The Heybridge Railway, 1889 to 1913

[Richard Gawler]

I have seen the wire from a pc mouse used for plungers, very flexible and usually free (well you could buy a new mouse just to chop the wire off but that is a bit drastic!).

Interesting. I suppose you could double it up to get a bit more current-carrying capacity.

 

[Simon]

Thank you Paul, Fraser and Simon. I do like the idea of insulting sleeves, in fact these pickups seem like an insult at the moment but I have got to persevere.

This is where I am at the moment . . .

1) I could not work out how to get the two 12 BA brass nuts to lock onto the solder tag. I solved this by pulling the plunger fully out against its spring, slipping on surgical forceps as a heat shunt and soldering the nuts together and to the tag and the back of the plunger. This assembly is now impossible to undo without destroying the plastic plunger mount.

2) I could not work out whether the first nut is supposed to go on all the way to the end of the thread, or just far enough to get a full thread in the second nut. This alters the pre-load on the spring. I settled for threading on as little as possible so I could get the heat shunt on.

3) The springs seem very weak for the task in hand.

4) The plungers operate freely when I hold them in my hand but not when installed in the chassis - this suggests the electrical wire is too stiff and is interfering with operation. I am using 7/0.2.

5) I have installed and removed the plungers twice. I secured them with Araldite on both occasions (this is advised in the kit instructions), but the Araldite does not stick to the paint on the chassis nor to the plastic housings and really it only creates a sort of a moulded base to stop the plunger base from leaning crooked.

6) I have read the detailed instructions for the Slater's plunger pickups linked by Paul, but too late to be able to inspect the plunger housings and decide whether to clear them out with a drill bit.

7) I have already put some tiny drops of oil on the pickups, this is a lubricant sold for model railway use as safe for use on plastics.

So . . .

As Simon suggests, I think I have got to try some thinner wire. I will have to buy something . . . please, what size of wire do people usually choose for use with these pickups? Perhaps 7/0.1?

Also, do we know whether the first nut has to go all the way down the thread or is its location optional? Then I will know whether I have got to buy another set of plunger pickups. They seem terribly expensive for what they are.

Many thanks!

Hi Richard, I'm sure I've got something suitable, if you pm me your address I'll put some in the post to you.

Simon

 

[Chas Levin]

Reading with sympathy and interest Richard, as I've not yet tried plunger pickups and they're a bit marmite, some swear by, others avoid.

Love the mental picture of insulting sleeves though...

 

[Richard Gawler]

I have a working chassis.



There are no tight spots. I had one minor one before and I straightened up three of the four crankpins (very slightly!) while the chassis was in bits. So no adjustments to the holes in the side rods. The crank pin bushes are now about 0.4 mm thicker than the side rods, I filed them down a bit more before today's rebuild.


The plunger pickups are sitting crooked. I want to find something to hold them straight but all four seem to be working even like this; the chassis runs both ways over my Setrack point.


Electrically, I have got the orange and grey wires the wrong way round on the motor.
Physically, the grey wire is best at the bottom because it is visible under the boiler.
Black "Gorilla" tape is the only product I possess which sticks to wire insulation but even this is already peeling off the matt black paint (middle photo).

The model will look better with its body in place but today is the day of the chassis.

@Chas Levin I will write something about plunger pickups when I have come down off my cloud.

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Richard,

I never got on with the Slaters plungers, they are a bit obvious and also a bit difficult to set up. Either too stiff or sticky and if you need a bit of sideplay on longer locos they can loose contact as the wheelset moves.

My ‘toilet roll holder’ solution, made from stock tube and wire so very cheap, is described on this thread,

Simple loco to fill a space!

I have been a WT member for a while now and have enjoyed the many and varied threads, contributed a little, learned a lot of useful tricks and picked up some new techniques. Over Christmas I have been building a little simple loco to fill in the time between painting my last project, slow job...

westernthunder.co.uk

Ian.

 

[simond]

I use a similar design, which I developed from sketches kindly provided by the late David LO Smith. I tried to find the pictures this morning but they were lost in the great RMWeb server disaster.

(ok, ”disaster” is a bit strong, but it’s more polite than the words that spring to mind!)

if i can repost, I will.

