Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Dog Star]

Brian (Daniels), agreed.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Sure img513 of the Hall is coming into Bramley on the down?

My thought exactly, not far north of the level crossing. I thought that I recognised the farm houses on the RHS from when I lived in the village between 1988 and 1994. The power lines maybe a clincher for there is a 25KV hub at Bramley Frith.

Brian, img 441 does not fit between Basingstoke and Bramley IFF the photo shows a train heading from Bramley to Basingstoke as per your caption. On the other hand, if the service is heading north from Basingstoke towards Bramley then a likely location is just north of the bridge which carries Crockford Lane over the railway. I think that there was a footpath crossing of the line about halfway between Crockford Lane and Cufaude Lane bridges, might be an overbridge looking at Google satellite view. Dave, @Yorkshire Dave , can you consult NLS and advise?

The first image is the through freight entering Bramley from the north and the electricity power lines are the confirmation. The second is where you both have identified as the footbridge south of the Cufaude Lane road bridge. In this image the train is heading north towards Reading West and therefore the loco must have been turned at Basingstoke.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Standard Class 4 4-6-0 75077 on an unknown date and at an unidentified location. This was a Nine Elms engine between March 1963 and June 1965 when it moved to Eastleigh. Withdrawal followed when steam ended in July 1967 and the loco was scrapped in October the same year at R A Kings, Norwich.

The headcode is Southampton - Waterloo.

This is just west of Pirbright Junction at the 30 milepost (out of shot on the left). Behind the brick wall is the Basingstoke Canal with the tops of concrete fence posts poking above. I found a towpath view and the concrete fence posts are still there - it was a shame the wall couldn't be seen due to today's vegetation. At the date of the photo the canal (opened in 1794) was derelict and becoming choked with weeds. Restoration began in 1977 and the canal became navigable in 1991.

Behind the photographer is Brunswick Road over bridge which leads from Pirbright Common to Pirbright Army Camp (from the photographer's left to right as viewed in the photo).

This NLS OS 1:1,250/1:2,500 1944-75 series extract shows the location. Green = Pirbright Army Camp; Blue = Basingstoke Canal; Red = Photo location.

 

[Dog Star]

Interesting point made by Dave - if he is correct in that the loco is working north and south on the same day then the loco has been turned somewhere and not necessarily at Basingstoke - just depends on which is the earlier service. Or maybe the photos are on different days and the loco was a regular on those services.

Ok Brian @oldravendale , you have now got the locations and the direction of working ... Is the first time we have had to discuss where an engine has been turned?

Rgds, Graham

 

[readingtype]

behind the tender a freight brake van followed by coaches

How about a third rail multiple unit, Mk1-based, ex-works? Not sure that makes a lot of sense, but those carriages are very shiny (therefore freshly painted) and there's something about the running boards at the vehicle ends, and the bogies. It looks like an express unit, were these ever in green?

Ben

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Interesting point made by Dave - if he is correct in that the loco is working north and south on the same day then the loco has been turned somewhere and not necessarily at Basingstoke - just depends on which is the earlier service. Or maybe the photos are on different days and the loco was a regular on those services.

My hunch is the loco wouldn't have worked any further than Basingstoke as you are on SR metals. Added to which the tender would have had a water scoop which would have barred it from the SR due to the electrified lines.

 

[AJC]

How about a third rail multiple unit, Mk1-based, ex-works? Not sure that makes a lot of sense, but those carriages are very shiny (therefore freshly painted) and there's something about the running boards at the vehicle ends, and the bogies. It looks like an express unit, were these ever in green?

Ben

I think that's a good call - the bogies look right (you can see the damper brackets which weren't present on steam stock with BR or Commonwealth bogies and I reckon there's a shoe beam at the outer end), and yes, early 4 CIGs were introduced in green...

Adam

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

How about a third rail multiple unit, Mk1-based, ex-works? Not sure that makes a lot of sense, but those carriages are very shiny (therefore freshly painted) and there's something about the running boards at the vehicle ends, and the bogies. It looks like an express unit, were these ever in green?

Yes, as Adam @AJC has alluded to, you can see a shoe beam on the leading bogie and orange curtains in the nearest carriage. The 4-CIGs and 4-BIGs were built at York (Holgate Road) so it's probably heading towards Eastleigh for further fitting out and electrical equipment.

 

[Dog Star]

My hunch is the loco wouldn't have worked any further than Basingstoke as you are on SR metals. Added to which the tender would have had a water scoop which would have barred it from the SR due to the electrified lines.

What you say about GWR tenders being barred from running over SR / BR(SR) metals would be just as applicable to ex-GWR engines running south of Winchester to Southampton... or beyond Guilford to Redhill.... More likely that the scoop mechanism was locked "up".

What we need here is a WTT for the line between Reading and Basingstoke to establish what are possible goods services.

Rgds, Graham

 

[Mike Walker]

My hunch is the loco wouldn't have worked any further than Basingstoke as you are on SR metals. Added to which the tender would have had a water scoop which would have barred it from the SR due to the electrified lines.

