Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

A week after the previous series Tim was on BR(WR) territory and later in the day (for a future post) on the WCML.

First a shot which raises a question. This is described as an unidentified Castle on a down Worcester train at Old Oak Common on 23rd May 1962. (However, I'll not be in the slightest surprised if someone identifies the loco just by looking at it. I suspect it is, however, one of the "first generation" Castles.) But note the headboard. I've dug as far as I'm willing to go, which admittedly is not far, but I can't find a named Worcester train. Was there one?



Next is Modified Hall 6990 Witherslack Hall on a down Oxford train, again at Old Oak Common on 23rd May 1962. We've seen the loco in post #2243, but copying across details are: 6990 was an Old Oak engine when the photo was taken, moved around a bit before withdrawal in December 1965 (SLS) and is famously now on the GCR at Loughborough by way of Woodham Bros at Barry.



Castle 5038 Morlais Castle reversing on the up flyover at Old Oak Common on 23rd May 1962. It had moved to Oxford from Banbury on 19th May, then to Reading in November before being withdrawn either on 17th or 29th September 1963. (SLS - but SLS and BR Database agree on 17th). It was scrapped in June 1964 at Cashmore's, Newport. (BR Database.)



This is described as "General view of area with unknown Castle at Old Oak Common on 23rd May 1962", a description upon which I cannot improve.



Finally we have Modified Hall 7906 Fron Hall reversing on the up flyover at Old Oak Common on 23rd May 1962. This was previously in post# 1156 so I repeat the notes here: A Reading engine from 1950 until June 1963 when it went to Oxford. It then went back to Reading but was finally at Oxford again from where it was withdrawn in March 1965. It was scrapped at Swindon Works at the end of May the same year.



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

From 1957 until 1965 the Cathedrals Express ran from Hereford and Worcester to Paddington so likely that and as far as I can remember it was powered by Worcester sheds Castles of which quite rightly 7005 Sir Edward Elgar was one.

6990 Witherslack Hall 15/5/48 Old Oak Common, 7/10/50 Oxford, 29/12/51 Old Oak, 2/11/63 St Philips Marsh, 22/6/64 Barrow Road, Wdn 3/12/65.
7906 Fron Hall Traffic 29/12/49 (presumably Swindon), 28/1/50 St Philips Marsh, 7/10/50 Reading then as per Brian's post.
Regards
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Martin. Excellent info as usual. If I'm not imposing would you let me know your references so I can add them to your notes?

Today we continue with the WR theme.

94XX 0-6-0PT 9420 on empty stock on the up flyover at Old Oak Common on 23rd May 1962. Seen previously in post #1096 9420 was a long time Old Oak engine, going there in 1951 until withdrawal in March 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped in August the same year at Swindon. (Rail UK).



General view of the area with Castle 7006 Lydford Castle on the up Capitals Ltd at Old Oak Common on 23rd May 1962. Seen previously a few times including post #1185 since March 1962 it had been an Old Oak loco, being withdrawn from there in mid December 1963. (SLS). It went to Bird's, Risca where it was scrapped in August 1964. (Rail UK).



Two framings of the same neg show15XX 0-6-0PT 1504 on empty stock at Old Oak Common on 23rd May 1962. Seen a few times previously, last in post #1964 it was an Old Oak Common engine for all its short life being withdrawn in early May 1963. (SLS). It went to T W Ward at Briton Ferry where it was scrapped by May 1964. (Rail UK)





Another general view of the area with King 6012 King Edward VI on a down Birmingham train at Old Oak Common on 23rd May 1962. In April 1962 it had moved from Old Oak to Stafford Road and was withdrawn from there in September. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cox & Danks, Oldbury in October 1963. (BR Database).



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

9420 spent a year at Reading (6/50 - 5/51) before heading off to Old Oak.
1504 Old Oak 19/8/49, Wdn 2/5/63, Sold T.W.Ward Sheffield 29/1/64. (Actually Briton Ferry sounds more likely but that's what the ref says. Its last works visit was to Caerphilly leaving 13/4/61 so perhaps S Wales isn't as strange as at first glimpse.
6012 Newton Abbot 21/4/28, Laira 5/7/28, Old Oak 19/6/54, Stafford Road 3/4/62, Wdn 21/9/62.

I'm sorry I don't have any reliableish info on the Castle class, but otherwise it all comes from the Irwell Books of.

From a very wet Glasgow
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks again, Martin, and for the references. Sorry about the weather!

Today in the same area as the previous shots and then a diversion to the WCML.

