK). WHTS confirms it as seen in store at Willesden on 17th February and 10th March 1963, then at Crewe South, nominally awaiting works, on 21st April.


Modified Hall 7926 Willey Hall in Old Oak Common Yard in late 1962 or early 1963. It was a Worcester engine from October 1962, thence to Reading in May 1964 Final allocation was Gloucester Horton Road by way of Swindon. It was withdrawn in early January 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped in June 1965 at Buttigiegs, Newport. (Rail UK).


Grange 4-6-0 6813 Eastbury Grange in Old Oak Common Yard late in 1962 or early 1963. This is carrying it's 86A shed plate, Ebbw Junction, Newport, and it moved to its final shed, Worcester, at the end of June 1964 where it was withdrawn in September 1965. (SLS). It then went to Birds at Long Marston where it was cut up by the end of the year.



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

The picture of the Duchess is odd because by rights it shouldn't be there. It was definitely an Upperby engine from 1/1/59 and was withdrawn from there on the 26/1/63 however it had been in store from 1/12/62 until withdrawal. Without knowing the exact date of Tim's pic it may have only just been withdrawn, there is an awful lot of coal in the tender and the sacking over the chimney rather gives the game away about storage. I wonder whether it was in fact stored serviceable at Willesden on1/12/62, and thereafter when withdrawal occurred it was a paper exercise to remove it from Upperby's allocation. I can only presume that it was thought that since Willesden was marginally nearer Crewe than Carlisle storage their was preferable and would prevent the ScR swapping out one of theirs. A bit of surmise on my part but plausible.
Regards
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for your thoughts about Duchess of Abercorn. Martin. I guess your interpretation is as good as mine. I guess that, at this distance in time, we'll never know the precise logistics although I have to say I can't see the sacking over the chimney!

2884 2-8-0 No 3836 in Old Oak Yard late in 1962 or early 1963. It would have been a Shrewsbury engine at the time, moving to Neath and finally Bristol Barrow Road in December 1964 where it was withdrawn in November 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped in January 1966 at Cashmore's, Newport. (BR Database).





57XX Pannier tank 9659 in Old Oak Yard in late 1962 or early 1963. This has been in these pages a few times previously. It was probably a Slough engine at the time, but by April 1965 it was at Southall and withdrawn at the end of June. (SLS). It went to T W Ward, Briton Ferry where it was scrapped by the end of October. (Rail UK).



Condensing 57XX pannier tank 9706 taking water in Old Oak Yard late in 1962 or early 1963. This was previously in post #1239. It had been an Old Oak engine for ever and was withdrawn from there in November 1964. (BR Database). It went to RS Hayes/Birds, Tremains Yard, Bridgend where it was scrapped by the end of February 1965. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Four unidentified Pannier Tanks inside Old Oak Roundhouse at the end of 1962 or early 1963.



Seen previously in post #1141 is County 1006 County of Cornwall inside Old Oak Roundhouse at the end of 1962 or early 1963. 1006 was shedded at 82C Swindon from mid December 1962 and previously at Laira. It was withdrawn in September 1963. (SLS). It went to Coopers Metals, California Sidings, Sharpness where it was scrapped at the end of June 1964. (Rail UK).



A rare visitor to Old Oak Common is Manor 7808 Cookham Manor seen here in Old Oak Roundhouse at the end of 1962 or early 1963. It was at Tyseley in 1961 and moved to Reading in October 1962, then Swindon in August 1964 and finally Gloucester Horton Road in November. It was withdrawn in January 1966. It avoided the scrapyard and went directly in to preservation - see Preserved British Steam Locomotives. Although these photos look identical they are two different frames, so I suspect the photos were taken by Tim "to be sure, to be sure"...





Castle 7026 Tenby Castle in Old Oak Shed Yard at the end of 1962 or early 1963. This had been at Stafford Road since 1949 but moved to Gloucester Horton Road in October 1962. It then spent periods back at Stafford Road, then St Blazey before ending up at Tyseley in July 1964 where it was withdrawn in October. (SLS). It was scrapped in April 1965 at Cashmore's, Great Bridge.



Brian

 

[Osgood]

......Although these photos look identical ...

Apart from the man against the wall - he looks almost ghost-like in the photo!

 

[oldravendale]

Oh yes - that's the ghost of Old Oak. How appropriate!

 

[oldravendale]

On reviewing that last photo before "putting it to bed" I noted this wagon in the background. An accidental capture by Tim but nonetheless quite an interesting one I suggest. I believe it to be a tanker, maybe for lubricating oil. It seems to have some age to it and one can clearly see the "G" and "W" on the side - and this was as late as 1962 or 3. It may, of course, be an internal use only wagon which would not venture on to the main line.