 

[Richard Gawler]

Reading with sympathy and interest Richard, as I've not yet tried plunger pickups and they're a bit marmite, some swear by, others avoid.

Love the mental picture of insulting sleeves though...

I never got on with the Slaters plungers, they are a bit obvious and also a bit difficult to set up. Either too stiff or sticky and if you need a bit of sideplay on longer locos they can loose contact as the wheelset moves.

My ‘toilet roll holder’ solution, made from stock tube and wire so very cheap, is described on this thread,

Simple loco to fill a space!

I have been a WT member for a while now and have enjoyed the many and varied threads, contributed a little, learned a lot of useful tricks and picked up some new techniques. Over Christmas I have been building a little simple loco to fill in the time between painting my last project, slow job...

westernthunder.co.uk

. . .
(ok, ”disaster” is a bit strong, but it’s more polite than the words that spring to mind!)

Like Simon I get stuck for vocabulary from time to time. I will simply say, I cannot imagine myself ever buying the same plunger pickups again. I will be building some like Ian's design. In fact, if I decide to try adding pickups to the carrying wheels of Nellie then I would want to begin with a broad and slender U shape of brass, to be soldered onto the bottom of the axle tube to hold a pair of them.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Richard,

It's probably no help but I was in exactly the same mind as you after fitting my first set of Slaters Plunger pickups in my J63 back in 2012 but it turned into my best running loco, so I revised my opinion and have fitted several sets since but I always clear the inside and make sure that they are free to plunge in and out without snatching.

I am just about to (tomorrow) wire up the plungers in the tender of the J6 that am building so I will take some photos of how I do it.

 

[Richard Gawler]

I want to devise a plunger pickup where the plunger slides in a conductive tube (probably brass) and the electrical connection goes to the tube not the plunger. This would allow the use of thicker wire able to withstand a fault current.

If the kit had 4 mm diameter holes in the frames for Slater's pickups then I would look to starting with some Slater's 1/8 inch axle bushes, the outside diameter of these is a neat fit in a 4 mm hole and they neatly take you to imperial sizes as used by K&S and Plastruct.

 

[Chas Levin]

I want to devise a plunger pickup where the plunger slides in a conductive tube (probably brass) and the electrical connection goes to the tube not the plunger. This would allow the use of thicker wire able to withstand a fault current.

If the kit had 4 mm diameter holes in the frames for Slater's pickups then I would look to starting with some Slater's 1/8 inch axle bushes, the outside diameter of these is a neat fit in a 4 mm hole and they neatly take you to imperial sizes as used by K&S and Plastruct.

Interesting idea Richard, but I can't help wondering whether that might bring other problems from possible intermittent contact between plunger and tube, compounding any contact issues between wheel and plunger?

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

I want to devise a plunger pickup where the plunger slides in a conductive tube (probably brass) and the electrical connection goes to the tube not the plunger. This would allow the use of thicker wire able to withstand a fault current.

If the kit had 4 mm diameter holes in the frames for Slater's pickups then I would look to starting with some Slater's 1/8 inch axle bushes, the outside diameter of these is a neat fit in a 4 mm hole and they neatly take you to imperial sizes as used by K&S and Plastruct.

Richard,

In my example there is an inner brass tube in which the plunger slides, I started doing that once I found that the brass wire inside a plastic tube sometimes stuck. I too thought that the wire soldered to the tube would be a better collection solution but it didn’t work in practice. I think the electrical path wasn’t as reliable as a wire straight to the plunger.

The wire I am using is 7 strand and very flexible and hasn’t been a problem. I sourced it from ‘All Components’ I think, at a show. Current consumption and wires burning out hasn’t been a problem with me. Modern motors don’t need the high currents of the previous ones.

Ian

 

[Richard Gawler]

If I come up with something useful I will share it here. If I make something quite useless I might mention it; and if I end up with mediocrity I will spare everyone. I may well end up building Ian's solution for my next loco project.

 

[Richard Gawler]

A snapshot of 'Nellie' taken just after I got the chassis running on its own pickups. The chimney is sitting loose. To be honest, this ensemble runs really nicely and it's not remotely run in yet. All of the large brass parts are finished except for the cab roof. I can now investigate the bag of castings supplied with the kit, they all look beautifully made.

