Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
The irony went completely over my head. It's probably a good thing I mentioned weakening the assembly because I could have started to file away the little slots 
The Heybridge Railway, 1889 to 1913
- Thread starter Richard Gawler
- Start date
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I now know, the reverser lever is the proper length and the model crew can reach it below the new weatherboard. So I am looking for extra width for the quadrant.
Maybe the broad strip around the back of the firebox represents the lagging. The strip is 2.4 mm wide, so about 4 inches in 7 mm scale.
Would it sound reasonable to cut back the side (representing the cladding) here, over the whole area below the dotted line, and to the depth of the broad strip I have marked in solid red? Then I could add a new "unlagged firebox side" set about 2 mm inboard of the present cladding and attach the quadrant casting to this.
Phil O
Western Thunderer
Richard,
The area that you have marked in red would be the lagging.
A further thought would be that the quadrant would be bolted to the top of the frame, it certainly wouldn't be bolted to the firebox, that moves with expansion. Perhaps your idea that the bunker is cosmetic may be correct. It's been a long time since I was last on a footplate I think that the reversing rod runs inside the frame. In the picture on the previous page, is that the reversing rod running diagonally across the tank side?
The area that you have marked in red would be the lagging.
A further thought would be that the quadrant would be bolted to the top of the frame, it certainly wouldn't be bolted to the firebox, that moves with expansion. Perhaps your idea that the bunker is cosmetic may be correct. It's been a long time since I was last on a footplate I think that the reversing rod runs inside the frame. In the picture on the previous page, is that the reversing rod running diagonally across the tank side?
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
MW883 carries a piece of board or similar over its right hand bunker and the reversing handle is nowhere to be seen. I don't know what the diagonal rods are and it would be unwise to guess. Perhaps this loco is left hand drive?
I am intending to fit a reverser reach rod like this one on Allen's model. This reach rod is provided in the kit.
Hope this helps
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
Yes Phil I agree.
I need to find 1.5 mm of additional width to install the quadrant and keep the bunker.
I could cut away the cladding as I have marked here in red, and then add a "recessed panel of brass" to hold the quadrant. This panel would be invisible (because the bunker is outside it here) but this could create the illusion of the cladding and lagging being cut away, and the quadrant supported in its correct place. The fact that the quadrant is mounted onto a false side of the firebox and not the frames would not be noticeable.
Then again, it might be simpler to omit the quadrant altogether. If I can squeeze it in, it will be all but invisible.
Rob R
Western Thunderer
Richard,
If you have the Smithers book on EBWilson and MW go to page 115 which shows the angle of the reach rod and that it goes behind the rear spring. On p 119 there is a ga which shows that the quadrant assy is quite thin, and that the reach rod angles in towards the centre of the loco as the crank it operates is inside the frames. I'll take a closer look at mine tomorrow and take a piccie or two.
If you have the Smithers book on EBWilson and MW go to page 115 which shows the angle of the reach rod and that it goes behind the rear spring. On p 119 there is a ga which shows that the quadrant assy is quite thin, and that the reach rod angles in towards the centre of the loco as the crank it operates is inside the frames. I'll take a closer look at mine tomorrow and take a piccie or two.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
I have just realised why you are having so many problems fitting that reversing lever: I am afraid that the kit casting is gross (in every respect!)
It not only looks like nothing that would ever have been allowed to leave the Manning Wardle factory - but it is significantly over thick as well.
On copies of MW drawings that I have seen, the quadrant was bolted to a plate on the firebox side - and the original lever was a gracefully slender affair, that being so very much shallower than that horrible, lumpy casting, would still fit nicely between the cladding and bunker - complete with all attached fittings - even if your gap is a bit narrower than on the prototype!
Sorry to be a pain?
Pete.
It not only looks like nothing that would ever have been allowed to leave the Manning Wardle factory - but it is significantly over thick as well.
On copies of MW drawings that I have seen, the quadrant was bolted to a plate on the firebox side - and the original lever was a gracefully slender affair, that being so very much shallower than that horrible, lumpy casting, would still fit nicely between the cladding and bunker - complete with all attached fittings - even if your gap is a bit narrower than on the prototype!
Sorry to be a pain?
Pete.