Initially I thought it was possibly a gas tank - they were still in use for the kitchen cars if memory serves me right - but I don't think so having studied the enlargement.

Any suggestions will be of great value.

Brian

 

[John Palmer]

It's a GWR Diagram DD3 tank wagon. 41 built by 1911 for conveyance of various liquids, including gas oil, lubricating oil and water - more details at p.123 in Vol.2 of 'History of Great Western Goods Wagons'. 43950, pictured below, survived long enough to be captured by me in a rather poorly panned shot at Edithmead, Somerset, at some date after 1966, when I began to take wagon pictures with a Kodak Instamatic.
A clearer picture can be found in 'Great Western Wagons Appendix' at p.74, appropriately liveried for conveyance of inflammable liquid.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you John. I was pretty certain I could rely on WT to come up with the goods!

These locos have all been seen previously on the pages of WT.

Castle 7029 Clun Castle heads up a line of locos on the disposal road in Old Oak Yard at the end of 1962 or early 1963. Clun Castle's history is well known as it's now in preservation but the potted version is this: In 1962 it moved from Newton Abbot to Old Oak Common and in October 1964 to Gloucester Horton Road. It was withdrawn at the very end of 1965 from whence it went straight in to preservation. I have a photo of it in decent condition at Southall in May 1965 with no shed plate. On June 11th it became the last steam loco out of Paddington (in regular service) so may have been at Southall in preparation.



47XX 2-8-0 4701 in Old Oak Roundhouse at the end of 1962 or early 1963. It had been on Old Oak Common's allocation from November 1962 following a brief sojourn at Southall and was withdrawn in September 1963. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's, Newport for scrap which was completed in August 1965. (BR Database).



61XX 2-6-2T 6142 inside Old Oak Roundhouse and carefully positioned just not quite under the exhaust duct at the end of 1962 or early 1963. When the last photo of this loco was shown Dave (daifly) supplied the following info: The Prairie Papers #2 by Ian Sixsmith pub Irwell Press shows 6142 as an OOC loco from 4Feb39 to 24Aug64 when it moved to Southall. It was scrapped by Hayes/Birds at Tremains Yard, Bridgend by 31Dec64. Scrapping info from RailUK website.



Brian

 

[hrmspaul]

Some of the GWR OIl tanks lasted a great deal longer than the 1960s, although the G W isn't obvious. Four Examples, some modelling inspiration

1987 GWR and BR(W) tank wagons on British Railways | ADW43989 GWR tank @ Reading DMU 87-04-20 � Paul Bartlett [0w] or GWR and BR(W) tank wagons on British Railways | DW80990__m_

1990 GWR and BR(W) tank wagons on British Railways | CDW43914 = 024329 GWR Diag DD3 tank @ Crewe Works 90-07-21 � Paul Bartlett [2w] or GWR and BR(W) tank wagons on British Railways | CDW43930 = 024330 GWR Diag DD3 tank @ Crewe Works 90-07-21 � Paul Bartlett [1w]

Paul

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Paul, for the additional info. Those tankers certainly lasted, didn't they?

We've had visitors over the weekend, so no postings from me. However rather a bumper bundle today, mostly because the locos in a number of these frames are not identified so the possibility of any research is limited.

The first is Hawksworth 15XX 0-6-0PT 1501 inside Old Oak shed at the end of 1962 or early 1963 alongside Hymek D7063. The SLS advise this as a long term resident of Southall, in fact since 1950 being withdrawn from there at the end of January 1961. It's the only preserved example which reached the SVR by way of the NCB. See 1501



The front of an unidentified 9F in Old Oak Common Shed in late 1962 or early 1963.



An unidentified Grange, same time, same place.



Now outside Old Oak on the same date with an unidentified Hall.



7003 Elmley Castle at Old Oak on a down express with a couple of parcels coaches on the front at the end of 1962 or early 1963. It was a Gloucester Horton Road engine at the time, moving to St Philips Marsh in April 1964 and back to Gloucester in June where it was withdrawn in August. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's, Newport, by the end of the year.



An unidentified Hall tender first on a down mineral train at Old Oak at the end of 1962 or early 1963.



An unidentified 43XX 2-6-0 on an up mineral train at Old Oak at the end of 1962 or early 1963.



The above unidentified 43XX 2-6-0 crosses 61XX 2-6-2T 6163 light engine at Old Oak at the end of 1962 or early 1963. 6163 has been seen once or twice previously, most recently in post #2207 and was at home at Old Oak, moving locally to Southall in October 1964 where it was withdrawn in October 1965. (SLS). It went to Birds in Newport where it was scrapped by the end of February 1966. (Rail UK).