Castle 5060 Earl of Berkeley leaving the shed area at Old Oak Common for Paddington on 23rd May 1962. This location brings back memories for me - I spent many happy hours on this footbridge by the signals and watched the movements in and out of the shed even recording a movie from there at one time so it's another location where I might have met Tim before I even knew him. Anyway, 5060 belonged to Old Oak and had since 1951. It was withdrawn in April 1963. (SLS). It went back to Swindon Works where it was scrapped in March 1964.



The first of the Hawksworth Modified Halls 6959 Peatling Hall light engine on the main line at Old Oak Common on 23rd May 1962. We've discussed this loco and seen photos before, notably in post #1013. 6959 had been at Old Oak Common since 1947 until transfer to Southall in June 1964. It then went to Oxford in September 1965 and was withdrawn in mid-January 1966. (SLS). It then went to Cashmore's, Newport, for scrapping which happened in April 1966. (BR Database).



Princess Coronation 46253 City of St Albans on the down Northern Irishman at North Wembley on 23rd May 1962. Seen previously in post #1843 it had lived at Crewe North since 1957 from where it was withdrawn in January 1963. (SLS). It was demolished at Crewe Works by the end of May. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

The following three photos complete the set from 23rd May, but Tim was at the lineside again on 25th as we'll see later. May 1962 was a prolific month for him! Judging by the withdrawal dates for many of the express locos here it was also the last year when they were fully employed.

Royal Scot 46134 The Cheshire Regiment on a down fitted freight at North Wembley on 23rd May 1962. It's a nice touch to have the viewers to the right of the frame. Seen previously in post #1736 it was an Edge Hill engine finally being allocated to Carlisle Upperby in June 1962 and withdrawn from there at the beginning of December 1962. It was seen in the scrap road at Crewe Works in April 1963 (SLS) where it was scrapped by the end of the month. (Rail UK).



Jubilee 45625 Sarawak on another down fitted freight at North Wembley on 23rd May 1962. By now it was a Carnforth engine and had been since 5th May. It was withdrawn from there in September 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped at Crewe Works in November.



In the opposite Direction Fairburn 2-6-4T 42097 is on an up freight at North Wembley on 23rd May 1962. It had been a Watford engine since December 1959, having been built for the Southern Region where it was in use previously. It was withdrawn from Watford in December 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore, Great Bridge, in February 1963. (BR Database).


Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Two days after the above series Tim was linesiding again. Thereafter the dates become a bit jumbled - as do locations. Strips of 35mm negatives were scanned as they came out of their folders in which they were stored in no particular order leading to quite a mixed bunch to follow. But variety is the spice of life, is it not? This matters not to me as I file under loco number, location or date which then refers me back to a specific negative number so searching (as long as I know one of the three) is not an issue. Sequencing can be, though, as we've seen previously.

King 6017 King Edward IV on a down Birmingham train at Old Oak Common on 25th May 1962. This had been at Stafford Road since 1959 and was withdrawn just two months after this photo. (SLS). It was scrapped at the end of May 1963 at Cox & Danks, Oldbury. (Rail UK).



Castle 7031 on the down Cathedrals Express at Old Oak Common on 25th May 1962. We've seen this before in post #1226, coincidentally on the same train but at West Ealing in the following year. Cromwell's Castle was a Worcester engine being withdrawn in July 1963. (SLS). It was scrapped in June 1964 at Cashmore's Newport. (Rail UK).



Now to the WCML and Royal Scot 46147 The Northamptonshire Regiment on the down Northern Irishman at North Wembley on 25th May 1962. We've seen this one previously too, at Bushey Troughs in post #1848. It was at Willesden at the time and had been since March. It was withdrawn in December. (SLS). It then went to Crewe Works where it was scrapped in March 1963. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

This rarely happens but unexpectedly I find myself with half an hour unfiled by the jobs of the day so:

Princess 46209 Princess Beatrice on an up Birmingham train at North Wembley on 25th May 1962. Seen previously in post #1815 46209 was a Camden engine - in fact Camden was it's final shed - and was withdrawn from there only six months later. (SLS). It ended up at Crewe and was scrapped in November. (BR Database).



Another Princess, this time 46208 Princess Helena Victoria reported by Tim to be on a down Oban and Perth Sleeper at North Wembley on 25th May 1962. It had been an Edge Hill engine since 1951 and was withdrawn just five months after this picture was taken. (SLS). It went to Crewe Works and was scrapped in November. (Rail UK).



Looking in fine fettle Princess Coronation 46240 City of Coventry on an up relief train at North Wembley on 25th May 1962. At the time this was a Camden engine (BR Database), moving to Willesden in September 1963 and finally Crewe North in September 1964 where it was withdrawn only a week after arrival. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped in December.



