Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Yeah, only Ringo and Paul left........Cool, don't see many of those around these days.
Steph
Col.
Col.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Neither of them have any sense of rhythm...Yeah, only Ringo and Paul left........
Col.
Steph
dibateg
Western Thunderer
I finally got the roof on today, although it needed a mill trimming off each side - it looks better now. I couldn't see how any strength could be put into the springs and hangers as designed. So I separated the 'W' irons from the underframe and attached them to the solebars. Springs and hangers could then be attached with 100 degree solder. I couldn't find any photos of these electrically fitted, so I've stuck with the gas. I ditched the white metal buffers and pipe fittings and fitted NMRS ones. Ragstone pipework to follow.. Just some tidying up and final details now.
dibateg
Western Thunderer
Whilst I'm waiting for parts to arrive, I'm back on the WD for a day or so and starting to make appreciable progress. Heathers Aintree Iron thread has been most useful, at least I know some of the issues to look out for. The boiler was prepared beforehand and I use old drills resharpened to prepare the holes as the resin quickly takes the edge of good drills. All my old drills go in a pot on the workbench, they get used as drifts, punches and all sort of other rough jobs. The boiler is held with self tappers to the cab and the at the front of the firebox, with the smokebox held to the saddle by epoxy. There are the usual wobbly pipe runs and 90437 had the four lubricator pipes running down the fireman's side. Pipe clips are made from thin N/S strip formed around the 'pipe' with the tails glued into a hole drilled in the boiler. The cast vac pipe in the kit seemed hugely overscale, this one is a modified Sans Pareil one.
dibateg
Western Thunderer
I tackled the injectors yesterday. They seemed a bit long for a WD, so it was out with the piercing saw to cut a section out, drill the cuts to take a spigot of .7mm brass wire. Then they were resoldered together. I also filed the mounting pin thinner to bring the whole thing closer to the mounting bracket. Here it is with the spigot showing, before the gap is closed for soldering. You cant see much of this item on the loco, but the pipe fitting need to be in the right place.
I had a trawl through my copper wire store, but could not find any 1.2mm, which I use to represent 2" pipes, it was either 1.1 or 1.3. After some deliberation and fiddling about, I clamped about a metre of 1.3 in the vice and making sure there was nothing behind me gave a good haul on it with a stout pair of pliers. With some effort it will stretch and reduce in diameter.. I spent too much time agonising over the different sizes, anyway job done:-
To make this all work, I had to move the outriggers from the frames to the underside of the cab. The ashpan rod (?) in the kit was to short ( if I used the right part ) so I used some scrap etch. There are still more pipes to add under the cab and some are already attached to the frames and not the body. But the join is difficult to spot eh?
I had a trawl through my copper wire store, but could not find any 1.2mm, which I use to represent 2" pipes, it was either 1.1 or 1.3. After some deliberation and fiddling about, I clamped about a metre of 1.3 in the vice and making sure there was nothing behind me gave a good haul on it with a stout pair of pliers. With some effort it will stretch and reduce in diameter.. I spent too much time agonising over the different sizes, anyway job done:-
To make this all work, I had to move the outriggers from the frames to the underside of the cab. The ashpan rod (?) in the kit was to short ( if I used the right part ) so I used some scrap etch. There are still more pipes to add under the cab and some are already attached to the frames and not the body. But the join is difficult to spot eh?
dibateg
Western Thunderer
I'm on a push now to get the WD finished. Jim Snowdons observation was right, the safety valves shouldn't tower over the dome. So I took them off, and took a big file to the housing to lower it. The problem with the very nice valves in kit are that they include the mounting flange, which actually is below the top of the cover onn the real thing. A rummage in the spares box turned up a pair of Severn model ones. They might do, I shall investigate the Ragstone ones. I had some spare Snow Hill drain pipes, which was very fortunate. I think there needs to be a few more pipes under the cab..
Tender next..
Tender next..
dibateg
Western Thunderer
The tender chassis throws up some interesting challenges. I doubt that the crossbars are WD ones, more like LMS or LNER perhaps, but they will only be seen from the side in any case. I decided to use the bearing flanges as the guides for the equalising beams, by using some till roll between the beam and the frames to give a little clearance. They are held in place by screws in the tapped frames. But that's not good practice to have a bearing surface on a thread, so I might change that. There was a rivet detail strip that goes on the underside of the outrigger etch. I didn't bother with that - it can only be seen from underneath and it was a fold up with the single rivet strip on the sideframe and I think the whole thing is neater without it. Likewise brake detail overlays. Nice - but you can't see the brakes at all when it's the right way up. The crosshaft is in one piece, so I cut it with a piercing saw where it passes through the bearings. The cut ends of the shaft are then drilled to fit a wire spigot to give some strength to the join. There was no where to mount the bearings so brass angle is soldered into that corner - you can just see the edge of it through those forward facing holes. The adjusters are scratched up, it would be nice to have the eye at the end of the adjuster rod, but it's just the wire end, but you didn't spot that! I also drilled out and used wire to represent the bolts in the outriggers. So unnecessary detail left off and some added on. I did put the brake cylinder in though...
