TFW’s workshop
- Thread starter Tim Watson
- Start date
Joe's Garage
Western Thunderer
I do remember in my early auto engineering days the rear wheel drive cars had a master spline on the telescopic joint to ensure you couldn't fit the UJs out of line.
Julian
Julian
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
A significant change of style has seen quite a lot of work expended on the Vale Royal board (situated west/ behind Belle Isle). This has always been rather sketchy in its presentation, which works, up to a point…
We were fortunate to inherit some fine industrial buildings from the old ‘Hill End’ 2mm scale layout. I suspect these were made by Ray Fricker. They have been useful to add interest into our industrial hinterland.
At the same time, the south end of the Tylor building has been lowered by 8mm to give a better relationship with the Vale Royal road.
The medium and far distant houses have also acquired rear extensions, garden walls and trees.
We will need to see how all this works with the layout fully assembled and how much more detail could be added. CF has always been a layout of broad brush strokes. Indeed that has literally been the case over the last working sessions as it has had a major clean up.
I’m looking forward to seeing it all together at the Bristol Show in Thornbury at the end of the month.
It is exactly 40 years since John Birkett-Smith, Mike Randall and I started planning the layout.
Tim
We were fortunate to inherit some fine industrial buildings from the old ‘Hill End’ 2mm scale layout. I suspect these were made by Ray Fricker. They have been useful to add interest into our industrial hinterland.
At the same time, the south end of the Tylor building has been lowered by 8mm to give a better relationship with the Vale Royal road.
The medium and far distant houses have also acquired rear extensions, garden walls and trees.
We will need to see how all this works with the layout fully assembled and how much more detail could be added. CF has always been a layout of broad brush strokes. Indeed that has literally been the case over the last working sessions as it has had a major clean up.
I’m looking forward to seeing it all together at the Bristol Show in Thornbury at the end of the month.
It is exactly 40 years since John Birkett-Smith, Mike Randall and I started planning the layout.
Tim
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Paul Tomlinson
Western Thunderer
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
I think there were some construction articles before that, Paul. Its first show was ‘89 at Warley and it’s been unfinished ever since…
Tim
Tim
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JimG
Western Thunderer
I remember its beginnings on show at the 75th (?) anniversary exhibition in London in the 1980s. It was right across the passage from my S scale layout. If I remember correctly what was on show was the work on the hidden sidings.
Jim.
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
Our first show to demonstrate the layout concept was at the last IMREX at the Wembley Conference Centre (probably 1985). We were on the balcony, showing Bill Blackburn’s impressive track making jigs and other display bits, such as the model of the model.
During the show an elderly gentleman and his son enquired on the stand, “Why don’t you use the new PECO track?” I replied that this layout was going to be 2mm finescale and that it would be incompatible. He responded “I’m sure you could get a good deal”. Again I said that it was incompatible with the wheel standards, asking him who he was. “Sidney Pritchard”. He walked off muttering to Michael…
Interesting how things turn out isn’t it? We certainly didn’t expect to still be working on it nearly 40 years on.
Tim
During the show an elderly gentleman and his son enquired on the stand, “Why don’t you use the new PECO track?” I replied that this layout was going to be 2mm finescale and that it would be incompatible. He responded “I’m sure you could get a good deal”. Again I said that it was incompatible with the wheel standards, asking him who he was. “Sidney Pritchard”. He walked off muttering to Michael…
Interesting how things turn out isn’t it? We certainly didn’t expect to still be working on it nearly 40 years on.
Tim
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
Yes it was. There were some beautiful buildings, obviously made by Ray. The baseboards are fantastic (made by Mike Randall), and are the same box-beam design as CF. It would not have been my choice of prototype.
One of our group (Simon Humphries) rescued it from a trip to the skip. The track was going to be re-laid by the Beds & Herts Group, but that stalled after they folded.
Tim
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
Don’t think so. They were part of a brick works model and are quite small. Our factories are taken from aerial photos of the Belle Isle area: but very selective in use/abuse.
Tim
Tim
Herb Garden
Western Thunderer
Tim,
Thanks for sharing some of the layout history. I saw it for the first time in Derby last year and spent a happy hour or so staring and absorbing.
I didn't realise until you mentioned it that the layout is older than I am!
Herbie
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
It has been remarked that CF might have been made quicker if we had used PECO track: Cyril Freezer always used to complain that the layout was taking too long to build and didn’t have enough railway in it. Be that as it may, I don’t think the area could be modelled (properly) with commercial track.
(photo Barry Norman, courtesy MRJ)
One of the great strokes of luck during its construction was the acquisition of a copy of the LNER track diagram dating to 1932. One of our club members is a great collector of antiquarian railway books and ephemera. He was tipped off by the auction house, for which he was a major client, that they had a copy of the LNER engineer’s track plan for Belle Isle and the KX Goods Yard for sale. Due to his standing with them, we were allowed to borrow the plan for a few days. It was a simple job to get the drawing scaled to exact 2mm scale in a print shop and run off a couple of large copies.
We therefore had an accurate track plan in the early 1990s, well before Templot was invented. The late, great, Keith Armes made all the track work in the Belle Isle ‘trough’ and commented that the turnouts and crossings were the longest he had ever made. GNR drivers didn’t hang around getting into the ‘Cross from Finsbury Park, so the cross overs on the up lines were clearly built for speedy transitions.