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

Brian
Just a bit of extra data and some variations to confuse,

RCTS

46147 Courier/The Northamtonshire Regiment post war allocations,
Crewe Nth 29/9/45, Edge Hill12/6/48, Upperby 12/3/49, Camden 12/4/52, Holyhead 24/9/55, Longsight 1/9/56, Holyhead 15/9/56, then somewhat weirdly on the 22/6/57 it was allocated to Edge Hill for one day, then returned to Holyhead first on loan and then permanently until 19/10/57 when it was allocated on loan to Upperby until 23/11/57 then back to Holyhead, Edge Hill 14/6/58, Millhouses 31/1/60, Canklow 31/12/61, Willesden 25/2/62, Wdn 1/12/62.
It hardly seems to have spent more than a year in any one place, even pre war it had 10 allocations between 11/27 and 9/45. Actually the whole class seemd to move around a fair bit.

Irwell

46208/9
Both engines were allocated from building at various times to the southern end of the WCML, Crewe North, Edge Hill, Longsight, Camden. 46208 had three weeks holiday at Upperby in August 1960.
46240
Crewe North 27/3/40, Camden 13/4/40, Willesden 7/9/63, Crewe North 29/8/64, Wdn 12/9/64. Cut up J.Cashmore Great Bridge 3/65.

Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Oh joy! A bit of GWR, then to the Southern with a few EMUs in the background. I told you this set would jump around a bit.

47XX 2-8-0 4703 on a down fitted freight at Old Oak Common on 8th May 1962. Living proof (actually, as we've seen previously) that to call the 47XXs "Night Owls" is entirely erroneous. In fact, as far as I'm concerned it offends! Anyway, it has appeared previously in the depot yard at Old Ok in post #2384. 4703 had been at St Philips Marsh until October 1962 when it moved to Southall, thence to Old Oak in November. It was withdrawn in June 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at A King & Sons, Norwich, by the end of July. (Rail UK).



Rebuilt West Country 34009 Lyme Regis on a down Bournemouth train at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962. It was a Nine Elms engine at the time, moving to Eastleigh in September 1964 and then back to Nine Elms in June 1966 where it was withdrawn in October. (SLS). It then went to Buttigiegs, Newport where it was scrapped in November 1967. (Rail UK).



H16 4-6-2T 30520 reportedly on a down freight at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962, except that later photos show it involved in shunting the yard. There are also EMUs as part of the composition which doubtless someone will identify for us. There's another shot of this at Eastleigh in post #324. 30520 had been a resident of Feltham since May 1961 and was withdrawn in November 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Eastleigh Works at the end of October 1963. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[46240]

This rarely happens but unexpectedly I find myself with half an hour unfiled by the jobs of the day so:

Princess 46209 Princess Beatrice on an up Birmingham train at North Wembley on 25th May 1962. Seen previously in post #1815 46209 was a Camden engine - in fact Camden was it's final shed - and was withdrawn from there only six months later. (SLS). It ended up at Crewe and was scrapped in November. (BR Database).

View attachment 197750

Another Princess, this time 46208 Princess Helena Victoria reported by Tim to be on a down Oban and Perth Sleeper at North Wembley on 25th May 1962. It had been an Edge Hill engine since 1951 and was withdrawn just five months after this picture was taken. (SLS). It went to Crewe Works and was scrapped in November. (Rail UK).

View attachment 197748

Looking in fine fettle Princess Coronation 46240 City of Coventry on an up relief train at North Wembley on 25th May 1962. At the time this was a Camden engine (BR Database), moving to Willesden in September 1963 and finally Crewe North in September 1964 where it was withdrawn only a week after arrival. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped in December.

View attachment 197749

Brian

Hello Brian,

Fantastic to see the photo of City of Coventry, being both the city of my birth and my nom de plume on this forum.

I am new to WT, so am unaware if 46240 has featured before.

Anyway, good to see it here.

Cheers, Nigel.

 

[AJC]

Oh joy! A bit of GWR, then to the Southern with a few EMUs in the background. I told you this set would jump around a bit.

47XX 2-8-0 4703 on a down fitted freight at Old Oak Common on 8th May 1962. Living proof (actually, as we've seen previously) that to call the 47XXs "Night Owls" is entirely erroneous. In fact, as far as I'm concerned it offends! Anyway, it has appeared previously in the depot yard at Old Ok in post #2384. 4703 had been at St Philips Marsh until October 1962 when it moved to Southall, thence to Old Oak in November. It was withdrawn in June 1964. (SLS). It was scrapped at A King & Sons, Norwich, by the end of July. (Rail UK).