GWR locos used to regularly run through from Basingstoke to Southampton and this would have been prior to electrification anyway.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

GWR locos used to regularly run through from Basingstoke to Southampton and this would have been prior to electrification anyway.

The electrification from Pirbright Junction via Basingstoke to Branksome (Bournemouth) was started in 1964 and became fully operational in 1967. We can see the work was under way when the photo of 75077 was taken next to the Basingstoke Canal as the top of the conductor rail is rusty.

Branksome - Weymouth was electrified in 1988 750v DC 3rd rail.

Reading - Basingstoke is planned for electrification at 25kV AC overhead. Who knows when as it was supposed to be part of the Paddington - Cardiff electrification scheme.

 

[oldravendale]

So much information! All wonderful stuff and duly recorded. So thanks to Brian @Brian Daniels , Graham @Dog Star (and yes, we have seen locos going out and back in the black & white series and usually on the GN main line), Dave @Yorkshire Dave , Ben @readingtype , Adam @AJC and Mike @Mike Walker . All the info supplied helps expand the descriptions of the photos and was badly needed.

These two photos are of a loco seen previously in post #5624 on page 282 and were probably taken at the same time, so the information is repeated here:

Modified Hall 6998 Burton Agnes Hall at Southall Shed at some time around 1965. This loco is clearly better looked after than most of those I saw at the time at Southall. Maybe this was because the GWS had an eye on it as it was eventually bought out of service by them. It was on the Southall allocation from June 1964 and then Oxford from August/September 1965. It was withdrawn in December 1965/January 1966. (BR Database). Details at 6998 Burton Agnes Hall. On the left of the first photo (img413) is what appears to be a Parcels Railcar but details elude me.





I know there's an interest in traction engines so we’ll pop a couple of these in occasionally. First is Burrell Showmans Road Locomotive 3884 Gladiator of 1921. Registration No is XH5728. Neither date or location is known. For further details of the engine see 3884 GLADIATOR



This is an Aveling & Porter (strictly speaking Aveling-Barford) general purpose steam tractor 11997 Lucy May of 1926 registration number KO6739. Location and date unknown.



Brian

 

[AndyB]

I think img 460 & 461 are likely the same event as Aveling 'Lucy May' is seen at the right hand end of the engine line in img460. The blue tractor at the left of the engine line is most likely Sentinel Super Tractor, number 5644 of 1924, Reg 757 CTT. This engine has railway connections as it used to be used for shunting at Teignmouth Docks. There were very few built (and even fewer surviving) of that type, and other contemporary pictures of 5644 match the colour scheme. It is now in Holland, and red.
In the mid 80's, the Sentinel was based in Southampton area, the Aveling in Saffron Waldron and the Burrell in Bournemouth.
Fairly sure the second showmans engine is a Fowler, but haven't managed to match a likely name and registration to the fuzz in the picture.
The other 3 engines are pretty hard to work out, unless we can get a slightly clearer close-up of the registrations (or more pictures around the same time / film).
Andy

 

[AndyB]

As can be seen on the plate on the motion cover, Aveling 11997 was worked by Taylor Bros of Wimbish, Rolling Contractors. She was acquired in preservation by Chris Lambert of Horsmondon, part of his collection of over 50 engines, which was dispersed by auction in 1955.
There is a picture of her from 1977 here - with some subtle black lining on the wheels (and the owners plate is different). I can't decide whether the gaudy yellow lining in Tim's picture pre- or post-dates that...... Looks like the hub caps are painted gold, as imitation brass.

 

[AJC]

As can be seen on the plate on the motion cover, Aveling 11997 was worked by Taylor Bros of Wimbish, Rolling Contractors. She was acquired in preservation by Chris Lambert of Horsmondon, part of his collection of over 50 engines, which was dispersed by auction in 1955.
There is a picture of her from 1977 here - with some subtle black lining on the wheels (and the owners plate is different). I can't decide whether the gaudy yellow lining in Tim's picture pre- or post-dates that...... Looks like the hub caps are painted gold, as imitation brass.

Here's another shot, from 1961, taken just over the hill from where I'm typing this:

https://flic.kr/p/2fGPGzj

I'd no idea that they'd ever been a rally at 'Penshurst Aerodrome' (in Leigh parish, far closer to Chiddingstone Causeway where, admittedly, Penshurst station is [seemingly in Chiddingstone parish, not that the whole causeway in fact is...]), so I've learned something!

Adam

 

[David B]

The parcels railcar is a Gloucester RC&W single unit - most probably either W55991 or W55992, which spent their entire long lives working between Paddington and Reading, with occasional outings to Didcot and Oxford. They were direct replacements for earlier GW AEC parcels railcars. Somewhere I have a photo of me in my pushchair in front of one of them at Didcot in 1966.

 

[Mike Walker]

Not their entire lives. Both were transferred to the Eastern by the late 1980s and painted in bright red Royal Mail livery.