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
The casting for the lever is a bit on the chunky side but only the top 8 mm sticks out above the bunker. Peter I suggest I take it to your own "finescale" layout, you put it on top of the rails for a few circults and then I can file the profile back to shape
The GA on page 119 of the Smithers book is reproduced at a scale of around 7.4 mm / foot. I can see, the quadrant is drawn much finer than the casting provided in the kit.
The elevation of WT no.7 on page 115 of the Smithers book shows the reach rod for the reverser and where it disappears inside the frames. My loco, like Allen's, will have a sandbox here which is convenient.
So: I can try to fettle the casting for the lever; omit the quadrant; get a better fit on the safety valve cover; and attach the new weatherboard. I have an inkling of an idea to use the lever (which is, after all, quite a robust casting) to operate an on/off switch for the battery. This would justify its existence! I can have a think about this too.
The GA on page 119 of the Smithers book is reproduced at a scale of around 7.4 mm / foot. I can see, the quadrant is drawn much finer than the casting provided in the kit.
The elevation of WT no.7 on page 115 of the Smithers book shows the reach rod for the reverser and where it disappears inside the frames. My loco, like Allen's, will have a sandbox here which is convenient.
So: I can try to fettle the casting for the lever; omit the quadrant; get a better fit on the safety valve cover; and attach the new weatherboard. I have an inkling of an idea to use the lever (which is, after all, quite a robust casting) to operate an on/off switch for the battery. This would justify its existence! I can have a think about this too.
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Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Ha ha! Richard, the only problem with that is the casting would more than likely leave a peculiar, and rather unlikely looking reversing rod impression on the top of our rails! 
As you might guess; I do really like the idea of re purposing the lever though!
Pete.
As you might guess; I do really like the idea of re purposing the lever though!
Pete.
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I have done some new work and some rework . . .
The new lever underway. This is scrap fret, I "made" the ratchet release and the handle by cutting into the end with tin snips before adding a bit of shape with files.
A piece of small bore brass tube in the side of the boiler to hold the pivot for the lever.
Yes, and this has worked. I filed away most of the mounting brackets on the back of the quadrant. Then I cut through each end with a razor saw, one end at a time, and soldered them back together. The saw blade took out a useful amount of metal. My soldering looks better in later photos.
The pivot is a 16BA screw with a nut soldered on behind. The rest of the screw can be glued into the tube later.
This has used up one of my precious 16BA nuts. I understand they aren't made any more because the 1/16 inch hex bar isn't made either, but I can keep my stock and look at them; or use them.
The whole lever and quadrant assembly is now 1.8 mm thick and so it goes into the 2.3 mm gap. And, I will be able to see the quadrant on the finished model.
I have had a go at the flare at the bottom of the safety valve cover too. I bored the casting 2.2 mm and tapped it 6BA at the bottom. So the cover is fixed from underneath with a 6BA screw and it can come off for polishing. If I can't find some kind of suitable lacquer.
The lever for the reverser is trapped inside the quadrant. I have to unsolder one end of the quadrant to release it and put it back in. So I am thinking, maybe I should make the lever a permanent fixture now, instead of waiting until after painting? I am not sure.
The new lever underway. This is scrap fret, I "made" the ratchet release and the handle by cutting into the end with tin snips before adding a bit of shape with files.
A piece of small bore brass tube in the side of the boiler to hold the pivot for the lever.Yes, and this has worked. I filed away most of the mounting brackets on the back of the quadrant. Then I cut through each end with a razor saw, one end at a time, and soldered them back together. The saw blade took out a useful amount of metal. My soldering looks better in later photos.
The pivot is a 16BA screw with a nut soldered on behind. The rest of the screw can be glued into the tube later.
This has used up one of my precious 16BA nuts. I understand they aren't made any more because the 1/16 inch hex bar isn't made either, but I can keep my stock and look at them; or use them.
The whole lever and quadrant assembly is now 1.8 mm thick and so it goes into the 2.3 mm gap. And, I will be able to see the quadrant on the finished model.I have had a go at the flare at the bottom of the safety valve cover too. I bored the casting 2.2 mm and tapped it 6BA at the bottom. So the cover is fixed from underneath with a 6BA screw and it can come off for polishing. If I can't find some kind of suitable lacquer.