 

[Richard Gawler]

The castings look good but I think it is prudent to add as many brass parts as I can before I do the castings.


I have made the cab hand rails as simple as I can. I think the hand rails will look best if they are all the same height so this is how I have done them.


Yesterday it dawned on me the whistle cannot go on the cab roof because it will get side-swiped by the crane. So I have drilled out the bottom of the whistle casting and put it onto the front of the cab.


I have had these surgical forceps for ages but never much used them until this project. I think they are worth this photo. They tend to pull a small subject like a wire crooked hence the strip of ply to bring the body of the loco back into line. But they do make a good heat shunt as well as a holding tool and I found myself heating the spectacle plate for longer than I wanted when I soldered the wire into place.

 

[Richard Gawler]

I'm pleased my picture is of use. Bear in mind I mounted the drive wheels/gears the other (wrong?) way round. I just wanted to be different!
View attachment 165738

View attachment 165739
Mike

@spikey faz Mike, do you possibly have a sketch or a photo which shows the arrangement of the two 'handles' on your crane? I want to make these, they didn't come included in the kit for the jib I bought.

 

[spikey faz]

@spikey faz Mike, do you possibly have a sketch or a photo which shows the arrangement of the two 'handles' on your crane? I want to make these, they didn't come included in the kit for the jib I bought.

I've included some pictures below which may be of use.

There's a big old handle sticking out at the back of the jib which I assume operates the forward/reverse gears. Maybe it also acts as a brake?

What appears to be a lever coming out the the top of the jib is (I think) an exhaust for the steam cylinders within the jib. If it was a lever, it's in a pretty precarious place to be safely operated! Happy however to be proved wrong.







Mike

 

[Richard Gawler]

Mike thank you so much this is marvellous.

Well . . . I imagined these cranes were hand-operated. The only controls within reach are the handwheel to rotate the jib, and the long handle. So perhaps there was some kind of reversible ratchet mechanism inside, and operation involved repeated upwards or downwards movements of the long lever. To raise or lower the hook.

Gladiator have provided a hole on each side for the pivot of the long handle so I will make something and fit it onto my model. They haven't provided a hole for the thin pipe on the top. I haven't got a clue what this pipe would be for. It seems to be pointing directly towards the spindle of the large gear and small flywheel. It's a bit peculiar to be an oiling point. I think I will leave this off.

Yesterday I shortened my crane jib to match the overall length on your earlier photo and painted the jib too.


The short bit of brass road at the end is of my own invention but the jib looked a bit odd with the two lobes(?) sitting with free space between them.


I expect it is most improper for the tip of such a jib to be made as a separate part but the better appearance of the whole loco makes up for this for me.


The paint is Halfords "Volvo Dark Grey 228" over U-Pol no.8 primer. This is first time I have put primer and top coat on in the same day, indeed barely two hours apart. The air temperature was around 24 C. The Volvo dark grey is my preferred shade of "black". It will look better when there is a varnish on top to reduce the gloss.

I painted the crane base panel too. A couple of rather large specks of dust got between the two paints so I think the model will be getting some spanners or another oil can glued on here.

 

[Richard Gawler]

I like this site - does it do football results or horse racing too?

 

[Richard Gawler]

I have made a new floor panel for the cab. I was a bit doubtful about the ply one because it had to be a permanent fixture and it would stop me putting the model in Viakal and soapy water. So I have made a new floor from brass.


The brake column is 1/8 inch rod drilled out at the top to take the handle. Tube would have been easier. The embellishment at the bottom is a top hat bush. The reversing lever is from the kit. The soldering iron made a close encounter but it all looks fine in the cab from the usual viewing angles. The small hole is here as a pilot to make it easier to drill through to make a mount for a pony truck if I decide I need one.


With the floor fixed into the loco I have made the rear sand boxes and put these on top, one each side. My soldering gets more and more untidy as the access gets harder. The lid is an M3 cheese head screw with the head filed down to lose the slot.

 

[Richard Gawler]

With the crane shortened and most of the castings glued in the loco is starting to show its character. I think it will end up as quite a pretty engine but not too twee. This is important to me and quite difficult to achieve because the length of the footplate extension had to be decided early on and this decides everything.


The chimney is loose, I am hoping to get a stovepipe chimney to give her more of a 'Stratford' air.