Tim
(photo Barry Norman, courtesy MRJ)
One of the great strokes of luck during its construction was the acquisition of a copy of the LNER track diagram dating to 1932. One of our club members is a great collector of antiquarian railway books and ephemera. He was tipped off by the auction house, for which he was a major client, that they had a copy of the LNER engineer’s track plan for Belle Isle and the KX Goods Yard for sale. Due to his standing with them, we were allowed to borrow the plan for a few days. It was a simple job to get the drawing scaled to exact 2mm scale in a print shop and run off a couple of large copies.
We therefore had an accurate track plan in the early 1990s, well before Templot was invented. The late, great, Keith Armes made all the track work in the Belle Isle ‘trough’ and commented that the turnouts and crossings were the longest he had ever made. GNR drivers didn’t hang around getting into the ‘Cross from Finsbury Park, so the cross overs on the up lines were clearly built for speedy transitions.
Tim
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
CF is one of the few layouts I pay my entrance fee to exhibitions to see. I have travelled considerable distances to do so. I'm not hung up on track standards but CF would be much poorer without the hand built track.
Brian
Brian
Herb Garden
Western Thunderer
Mr freezers comment might reflect the old ideology of shoving as much track on a baseboard as possible. I'm very glad layouts like CF and others have pioneered placing the railway as part of a proper scene and added track with restraint.
I find with every layout I draw I then have to at least remove a siding or a platform because I've over egged it and left not enough room for the scenery.
How did you go about achieving that Ballance on CF?
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
Thanks Brian. We only do about two shows a year so that it doesn’t get over exposed; also it is such an undertaking to take out that we would loose family goodwill if we did more.
One of our rules is that the layout always goes out with something new on it. Looking back at some of the old photos I think our audience has been very forgiving when you see how empty it was.
To be fair to Cyril, in the early days of the layout it was just the Holloway Bank at the north end of the scene, where the scenery does dominate (even though there are six mainline tracks, a tram & a tube). Once the NLR came into view the balance started to shift and the big change occurred when the KX Goods Yard opened up. The recent York Road works have gone a long way to ‘balancing’ the scene: but that was always intended from the earliest plans. The distribution of viewers is now much more even when on show. Incidentally, any Thunderers who want to have a look behind at shows are very welcome (but please don’t try and have a conversation with me early on the Saturday morning of a two day show…)
Tim
One of our rules is that the layout always goes out with something new on it. Looking back at some of the old photos I think our audience has been very forgiving when you see how empty it was.
To be fair to Cyril, in the early days of the layout it was just the Holloway Bank at the north end of the scene, where the scenery does dominate (even though there are six mainline tracks, a tram & a tube). Once the NLR came into view the balance started to shift and the big change occurred when the KX Goods Yard opened up. The recent York Road works have gone a long way to ‘balancing’ the scene: but that was always intended from the earliest plans. The distribution of viewers is now much more even when on show. Incidentally, any Thunderers who want to have a look behind at shows are very welcome (but please don’t try and have a conversation with me early on the Saturday morning of a two day show…)
Tim
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oldravendale
Western Thunderer
How I agree with you. The MRC have a good track record (!) for getting railway and scenics in proper proportion. In my formative years as a model builder I remember an MRC layout - Chiltern Green I think it was called but Tim will doubtless put me right - which was also 2mm and was landscape - very largely all landscape - with a railway line running through it pretty much on the horizon and a branch coming towards the front. I very much agree that there is a tendency to cram in as much track as possible and that's up to the individual but the really effective exhibition layouts for me are those which show the railway in a believable environment. However, if you're operating your own railway on a daily basis I'm sure that would become tedious and (in ignorance as I don't have a layout) I can understand the need to entertain as many operating scenarios as possible - hence more track.
IMHO Pendon does railways in the landscape rather splendidly as well.
I've seen quite a few layouts now which achieve the display objective, at least as far as I'm concerned, and to discover a new one at an exhibition is always a delight. Historically Railex at Aylesbury has been really successful in that regard over the years and I'm looking forward to the next one in May.
Brian
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
From a youngster, Pendon had a huge influence on what appealed to me in a railway. That and an uncle who was a good artist who got me to paint backscenes on my train sets. Later on, Ivy Bevis-Smith took that to another level on the S gauge layout ‘Thame & Bledlow’. This indirectly led to a particularly threatening sky on my original N gauge layout ‘Gouldby for Caldecote’ (it appeared in the last issue of Model Railways edited by Roy Dock). I think the Pendon Vale Scene is magnificent but I find the layout of the village buildings implausible, wonderful models that the cottages are in their own right. They could also have used a bit of reduced scale in the distant parts of the big scene.
It’s far too easy to be critical though and everyone can get what they want from this wonderful hobby.
Tim
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JimG
Western Thunderer
Les Bevis-Smith got his mum to do the backscene for my S scale layout of Dursley. It was superb but Les had forgotten to tell Ivy that, although I was Scottish, my layout was not based there, and my Dursley was transported from the soft rolling Cotswolds to a more rugged northerly location.
Jim.
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
When she did the Bledlow back scene I had to ask her not to paint shadows of the trees on the layout itself.
Tim
Tim