The lever for the reverser is trapped inside the quadrant. I have to unsolder one end of the quadrant to release it and put it back in. So I am thinking, maybe I should make the lever a permanent fixture now, instead of waiting until after painting? I am not sure.
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spikey faz
Western Thunderer
Hi Richard
Unles you need to stick with imperial-sized fittings, Prime Miniatures do a range of diddly metric-sized nuts 'n bolts. I've been using these as I've also had trouble sourcing 16ba fittings.
Mike
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I used some M0,8 nuts from Prime Miniatures on my Y14, but in cosmetic roles. These being soldered onto the buffer stocks.
I put a mixture of metric and BA on "Nellie" and regretted this because the loose screws look so similar. I could spend a while on the Amberly web site, they do other useful bits and pieces for model making.
I put a mixture of metric and BA on "Nellie" and regretted this because the loose screws look so similar. I could spend a while on the Amberly web site, they do other useful bits and pieces for model making.
Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I am glad I tackled the reverser and its quadrant before the other firebox fittings. These have been more straightforward, but I continue to struggle with the kit instructions. Some clauses only seem to make sense if you already know what you are supposed to do, and I ended up doing the pressure gauge twice.
I originally added the gauge with its feed pipe like this (wrong).
Then I looked back at one of Rob's photos (quoted above) and re-did the feed pipe the correct way. It needs to dog-leg its way through a hole in the weatherboard.
I have put a short length of tube into the firebox to let me glue the whistle into place after painting. This hole in the weatherboard came with the etch and is to add a handle for the whistle, so this sets the location of the tube.
The regulator lever here is posed for the photos. It isn't intended to be a moving part, I will glue it into the regulator gland after painting.
Thanks also to Tony (@Osgood) for confirming the correct orientation of the sight glasses a few days before Rob posted his photo.
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Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
I think this account would benefit from a view of the "big picture" so here goes.
This is the state of the build today. I want to think everything here is done and good to go, though the loose spring needs to go back.
Thinking about the learning curve for kits, and especially my place on this curve at the moment, I can see four "grades" of parts in this build:
(A) Parts which actually fit;
(B) Parts which need modification to be able to use them;
(C) Parts which need to be discarded and replaced by new parts, either bought-in or home-made;
(D) Parts which were never included in the first place and also need to be bought or made.
Where I am really struggling is distinguishing between grades (B) and (C). A sensible decision will be based on technical correctness, ease of installation, essential rework and a personal judgement of how good the model should be, but clearly the decision has to be made because few writers of kit instructions are going to tell you to discard a part and provide your own.
My present challenge is the Salter safety valves. I have spent 3+ hours with the castings, getting more and more frustrated at each step. I have finally realised life would be easier if I began from scratch with some bits of tube and wire; so I can try for this next.
This is the state of the build today. I want to think everything here is done and good to go, though the loose spring needs to go back.
Thinking about the learning curve for kits, and especially my place on this curve at the moment, I can see four "grades" of parts in this build:
(A) Parts which actually fit;
(B) Parts which need modification to be able to use them;
(C) Parts which need to be discarded and replaced by new parts, either bought-in or home-made;
(D) Parts which were never included in the first place and also need to be bought or made.
Where I am really struggling is distinguishing between grades (B) and (C). A sensible decision will be based on technical correctness, ease of installation, essential rework and a personal judgement of how good the model should be, but clearly the decision has to be made because few writers of kit instructions are going to tell you to discard a part and provide your own.
My present challenge is the Salter safety valves. I have spent 3+ hours with the castings, getting more and more frustrated at each step. I have finally realised life would be easier if I began from scratch with some bits of tube and wire; so I can try for this next.
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Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
Here are the fittings for the Salter safety valves, placed loosely for the camera. I don't know anything about these safety valves but somehow these parts just look wrong - too short and the flanges at the ends of the columns don't correlate to photographs.
I don't have a suitable photo of the arrangement on a class F either, so I have made this up. The columns are brass tube placed over L-shaped bits of wire secured into holes in the backhead, and the levers are the castings from the kit. I think this looks better, although it may still be wrong.
I never expected the firebox to take quite so long to build nor quite so many posts, but it is finished. The whistle and the regulator handle will go on after painting.
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Richard Gawler
Western Thunderer
You've blown my cover! This was the only useful photo I could find online, and it shows a Hunslet not a MW . . . but the general arrangement was surely similar