View attachment 197832

Rebuilt West Country 34009 Lyme Regis on a down Bournemouth train at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962. It was a Nine Elms engine at the time, moving to Eastleigh in September 1964 and then back to Nine Elms in June 1966 where it was withdrawn in October. (SLS). It then went to Buttigiegs, Newport where it was scrapped in November 1967. (Rail UK).

View attachment 197833

H16 4-6-2T 30520 reportedly on a down freight at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962, except that later photos show it involved in shunting the yard. There are also EMUs as part of the composition which doubtless someone will identify for us. There's another shot of this at Eastleigh in post #324. 30520 had been a resident of Feltham since May 1961 and was withdrawn in November 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped at Eastleigh Works at the end of October 1963. (Rail UK).

View attachment 197834

Brian

Lovely shots of Wimbledon. The EMUs are a 4 SUB (barely visible), a Bulleid pattern 4EPB with a 17 headcode (which must be Horsham via Motspur Park: Southern Region Headcodes). The H16 is working a fitted freight which is presumably going in roughly the same sort of direction: SR Steam Locomotive Headsignals.

Adam

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Lovely shots of Wimbledon. The EMUs are a 4 SUB (barely visible), a Bulleid pattern 4EPB with a 17 headcode (which must be Horsham via Motspur Park: Southern Region Headcodes).

Being at Wimbledon the route 17 would have started from the lower platform numbered 'Surbiton Lines' (SE) side of Waterloo. The other route 17 was via the Brentford loop and Staines to Weybridge and would have started from the higher platform numbered 'Windsor Lines' (NW) side of Waterloo.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

For the uninitiated it's the cab windows which differentiate the two SR EMUs. The 4-SUB will be 1946 SR built and the 4-EPB 1951 BR built to a Bulleid design as noted by @AJC .

I remember travelling in the latter from Waterloo to Hampton Court in my younger days.

 

[oldravendale]

Nigel - there are no more photos of 46240 on this thread so far but if you want to search for any specific loco on this thread input the loco number as the subject and oldravendale as the member and all the relevant photos will pop up as if by magic. Delighted you like the one of Coventry.

Adam and Dave. Once again I'm in your debt. I'll add the details to the relevant notes.

Somewhat unusually the Southern remains the subjects for today.

Merchant Navy 35025 Brocklebank Line on a down Exeter train at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962. This was an Exmouth Junction engine being withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It went to Barry and has been under restoration since then - see 35025 Brocklebank Line



West Country 34006 Bude on an up Bournemouth train at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962. This was previously in post #2013. 34006 was a Nine Elms loco at the time of the photo moving to Salisbury in September 1964 where it was withdrawn in March 1967. (SLS). It was scrapped in September or October 1967 at Cashmore's Newport. (BR Database/RailUK) Note 30520 as seen previously shunting in the background.



Standard Class 4 4-6-0 75076 on an up Basingstoke train at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962. The SLS reports the loco as being on the LM Region from February 1957 and moving to Nine Elms in April 1963 but I can find no evidence in contemporary Locoshed Books of it ever being allocated to any LM shed. In fact during this period it's shown as a 70D, Basingstoke loco, moving to Nine Elms in April 1963 (as reported by the SLS) and finally Eastleigh in June 1965 where it was withdrawn on the last day of Southern steam in July 1967. It then went to Birds at Risca where it was scrapped in December (BR Database). Nice (if you like that sort of thing) EMU alongside!



Brian

 

[Martin Shaw]

The RCTS would agree with you re 75076, Exmouth Junc 12/55, Basingstoke 6/56, Nine Elms 3/63, Eastleigh 5/65, Wdn 7/67.
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for the confirmation regarding those dates, Martin. I suspect the "transfer to the LMS" relates to another loco where the numbers have been misread.

Jubilee 45601 British Guiana on a down fitted van train at North Wembley on 23rd May 1962. It had been a Newton Heath engine since 1950 and was withdrawn in September 1964. (SLS). It met it's end at Central Wagon Co, Ince, Wigan at the very end of the year. (Rail UK).



A4 60018 Sparrow Hawk at rest at Kings Cross on 24th May 1962 with, as I remember so well, another A4 in the adjacent platform. 60018 had been a Gateshead engine since 1945 and was wthdrawn from there in June 1963. It was scrapped at Doncaster in July. (BR Database).



