Prototype Tim Mills' Photos
- Thread starter oldravendale
- Start date
Arun Sharma
Western Thunderer
I would have said that the pic of the two characters together was taken just NE of where the B6105 curves to the North - That making the body of water the Woodhead Reservoir. Suggest a grid reference of SK082993.
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James Spooner
Western Thunderer
I can’t help with the loco in the first photo but the carriage is the former ex GER directors’ saloon built at Stratford in 1912, that was bought by the late Sir William McAlpine and was kept at Carnforth for a few years. According to the Railway Heritage Register Carriage Survey it is now stored (intact) in a bus garage in Chesterfield under the aegis of Independent Rail Engineering.
Nigel
Nigel
John Palmer
Western Thunderer
I think img011 may be Arnside, and img014 may be Grange-over-Sands, but I'm not familiar with either of these locations so could well be wrong!
PhilH
Western Thunderer
In the first photo the loco would be Hudswell Clarke works no.1864, named at the time FIREFLY. It was supplied new in 1952 to the NCB North Yorkshire Area's Whitwood Colliery where it was numbered S103. After serving at various other collieries in the North Yorkshire Area it was moved to the Steamtown Railway Centre at Carnforth in April 1979, where the above photo was taken in 1984. At Carnforth it was given the name FIREFLY. In 1988 it was sold for use as a static exhibit at a leisure facility and restaurant at the disused seaward platform of Colwyn Bay Station named "Platform 3" and lifted in place from the promenade by a large mobile crane. A coach, possibly also from Carnforth, was lifted at the same time to use as the restaurant. Unfortunately the scheme was a flop and after a period of disuse the loco was sold. I believe it is (or was recently) being restored for use on the Dartmoor Railway.
Arun Sharma
Western Thunderer
014 is almost certainly Grange over Sands - I had a house there for about 20+ years and it looks right.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Well, we're off to a good start with locations identified and details of a previously unidentified loco. Thanks to Arun, Martin @40057 , Nigel @James Spooner , John @John Palmer and Phil @PhilH . Thanks also to Tony @76043 for your kind words.
Some considerable variety today.
Flying Scotsman on a visit to the Nene Valley Railway in 1993 variously identified as Sandwich and Flying Fox. I believe these are all at Wansford and I’ve chosen a few of the best – there are far too many to create an interesting presentation on here!
Tim had a long interest in London Transport RT and RM buses. They’ll appear here from time to time and the first three photos here are of London Transport AEC Regent III RT679 Reg No JXC42 of June 1948 at Muswell Hill on route 102 on 8th February 1978. Note that this still has the London TransporT identification in gold which I, personally, have always found more classy than the roundel in white. See “Bus Lists on the Web”
Single decker SMS754 an AEC Sw of September 1971 and on route 244 still identified as London Transport but not in gold or with the bracketing “R” and “T”. This is at Muswell Hill on 8th February 1978. See “Bus Lists on the Web”.
Another London Transport AEC Regent III RT3251 of July 1950, Reg No LLU610 on route 89 to Lewisham at Blackheath Village on 10th February 1978. See “Bus Lists on the Web”.
Brian
Some considerable variety today.
Flying Scotsman on a visit to the Nene Valley Railway in 1993 variously identified as Sandwich and Flying Fox. I believe these are all at Wansford and I’ve chosen a few of the best – there are far too many to create an interesting presentation on here!
Tim had a long interest in London Transport RT and RM buses. They’ll appear here from time to time and the first three photos here are of London Transport AEC Regent III RT679 Reg No JXC42 of June 1948 at Muswell Hill on route 102 on 8th February 1978. Note that this still has the London TransporT identification in gold which I, personally, have always found more classy than the roundel in white. See “Bus Lists on the Web”
Single decker SMS754 an AEC Sw of September 1971 and on route 244 still identified as London Transport but not in gold or with the bracketing “R” and “T”. This is at Muswell Hill on 8th February 1978. See “Bus Lists on the Web”.
Another London Transport AEC Regent III RT3251 of July 1950, Reg No LLU610 on route 89 to Lewisham at Blackheath Village on 10th February 1978. See “Bus Lists on the Web”.
Brian
D869Zest
Active Member
Nice to see a class 76 turning up on this thread! The absence of MU fittings will narrow down the possible identities... but if the date matches my 1980 'combine', that still leaves 10 possibilities.
I think Arun has the right spot on the map for the photos, but perhaps I can add a bit more info - I think this is the Manchester end of the former Crowden station site. That is why the overhead portals are double width in this location. If you google for photos of Crowden station you should turn up some similar looking images (on Facebook... but google will show you a preview) including those portals with the extra diagonal braces seen in the photo of the two people walking.
