Mickoo's American Modelling Empire

Rob R

Western Thunderer
If you can't be convertedto 3 ft try here instead:-
SP 70 tonners

The book might be available to fellow members of the WT Cajon Pass sub committee.............
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
If you can't be convertedto 3 ft try here instead:-
SP 70 tonners

The book might be available to fellow members of the WT Cajon Pass sub committee.............
Rob, I did look at the 70 tonners and there are quite a few changes, the most obvious being the slatted radiator intake grill at the front and jacked up cab, it'd take too much work to hack such a nice model.

MD
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Mick, it would make a great load for an SP std gauge flatcar

I just hope nobody does a Transnet Class 91 (2ft gauge GE UM6B). RTR at my age - yes that parts man does them.
View attachment 159189
It would, except this one is standard gauge, to do that I'd have to find the narrow gauge trucks or hack these, I thin they're similar just narrower.

Do I really want to go down that road and devalue it, I'd rather not as it's a complete boxed and mint condition gift.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Blimey some people land on their feet, don't they??!! :D


No, the only other, other alternative is to gift it on, to someone who likes Critters and runs a freelance Short Line layout.... :)
It doesn't happen often, less than the four fingers on one hand, this being the third, it restores my faith that there are still decent folk out there who value honest hard work.

I'm now conjuring a small gated plant/industry where it can reside and bimble out to swap the odd car or two on the main transfer line. I've not run it yet but I've an inkling the drive is going to be ultra smooth and quiet.

I'll be disappointed if it isn't as overall it has the polished manufactured feel to it, from bespoke box padded with foam in all the right places right through to the final model.
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
Interesting. I imported a handful of Rich Yoder's nice little diesels, but I stuck to standard gauge offerings and didn't look at prototypically 'incorrect' offerings, like std gauge offered with On30 trucks.

To my shame I produced a prototype etched brass/whitemetal details Whitcomb 25-ton 4-wheel std ga diesel, but it only got as far as a sample of the body with a hood error. Anybody interested in a challenge? Got the phototools still and a supply of w/m castings (and masters). Free of course .., well, swap for one of the next bodyshells?!? Oh, just remembered I had a 10-spoke driver centre done by Don Davidson too.
Jason
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Mick, looking at the photos @JasonD linked to the truck frames appear to be standard gauge with narrow gauge wheel sets. The option is to acquire new narrow gauge wheel sets assuming the trucks allow them to be dropped in.
It does, and going through all those pages I unfortunately can't see any reference to standard gauge until it was in Mexico.

So it's either re-gauge to On3 or rule #1 and I wonder why it was offered in Ow5 and P48 to begin with.
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
Thanks for the reminder Dave, I've sent Rich Yoder a note to see if he's aware of any 3ft w'sets. I'd forgotten about the drop-in replacement design. Don't worry Mick, I haven't ordered any. I wonder if GE did make any std gauge versions?
Jason
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Thanks for the reminder Dave, I've sent Rich Yoder a note to see if he's aware of any 3ft w'sets. I'd forgotten about the drop-in replacement design. Don't worry Mick, I haven't ordered any. I wonder if GE did make any std gauge versions?
Jason
From what I've read, yes, nearly 99% or basically most of the rest were standard gauge, though I haven't checked all the others built in detail but didn't recognize any Railroads that might be narrow gauge. I think (and I may be incorrect) SP #1 was the only narrow gauge 50 tonner.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
A little more progress on the ACF CF3200 covered hopper.

I kind of made a bit of a foobar when I cut the shell and boxed myself into a corner. Back then when I cut the Weaver shell I assumed all 2 bay hoppers were the same size, give or take a bit and being as I had a drawing for the 3200 took the measurements off that to make the cuts.

Turns out all 2 bays are not the same and lengths vary from 32 to 39' in hopper lengths, most keep the same frame lengths between couplers of around 41-43'. Long story short the 3200 isn't a big batch model, early models were only built for one year (65-66) and totaled 605 cars, the second batch was built over a longer period (90-06) but again only 901 cars, frankly I was struggling to find one that suited my perceived traffic flow and paint scheme/railroad/lessor. The later ones are not given to mixing era's unless your modeling up to dater stuff, which I'd like to do (generic stock and scenery, change the power for era's and Railroads.