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
R A Riddles was a LMS trained engineer.
dibateg
Western Thunderer
Good point Dave - but I can't think of any feature of the WD that's the same as an 8F, I wonder why they didn't use common parts? Down to cost I guess.
As is always the way, I was having a look for something and in the 'Brakes and Axleboxes' drawer I happened to come across a set of crossbars that are a lot more like WD ones - with a bit of modification. The trouble is, that once you know you can put something right, you have to. So the originals were taken out for use another time and here we are - that's better.
I could have filled the bunker right up with coal, but it's possible the tops of the ribs would still need to be there. The positions have to measured out, so rather than use the drawing, I copied the Snow Hill Tender so at least they look the same!
The black smudges are Loctite 480, my superglue of choice. I didn't like the water valves in the kit as the handles were sticking forward as this they are half open, so I scratched these ones up. Just the annoying detail stuff to add now as well as the cab doors, which were a BR era addition.
As is always the way, I was having a look for something and in the 'Brakes and Axleboxes' drawer I happened to come across a set of crossbars that are a lot more like WD ones - with a bit of modification. The trouble is, that once you know you can put something right, you have to. So the originals were taken out for use another time and here we are - that's better.
I could have filled the bunker right up with coal, but it's possible the tops of the ribs would still need to be there. The positions have to measured out, so rather than use the drawing, I copied the Snow Hill Tender so at least they look the same!
The black smudges are Loctite 480, my superglue of choice. I didn't like the water valves in the kit as the handles were sticking forward as this they are half open, so I scratched these ones up. Just the annoying detail stuff to add now as well as the cab doors, which were a BR era addition.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
As it was a Ministry of Supply loco designed and built during WWII I would suspect speed and simplicity of construction was of the essence in a similar vein to the USATC S160. I would expect sets of drawings were provided to all manufacturers with the parts kept relatively simple to enable them to be produced in moderately equipped workshops - unlike the specialised railway workshops.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
That's an interesting interpretation, Dave. But I suppose it's fair to suggest that the industry had learnt from the debacle of the 'Woolworths' (Woolwich Arsenal 2-6-0) and the problems with getting a skilled and well equipped, but not railway experienced, workshop to produce locomotives.
Steph
Steph
dibateg
Western Thunderer
On the home straight now and with luck I shall be spraying in a couple of days. I enjoy making up the back heads, there was some careful testing to ensure that it fitted the cab. There was some minor adjustments, like reducing the height of the casting slightly to allow the manifold to fit easily. The kit comes with the Westinghouse valve, but I left that off as that would have been long gone by the 1960s. The valve for the sanders didn't seem quite right for this engine, but I ran out of space anyway. It's absence will be difficult to detect in that gloomy cab. The flame scoop is missing - if that what it's called. Some Woodford drivers didn't like them apparently and used to dump them at a remote end of the turning triangle. The spring assemblies were made up and the linkages all drilled 0.7mm and the pins a force fit. Main pivots are 1mm.
A test fit - the reverser and cab seats will be fitted after painting. The cab doors are slightly droopy - like the prototype. There should be another section of plating inboard of the cab handrail panel. I might glue in a plasticard one later if it's absence is too noticeable.
With the good weather last week, I managed to get some primer on the Fruit D - after deciding with my client that the torpedo vents weren't right so I removed them and the simple job of using Sideline shell vents to replace them wasn't. Looking at the photos, I noticed that they are mounted on disks of some sort - wood maybe? So a hunt through all the washer storage turned up some etched ones about the right size. I must have breathed on that left hand step, they are very fragile..
The Beetle also looks better with some primer on.
A test fit - the reverser and cab seats will be fitted after painting. The cab doors are slightly droopy - like the prototype. There should be another section of plating inboard of the cab handrail panel. I might glue in a plasticard one later if it's absence is too noticeable.
With the good weather last week, I managed to get some primer on the Fruit D - after deciding with my client that the torpedo vents weren't right so I removed them and the simple job of using Sideline shell vents to replace them wasn't. Looking at the photos, I noticed that they are mounted on disks of some sort - wood maybe? So a hunt through all the washer storage turned up some etched ones about the right size. I must have breathed on that left hand step, they are very fragile..