I think Arun has the right spot on the map for the photos, but perhaps I can add a bit more info - I think this is the Manchester end of the former Crowden station site. That is why the overhead portals are double width in this location. If you google for photos of Crowden station you should turn up some similar looking images (on Facebook... but google will show you a preview) including those portals with the extra diagonal braces seen in the photo of the two people walking.
76043
Western Thunderer
I thought I recognised RT3251, it's preserved today.
www.ensignbushire.com
When new it was of the green ones allocated to Romford Green Line garage, possibly being one my father learnt to drive on as it was at Romford until the RCLs turned in 1965. Later on it ended up at Barking and made to the last day of the RTs on the 62's. As it worked out if Barking I may have seen it myself.
Tony
Charter (Details) – Ensignbus
www.ensignbushire.com
When new it was of the green ones allocated to Romford Green Line garage, possibly being one my father learnt to drive on as it was at Romford until the RCLs turned in 1965. Later on it ended up at Barking and made to the last day of the RTs on the 62's. As it worked out if Barking I may have seen it myself.
Tony
Where those RTs still in conventional traffic in 1978? We travelled on them to school everyday in the 1960s, on the 90 route and were very put out when the 117 route got Routemasters possibly as early as 1962.
Oh for a modern world where buses could simply pick up passengers and get on their way without blocking everything up with customers paying/scanning cards as they queue in the rain to get on.
Paul
Oh for a modern world where buses could simply pick up passengers and get on their way without blocking everything up with customers paying/scanning cards as they queue in the rain to get on.
Paul
Arun Sharma
Western Thunderer
The last day of the RT in normal service was on April 7, 1979 on route 62 from Barking. It was intended that the Routemaster would be the trolleybus replacement but the first five [out of 12] replacement stages were carried out using RT/RTL buses. It wasn't until late 1959 that trolleybus routes were operated by RMs even though the first RM prototype ran in 1954.
From a London operators viewpoint, the "Holy Grail" was a bus operated by one person, automated fare collection [so no time spend in handling/counting/accounting for monies on the bus/at the garage], and approximately 100 passengers on board. Unsurprisingly, there were years of union resistance to this concept and it is only since the ability of each bus to act as a near-instantaneous credit/debit card reader that the system has worked as desired by LT/TfL/Operators.
From a London operators viewpoint, the "Holy Grail" was a bus operated by one person, automated fare collection [so no time spend in handling/counting/accounting for monies on the bus/at the garage], and approximately 100 passengers on board. Unsurprisingly, there were years of union resistance to this concept and it is only since the ability of each bus to act as a near-instantaneous credit/debit card reader that the system has worked as desired by LT/TfL/Operators.
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oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Some more "thank yous" are in order here, firstly for more info about the Woodhead photos from @D869Zest and then to Tony @76043 , Paul @hrmspaul and Arun for further details about the RTs and their operation.
London Transport AEC Routemaster RML2396 of November 1966, Reg No JJD396D, photographed in January 1978 on route 102 to Golders Green. The only clue I can find to location is the shop sign “The Broadway Warehouse” and “Broadway” is in Westminster – also the HQ of the London Underground at No 55 although I’m rather doubtful as the scenery has the look of somewhere in North London. (Those Pulhams get everywhere, don’t you know – look at the shop signs in the background.) Bus info “Bus Lists on the Web”.
There’s now a sequence of photos in Czechoslovakia. I know nothing of Czech railways or locos so will welcome some help – any help – with these. There is a saving grace here as the photos have descriptions on the mounts. However, Tim’s writing is somewhat difficult to read so the descriptions are the best I can make out from the information supplied. (As a side comment I was friendly with a Croatian who was in the same business as me who delighted in the name Milan Krsljanin. That’s five consonants before the first vowel so these titles are, perhaps, not quite as outlandish as they initially appear).
The first is what I believe to be a 2-10-0, No 556-036 and photographed at Prakovce on 24th September 1992. There’s also a little shunting engine tucked in on the right hand side of the frame but there’s no reference to this in Tim’s note so I have no further information. The second is on a run past at Stratena and the third and fourth are on the run past at Svermovo all on the same date.
I have a confusion of information for this one. The loco number in the photo is clearly U36-003 but the info on the slide mount advises it to be 436-003 and Hagans 174/84 on the metre gauge Cermel Pioneer Railway in Czechoslovakia. It’s an 0-6-0T and was photographed on 23rd September 1992.