Hall 5965 Woolas Hall on a down Didcot and Oxford train at Old Oak Common on 25th May 1962. By now it was a Tyseley engine and was withdrawn two months after this photo. (SLS). It went to Cashmore's Great Bridge where it was scrapped in September. (BR Database).

EDIT: Not 5965 but 5963, Wimpole Hall, but still at Old Oak Common on 25th May 1962. It had been a Westbury engine for a long while, since 1956 at the time of the photo, moving to St Phillips Marsh in February 1963 and withdrawn from there in June 1964. (SLS). It went to Birds, Risca, Newport where it was scrapped by the end of the year. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Standard Class 4 4-6-0 75076 on an up Basingstoke train at Wimbledon on 9th May 1962. The SLS reports the loco as being on the LM Region from February 1957 and moving to Nine Elms in April 1963 but I can find no evidence in contemporary Locoshed Books of it ever being allocated to any LM shed. In fact during this period it's shown as a 70D, Basingstoke loco, moving to Nine Elms in April 1963 (as reported by the SLS) and finally Eastleigh in June 1965 where it was withdrawn on the last day of Southern steam in July 1967. It then went to Birds at Risca where it was scrapped in December (BR Database). Nice (if you like that sort of thing) EMU alongside!

The EMU is a SR built 4-SUB on what looks to be route 19 Waterloo-Worcester Park-Epsom or Leatherhead.

The 4-SUB identifying front end features are the squarer cab windows, external stencil plate route number boxes, lack of Pullman buffing plate and higher gutter line about a third of the way up the roof i.e. no easily observable roof line/cant rail. Whereas a 1951 built Bulleid design 4-EPB has taller cab windows, internal roller blind route number boxes, Pullman buffing plate and a standard roof line at cant rail level.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Dave. That's just the info I need.

Castle 5082 Swordfish on an up express at Old Oak Common on 25th May 1962. It had lived at Old Oak since November 1952 and was withdrawn in July 1962. (SLS). It was scrapped in December at Cahmore's, Newport.



Another Castle 7035 Ogmore Castle on the down Cheltenham Spa Express at Old Oak Common on 25th May 1962. This has been seen before on the Cheltenham Spa Express in post #1821. 7035 was a Gloucester Horton Road engine at the time, then to Oxford in November and then Old Oak in March 1963 where it was withdrawn in June 1964. (SLS). It went to Swindon Works for disposal which was complete by August 1965. (BR Database).



A general view of Old Oak Common with an unidentified King on an up fast train approaching and a Castle in the opposite direction on 25th May 1962.



A2/3 60514 Chamossaire on the 6.17pm Peterborough train at Kings Cross on 10th May 1962. It was a New England engine, withdrawn at the end of December (SLS). It was scrapped at Doncaster Works in June 1963. (Rail UK).



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

A1 60121 Silurian light engine backing out of Kings Cross on 10th May 1962. This had been a York North engine since delivered new in 1948 and was withdrawn in October 1965. (SLS). It was scrapped at T W Ward Killamarsh at the end of November. (Rail UK).



A nice series of V2 60902 looking immaculate, firstly backing on to it's train and then at the head of the 6.50 Cleethorpes train at Kings Cross on 10th May 1962. It was a Kings Cross engine at the time confirmed by the 34A shed plate, moving to New England in January 1963 and then Doncaster in June where it was withdrawn in September. (SLS). It was scrapped in Doncaster Works in November. (BR Database).








This is a fascinating and unexpected photo taken at Kings Cross on 10th May 1962 of two calves carefully wrapped in sacking in a crate. I've never seen such a photo at any of the London (or even provincial) stations. Whether they'd just arrived, were in transit or on their way out of London we'll never know, but this adds another aspect to the common carrier responsibilities of the railways at the time. I was personally unaware of any livestock passing through the London terminal stations at the time as there were large goods yards usually adjacent to the stations. Perhaps these calves were considered too fragile to be carried on a general goods train and traveled by passenger train. Certainly passenger trains were used for the carriage of urgent freight as I remember from my first job, having to get consignments to the local station for carriage, but those were small packages by comparison.

Note also the lovely and ornate drinking water fountain to the left.

What an interesting subject to add to a model passenger platform when all the gainsayers will say, of course, "well, that didn't happen"....



Princess Coronation 46229 Duchess of Hamilton recorded as on the down Merseyside at Willesden Junction on 8th May 1962. Although shown elsewhere in this thread as preserved we have to go back to post #228 for the last image of the loco in service. At the time of this photo it was an Edge Hill loco and was withdrawn in February 1964. Its history thereafter is well documented elsewhere.



Brian