Anyway, after much digging I finally found that some of the early batch were still being refurbished/serviced and going strong in 2006 so that kind of clinched it, plus they're in BNSF red oxide which I rather like.

One advantage of the early batch is that all the brakes are below decks which makes all the rigging (if any at all) on the end platforms/porches much easier/non existent. The down side is high level handbrake mechanisms and more complex end cages and steps.

Basically my chopped shell now had a prototype to match so I sallied forth.

First up was a new end sheet in brass, scribed and bent to shape and secured to the shell with copious amounts of super glue, it'll not come off as eventually pretty much all the of the brass will be seam soldered, at that stage you could probably remove the plastic core, bit like the paper mache balloon heads I used to make at primary school.

Step two was the porch/end deck, I've made a bit of an error in the first one and cut it a little too thin to meet the new lower cills when they get fitted, there is an inner cover plate but it would have been nice if the floor went full width to give extra strength. The rear of the porch has two large pieces of scrap 0.7 mm etch added, these hook behind the Plasticard end wall and when glued with Devcon 5 min is a rock solid platform. The porch extends into the inner area and two 8BA nuts (plus two the other end) will help secure the inner hopper and gate sub section later.

The end plates will also support the combined draft gear box and truck bolster, Kaydees will be fitted but not in their housings I bin them and fit them into my detailed 3D draft boxes with a closure plate. That way I can retain the compression springing and auto extending on curves and have decent looking draft boxes. The concept worked very well on the EMD 2nd Gen diesel test build.

The final step for today was the side skin, a sheet of 10 thou rolled to the right profile and the ends shaped accordingly, the welded seam representations look okay for now but might diminish after paint but there are some tricks you can do with aggressive and dark base colours to enhance the visual effect if you lay the final layer thinly.

IMG_0951.jpg

The side skin is just held on with double sided tape for the photos, it needs to come off to all the second end sheet to be profiled accurately once fitted. The thin skin overlap over the end sheet is exactly why I've gone to all this effort, on the Weaver model it's virtually non existent and what is there is massively thick.

IMG_0952.jpg

IMG_0953.jpg

IMG_0955.jpg

The next stage is to replicate these three parts for the other side and end, then form the lower cills and new upper cills and just for the hell of it I'll skin the roof as it has a small overhang at the end sheets.
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
The next stage is to replicate these three parts for the other side and end, then form the lower cills and new upper cills and just for the hell of it I'll skin the roof as it has a small overhang at the end sheets.
Looking good but I am struggling to see why you need to cut up plastic models if you are building more of them. Now you have worked out the shapes of all the external parts I would think a few more profiled brass shapes would provide enough internal structure and you could solder it all together. Less mess, quicker, more durable........
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Looking good but I am struggling to see why you need to cut up plastic models if you are building more of them. Now you have worked out the shapes of all the external parts I would think a few more profiled brass shapes would provide enough internal structure and you could solder it all together. Less mess, quicker, more durable........
I can see why one might think that and logically that'd be the way to go, but from my perspective I find it easier to stick 10 thou sheets onto a solid plastic core than to make the material thicker to support itself and then faff about with all the internal supports/dividers.

A good example is the end sheets, you don't need to mark them out very accurately, so long as they are larger than the core then that'll be fine, you simply then file back the metal to match the core. No scribed lines to check, no measuring, no curvatures to cross reference, just file back until you reach the plastic.

If it were all brass then the ends would have to be measured and marked out accurately as would the inner bulkheads and support frame work, just seems like a lot of effort checking and cross referencing, no need with the Weaver core, it's all done and worked out for you.

As an etch then yes it has huge merit as an all metal fabrication and that'll probably (almost certainly) be where this all ends up, certainly with the Thrusills and ribbed versions, the ACF's always had an eye on etched kit type construction before all this began but this seemed a quicker path to test the waters. It's not about saving time either, if it were I'd just buy RTR and swap out the three rail wheels.

At the end of the day it's just a simple dot to dot, paint by numbers, Dorothy follows the yellow brick road build, there's little to think or work out, the fact I've chosen brass is probably the odd bit, if I had decided to use Plasticard to give thin overhangs, correctly profiled lower cills and cant rail cills then I doubt anyone would bat an eye lid.