Edit. 436-003 is an electric loco.
Brian
London Transport AEC Routemaster RML2396 of November 1966, Reg No JJD396D, photographed in January 1978 on route 102 to Golders Green. The only clue I can find to location is the shop sign “The Broadway Warehouse” and “Broadway” is in Westminster – also the HQ of the London Underground at No 55 although I’m rather doubtful as the scenery has the look of somewhere in North London. (Those Pulhams get everywhere, don’t you know – look at the shop signs in the background.) Bus info “Bus Lists on the Web”.
There’s now a sequence of photos in Czechoslovakia. I know nothing of Czech railways or locos so will welcome some help – any help – with these. There is a saving grace here as the photos have descriptions on the mounts. However, Tim’s writing is somewhat difficult to read so the descriptions are the best I can make out from the information supplied. (As a side comment I was friendly with a Croatian who was in the same business as me who delighted in the name Milan Krsljanin. That’s five consonants before the first vowel so these titles are, perhaps, not quite as outlandish as they initially appear).
The first is what I believe to be a 2-10-0, No 556-036 and photographed at Prakovce on 24th September 1992. There’s also a little shunting engine tucked in on the right hand side of the frame but there’s no reference to this in Tim’s note so I have no further information. The second is on a run past at Stratena and the third and fourth are on the run past at Svermovo all on the same date.
I have a confusion of information for this one. The loco number in the photo is clearly U36-003 but the info on the slide mount advises it to be 436-003 and Hagans 174/84 on the metre gauge Cermel Pioneer Railway in Czechoslovakia. It’s an 0-6-0T and was photographed on 23rd September 1992.
Edit. 436-003 is an electric loco.
Brian
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Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Re #039 your spot on Brian, its Muswell Hill Broadway and the bus is turning right into Fortis Green Road, at least my distant memory suggests so.
Martin
Martin
Barry37
Western Thunderer
Around 1970, there was a conductor on the Southdown 12 service from Brighton-Eastbourne. He bore an uncanny resemblance to Derek Guyler, and wore a bow tie.
Towards the end of a shift, he used to "sell" his small change to passengers, especially "shillings for the meter', which would make counting at the garage easier.
michael080
Western Thunderer
The 556 class looks pretty much like a German 52 class, but it is in fact a much advanced design. Through the occupation, Scoda built many of the Kriegslokomotiven for the Reich. After the war, they used their experience with this class and improved the design significantly. The engines had roller bearings, an automated stoker and many other improvements.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Oooh! Thank you Brian for those images of RT's. Always nice to see more shots of old friends!
In this case, particularly of a familiar RT3251. I was invited to have a very (very) naughty go at driving RT3016 on the 62. It was only a short distance from the quiet terminus of the Gascoigne Estate, late on the Wednesday night during that last week of service in April 1978.
Everything felt so smooth and responsive, despite the fact that the vehicle was way, way past it's expiry date. The term; like a worn out pair of comfortable old slippers seemed to apply!
3016, 3251 and me were there at Barking on the last day, although sadly the former was dispatched for breaking at Wombwell almost immediately thereafter, more fortunately, the latter passed to enthusiasts. Imagine my surprise when 3251 turned up in my Suffolk home town one day in 2007. As a result of that meeting I was able to use it later for a series of reference drawings in order to produce this piece:
Apologies for the thread bomb, but it brought back so many wonderful memories!
Pete.
In this case, particularly of a familiar RT3251. I was invited to have a very (very) naughty go at driving RT3016 on the 62. It was only a short distance from the quiet terminus of the Gascoigne Estate, late on the Wednesday night during that last week of service in April 1978.
Everything felt so smooth and responsive, despite the fact that the vehicle was way, way past it's expiry date. The term; like a worn out pair of comfortable old slippers seemed to apply!
3016, 3251 and me were there at Barking on the last day, although sadly the former was dispatched for breaking at Wombwell almost immediately thereafter, more fortunately, the latter passed to enthusiasts. Imagine my surprise when 3251 turned up in my Suffolk home town one day in 2007. As a result of that meeting I was able to use it later for a series of reference drawings in order to produce this piece:
Apologies for the thread bomb, but it brought back so many wonderful memories!
Pete.
Route 102 can still be found on the TfL website.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
I have a confusion of information for this one. The loco number in the photo is clearly U36-003 but the info on the slide mount advises it to be 436-003 and Hagans 174/84 on the metre gauge Cermel Pioneer Railway in Czechoslovakia. It’s an 0-6-0T and was photographed on 23rd September 1992.
ČSD 436.003 is an electric loco.