The Heybridge Railway, 1889 to 1913

[RichardG]

Dave I thank you for such a thoughtful post. You have identified most of my stumbling blocks and I am beginning to think, I am going to eventually need some kind of programmer.

By way of example, a few years ago I bought a Hornby FLIRT. This beast uses two decoders and I used Coastal DCC to supply me with a pair of LokPilot decoders which they kindly set up for me free of charge. I just had to plug them into the train. This afternoon, I thought about re-using these two decoders in my last two 7mm locos. Well, to cut a long story short, their CV values have been written in such a way as to represent the default values. Trying a reset via CV8 achieves nothing and the only way I can restore these decoders to ESU's factory settings is to take a decoder programmer and a virgin LokPilot; read the entire configuration of this decoder; and write the file back to each of the two FLIRT decoders. This is a perfect example of how DCC keeps on catching me out, and why I repeatedly find it so difficult. It is almost as though me and DCC were never meant to come together, though I have now forced the issue with my Heybridge Railway!

I am now looking at two dormant-but-not-forgotten H0 locos which each carry a LokPilot4 with a MTC21 connector. Supposing I swap these for budget decoders (I have a Lais on order to try) then they can go into the last two 7 mm models. ESU will start to dominate my 7mm models. If I find myself needing (as opposed to wanting) a programmer for them, the decision becomes easier.

 

[Bob Essex]

Richard,

I have used a Sprog2 with JMRI/Decoder Pro to set up my locos since about 2010 and find it invaluable. JMRI is open source so is free and regularly updated by volunteers to keep pace with the latest decoders to arrive. It has definitions for almost every decoder made, past and present. The Sprog family are not just programmers (there is a wide range now) but can be used as full stand-alone DCC systems and both they and JMRI can work with many O/S, Windows/Mac/Linix, etc. While you can program each individual cv if you wish the advantage of Decoder Pro is that it uses a graphical interface with decoder definitions featuring drop-down tabs with cv's grouped in such as: motor control, sounds, and so forth. There is no need to know the cv's concerned. DP generates a 'roster' so all locos details can be entered and stored for re-call at any time.

Bob

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

By way of example, a few years ago I bought a Hornby FLIRT. This beast uses two decoders and I used Coastal DCC to supply me with a pair of LokPilot decoders which they kindly set up for me free of charge. I just had to plug them into the train. This afternoon, I thought about re-using these two decoders in my last two 7mm locos. Well, to cut a long story short, their CV values have been written in such a way as to represent the default values. Trying a reset via CV8 achieves nothing and the only way I can restore these decoders to ESU's factory settings is to take a decoder programmer and a virgin LokPilot; read the entire configuration of this decoder; and write the file back to each of the two FLIRT decoders. This is a perfect example of how DCC keeps on catching me out, and why I repeatedly find it so difficult. It is almost as though me and DCC were never meant to come together, though I have now forced the issue with my Heybridge Railway!

The decoders have been consisted as the Flirt has two drive bogies. Took me ages to find this out as there is no service sheet on the Hornby website.

I assume there is a Lokpilot in each drive car and I would reset the decoders separately. If programming on the main then you have to switch the track power off and back on after entering CV8=8. For each drive car I would set CV19=0 (or 128) which disables the consisting then CV8=8.

btw - the decoder default settings are in the Lokpilot 5 manual - page 20, CV table, end column. ESU - Electronic Solutions Ulm GmbH & Co. KG: Digital decoders

 

[RichardG]

The decoders have been consisted as the Flirt has two drive bogies.

The two decoders might have been consisted, but haven't been. They both have CV19=0.

I can change CV19 to another value, I used 128. I can see that this new setting has been accepted. When I apply CV8=8 to do a factory reset, the value of CV19 changes to 0, but the value of other CVs (for example, CV29) remain resolutely unchanged. As I say, the person who programmed the decoders has done it in such a way as to make their own values the new default values. If there were a dozen CVs I could work through them one by one, but there are hundreds. The task is monumental without a programmer able to re-write every CV with the factory value in one go.

I'd best go back to Coastal DCC and see if they can overwrite the unwanted default values with the usual factory defaults.
I'd best leave the FLIRT alone, enjoy the pretty lights and try to salvage one or two of the dormant LokPilot4's.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

As I say, the person who programmed the decoders has done it in such a way as to make their own values the new default values.

I suspect what they have done is lock the decoders using CVs 15 and 16 to prevent accidental resetting as each decoder is likely to have different values in the lighting functions and in CV29 (forward/reverse). I can see why they have done this as if they were unlocked and you reset them while the whole train is on the track the decoders will both drive cab forward and want to pull apart. If I were able to read CV29 I would expect to see one at the default value and one with the default value + 1 (reverse direct of travel to ensure both drive bogies move in the same direction).

Sound decoders are generally locked to protect the developers intellectual rights - except for the free sound files you can download.

To unlock a decoder CV15=CV16. You could always try CV15=0 then CV8=8 to see if this works. Otherwise you're onto the long haul by keying 1 to 255 into CV15 to try and find the match for CV16.

Or on the other hand leave well alone as you've concluded.

 

[Rob R]

I suspect what they have done is lock the decoders using CVs 15 and 16 to prevent accidental resetting as each decoder is likely to have different values in the lighting functions and in CV29 (forward/reverse). I can see why they have done this as if they were unlocked and you reset them while the whole train is on the track the decoders will both drive cab forward and want to pull apart. If I were able to read CV29 I would expect to see one at the default value and one with the default value + 1 (reverse direct of travel to ensure both drive bogies move in the same direction).

Sound decoders are generally locked to protect the developers intellectual rights - except for the free sound files you can download.

To unlock a decoder CV15=CV16. You could always try CV15=0 then CV8=8 to see if this works. Otherwise you're onto the long haul by keying 1 to 255 into CV15 to try and find the match for CV16.

Or on the other hand leave well alone as you've concluded.

Being a bear of little brain, could you not just reverse one set of motor leads?
Or is that too easy?

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Being a bear of little brain, could you not just reverse one set of motor leads?
Or is that too easy?

That would be the logical solution but I have no way of telling how Hornby wired the driving cars. As I can see they are essentially the same vehicle except one is turned around. If they are wried identically then when placed on the track you would expect them either to move apart or come together when the power is turned on. There could be something in their circuit board to change the direction of one car or they could be wired correctly for analogue operation. It could be that installing a decoder affects the circuitry meaning the decoder has to be programmed to recognise this. I just don't know - but could experiment as I have a 3-SUB with a drive bogie at either end - and two ESU Lokpilots on a shelf somewhere .

Looking at the Flirt family of multiple units I don't understand why Hornby didn't design the drive to fit in the in the drive unit like the prototype and treat it like a Bo-Bo. Instead they used two drive bogies.