The plastic models are virtually free, people just can't seem to give away Weaver ACF covered hoppers, if you pay more than £30 then you've been robbed, I'm simply using them to replace all the expensive brass inner core if it were an all metal model.

I'll probably only do one and then go full on with an etched variant using the 3D bits developed on this one, if that's the case then I can at least sit back and say I tried, I did something. I've always said I'd rather do something and fail or get a near miss, than do nothing for fear of not achieving perfection.

I don't expect anyone to reason or understand why I do it this way, all I can say is that this cack handed arse about face modeling works for me :thumbs:
 
Last edited:

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Getting on and making something is always good. Building a good kit can be therapeutic and less taxing than scratchbuilding, won’t mention bad kits.

I saw the logic of building one hopper this way, I was just thinking that multiples may not be so much fun. If you had been using 10 thou plasticard for the skins I would have been more concerned - thin exposed edges become brittle and prone to damage, brass is far more durable.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Depends how many you want really, at most I can't see the need for more than 10-15 covered hoppers on the layout, not all will be ACF 3200, a few will be smaller 2970/2980 and I'd like some even smaller CSX 2700 to be honest. The rest will be Thrusills/ribbed, the latter with their slab sides, angular roofs and under floors are perfect for all brass construction.

You might be able to use the Weaver core for the ACF/Thrall Thrusill but you'd need to cut back the hem line and adjust the side sheets accordingly, possibly more work than use.

Getting back to the point, probably only 5 or 6 to build really and hacking the Weaver shell to give a inner core takes all of ten minutes and most of that time is waiting for the glue to set before adding the second half. I don't think I could mark out, cut out and assemble an inner brass core in that time.
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
I always wondered why Weaver started covered hoppers with the 4-bay ACF Centerflo. He could have sold twice as many 2-bay or even 3-bay to fit in a given space, but I suppose those basement layouts need filling!
Jason
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Today the Batcave was powered up and signed off; now I can work in the warm and light to progress the remaining bits, namely the layout side of things and some more shelves.
Mickoo

For code 124 fb rail it might be easier for you to get some from Karlgarin Models in Chelmsford, they do very nice code 125 flat bottom rail (and O scale code 100 and 82 rails). I have both right-o-way and Karlgarin rail and they are difficult to tell apart.

Are the flat sleeper plates only for turnouts? Most sleeper plates (tie plates) are hot rolled with a 1 in 20 slope to tilt the rail.
As an update from six years ago on Jordan's thread, I've just ordered 100' of code 125 FB rail from Karlgarin, I've opted for this due to the higher Ni content which should give a more steel like appearance, plus I couldn't find much 125 or 148 rail anywhere else to be honest and I think most other rail has a more yellow look to it. Time now to start chopping sleepers, printing tie plates and etching spikes.

A layout design might be handy too, that might be easier once I have the boards down later in the week and can stick stock on there to give a spacial orientation.

All very loose seat of the pants sort of stuff at the moment, but I have a germ of an idea which I'll work on as I go along.
 
Last edited:

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Jason, you're mixing threads again :rolleyes::))

I've moved it here but your original reply is still in the other thread.

As well as Karlgarin for track parts http://www.karlgarin.com/rail_flatbottom_sizes.pdf , Marcway in Sheffield used to supply code 125 and 148 F/B track and turnouts (sorry Brian - points). They have supplied soldered track with slimmer ties at closer spacing, but way back I got F/B rail from them and turnouts in kit form. Worth a phone-call or a better look at their website Welcome to Marcway.net than I just did.

Jason
Marcway have no rail in stock


From what I can see, it's the yellow tinted nickel silver variety anyway, the colour difference is subtle but obvious, same goes for Peco rail.

Doesn't look like Marcway have many US switches in stock either, ready made or kit form; but I'm of the mind, why have a dog and bark yourself.


Ideally I would have liked code 143 in High Ni but I can't seem to find any, certainly not in the UK, so I'll go with 125.

I have switch templates from Fast Tracks, they're good enough for me and free, I'll probably cross reference them with UP, SP and DRG Common standard switch drawings I have for little details but on the whole I don't get too hung up on track work to be fair.
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
So this info may be in another thread by now:
The link isn't to Peco point parts, it's to their rail. How does one stop ****** websites doing this? Bedtime Jason.
But honestly, I did have to go to Lidl ... out of milk and bread :oops:
 
Last edited:
Top