The Beetle also looks better with some primer on.
dibateg
Western Thunderer
Valve gear - where to begin with this. I usually divide it up onto lower and upper, i.e. either side of the expansion link. So I assemble a quarter at a time, make sure that works freely then on to the next. This set took twice a s long as normal. You get etched and cast gear in this kit. In actual fact the cast pieces were quite chunky, so they were discounted in the main, look at any photo and you'll see WD valve gear is actually quite slender. I use till roll wrapped round a rod to prevent solder travel when making up joints. Sometimes, if it's tight, no barrier and a tiny bit of flux and a quick dab with the iron. I thought it might be useful to document how I made up this gear, I usually find it relatively easy, lets work forward with each component.
Return crank
I didn't like the ones in the kit, etched or otherwise, these are possibly Griffin, soldered on to a tapped at 10BA brass top hat bearing. The position of the top hat can then be rotated on the crank - taking care not to let solder get into the thread, so that the crank can be wound on to the crank pin and tighten at just the right place.
Eccentric Rod
Two half etches soldered back to back. The bearing at the Return crank is 0.9mm wire force fitted into a 12BA nut and then soldered into a countersink on the rear of the return crank, which can then be filed flush for clearance. A little free movement is left, so that it can waggle. If its too tight and the crank is not exactly parallel with the frames, it will bind..
Expansion Link
A two part casting that is properly slotted, so in theory the loco can be changed from forward to back gear, and it can with a bit of effort. It also has to be parallel with the frames. I fancied having one of my WD's in back gear as they often worked tender first back from Stanton with empties.
Radius Rod
This was the only cast part that I used, but some heavy filing was required to slim it down and make the fork above the valve much finer. It still looks a bit heavy. It also conflicted with the motion bracket, so that had to be ground back.
Combination lever
The cast one was very heavy and had no detail at the top end, so I used the etched one in the kit which was a little short. I only used one thickness, the half etched overlay made the join positions far too thick. As the positions of the top two joints were very close, I had to grind away the inside tops of the valve guides to allow the radius rod to move freely. The lever is also cranked slightly to push the bottom end out in line with the drop link. I found at the forward most part of the travel it jammed against the edge of the slidebar bracket. The only solution to this I could think of was to grind it back and tidy up as best as possible and leave some indication of an edge.
Union link
I used the etched one in the kit, although it seemed a little long and was in danger of clouting the relief valve, the offset of the combination lever hopefully pushes it outboard.
Drop link
Looked nothing like a WD one and I felt slightly too long. Fortunately I never throw anything away and as the Snow Hill crosshead comes as a universal double sided casting, one drop link has to be cut off. I carefully kept those and was able to re-use them I this instance.
Crosshead
There were 3 nuts cast on the triangular plate for the gudgeon pin, I found no evidence for these on a WD and filed them off.
I'm glad I made the motion brackets removable, it would have been impossible otherwise, they've been off that many times.. There are various oilboxes still missing from this area. I need an injection of enthusiasm to tackle those..
Return crank
I didn't like the ones in the kit, etched or otherwise, these are possibly Griffin, soldered on to a tapped at 10BA brass top hat bearing. The position of the top hat can then be rotated on the crank - taking care not to let solder get into the thread, so that the crank can be wound on to the crank pin and tighten at just the right place.
Eccentric Rod
Two half etches soldered back to back. The bearing at the Return crank is 0.9mm wire force fitted into a 12BA nut and then soldered into a countersink on the rear of the return crank, which can then be filed flush for clearance. A little free movement is left, so that it can waggle. If its too tight and the crank is not exactly parallel with the frames, it will bind..
Expansion Link
A two part casting that is properly slotted, so in theory the loco can be changed from forward to back gear, and it can with a bit of effort. It also has to be parallel with the frames. I fancied having one of my WD's in back gear as they often worked tender first back from Stanton with empties.
Radius Rod
This was the only cast part that I used, but some heavy filing was required to slim it down and make the fork above the valve much finer. It still looks a bit heavy. It also conflicted with the motion bracket, so that had to be ground back.
Combination lever
The cast one was very heavy and had no detail at the top end, so I used the etched one in the kit which was a little short. I only used one thickness, the half etched overlay made the join positions far too thick. As the positions of the top two joints were very close, I had to grind away the inside tops of the valve guides to allow the radius rod to move freely. The lever is also cranked slightly to push the bottom end out in line with the drop link. I found at the forward most part of the travel it jammed against the edge of the slidebar bracket. The only solution to this I could think of was to grind it back and tidy up as best as possible and leave some indication of an edge.
Union link
I used the etched one in the kit, although it seemed a little long and was in danger of clouting the relief valve, the offset of the combination lever hopefully pushes it outboard.
Drop link
Looked nothing like a WD one and I felt slightly too long. Fortunately I never throw anything away and as the Snow Hill crosshead comes as a universal double sided casting, one drop link has to be cut off. I carefully kept those and was able to re-use them I this instance.
Crosshead
There were 3 nuts cast on the triangular plate for the gudgeon pin, I found no evidence for these on a WD and filed them off.
I'm glad I made the motion brackets removable, it would have been impossible otherwise, they've been off that many times.. There are various oilboxes still missing from this area. I need an injection of enthusiasm to tackle those..
dibateg
Western Thunderer
90437 is well on the way to being finished, I need to varnish the transfers, add the valve gear lifting links and do bits of painting. Then she will be ready for a track test. Most people probably test it all before painting, but that can involve several strip downs. For a loco that will be pretty shabby, I'm not too worried about an immaculate appearance.
The complex question of BR liveries... Fruit D's were apparently crimson, then maroon later and I suspect with black ends ( anyone know any different? ) I ran out of the excellent JLTRT maroon a while a go and this Precision one looks a bit dark and purple to me. Of course the computer might not render these colours perfectly and it also depends on the light quality at the time the photo was taken. Added to that we probably all see colours differently. What do you think 2Bil? The Beetle is faded crimson, but that will darken significantly with weathering...
The complex question of BR liveries... Fruit D's were apparently crimson, then maroon later and I suspect with black ends ( anyone know any different? ) I ran out of the excellent JLTRT maroon a while a go and this Precision one looks a bit dark and purple to me. Of course the computer might not render these colours perfectly and it also depends on the light quality at the time the photo was taken. Added to that we probably all see colours differently. What do you think 2Bil? The Beetle is faded crimson, but that will darken significantly with weathering...
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Agreed, I see a hint of blue in the image on my screen.
dibateg
Western Thunderer
I met the late Barry Rackstraw a few times and at some point he decided to go back to 4mm scale and I was lucky enough to obtain some kits from him that he was selling. Among them were some BR models GUV etchings. I don't think they were ever released as kits and these must be tests as there is a mistake in that the doors with windows are mirrored in the design. The window door should be on the left. There were no castings or bogies, so the rest was made up from a number of sources. Easy Build bogies and Peter Cowling underframe fittings for starters.
First job is to cut out and reverse the doors with a Stanley knife, supporting the side with blocks of wood. They've been sitting around for a few years ( 2001!) so the brass is a bit tarnished...
I've built one previously ( as has Richard Lambert ) and the etchings are nicely designed and fit together well.
Crumbs - it was 10 years ago!
First job is to cut out and reverse the doors with a Stanley knife, supporting the side with blocks of wood. They've been sitting around for a few years ( 2001!) so the brass is a bit tarnished...
I've built one previously ( as has Richard Lambert ) and the etchings are nicely designed and fit together well.
Crumbs - it was 10 years ago!
dibateg
Western Thunderer
So for a bit of colour comparison, I've done this test
Fruit D and top of can:- Precision Maroon
Middle of can:- Precision Crimson over Maroon
Bottom of can:- Precsion Crimson over primer grey.
Beetle:- Precision faded Crimson.
I'm inclined to do the Fruit D with Crimson over maroon - to me is looks like faded maroon with less purple in it. Having a trawl through my many colour books did turn up some coaches looking purply maroon, but again it's down to film stock, lighting and colour printing and all the stages in between.
Having been in bed for 2 days with a cold, I've tried to do stuff today, but pretty well cocked up everything I've touched - time to give it up for the moment. It doesn't leave a lot, as I can hardly walk either..
Fruit D and top of can:- Precision Maroon
Middle of can:- Precision Crimson over Maroon
Bottom of can:- Precsion Crimson over primer grey.
Beetle:- Precision faded Crimson.
I'm inclined to do the Fruit D with Crimson over maroon - to me is looks like faded maroon with less purple in it. Having a trawl through my many colour books did turn up some coaches looking purply maroon, but again it's down to film stock, lighting and colour printing and all the stages in between.
Having been in bed for 2 days with a cold, I've tried to do stuff today, but pretty well cocked up everything I've touched - time to give it up for the moment. It doesn't leave a lot, as I can hardly walk either..
warren haywood
Western Thunderer
Tony
If you use gloss precision it has much more body than the dull paint
Maybe worth a go
If you use gloss precision it has much more body than the dull paint
Maybe worth a go