jonte
Western Thunderer
Still got my supply of powders bought from Freestone at a show; which? I can’t recall, it was so long ago.
Jon
Monks Ferry: a layout for the Grandchildren.
- Thread starter jonte
- Start date
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
As mentioned, I could ramble on as to why this plan simply appeals, but probably a prime reason is that I can now - at long last - provide a home for my redundant station roof:
But the question: ‘what sort of frontage?’ has kept me awake.
Blackfriars station screams SECR in The Smoke:
However, I’d just end up going to town on the detail, despite many parts being available from online laser cut kit proprietors, and as this has to have a narrow window for development - there I go again; I wonder if Hardy ever wrote of ‘nailing one’s colours to the mast’? - I need something that doesn’t contain pitfalls for me to get hung up on.
To that end, I’ve travelled electronically to the other end of the country, and to an area occupied by my near neighbours of Manchester, in particular the former terminus of the Liverpool to Manchester railway, Liverpool Road station:
This was another I’d squirrelled away in the album for a rainy day. I think the careworn, cheapo rendering of its forlorn latter years would help to hasten proceedings, although I think a more Southern style entrance would suit, something along the lines of this resin Scenecraft building, which shouldn’t be too difficult to knock up from odds ‘n’ ends of styrene:
The legend ‘S.E.C.R.’ over the door should swing it.
Due to the size of the station roof (almost 30” in length and up to about 8” in height on a plinth), I’m thinking something of the order of three storeys, with typical sunken Georgian slated roof, enjoying repeated window/door formations/jutted out sections along its length for that period symmetrical look. As it’s raised off the street, as per those inner city London stations of yore, I think simple elongated arch sections in more rendered brick should suffice.
As for tunnel entrances, I made stills of images from an online video I watched on closed London lines the other day, one of which I think would suit and shouldn’t prove too different to replicate:
So, there we are.
Well that’s the idea anyway.
Hope you like it.
jonte
But the question: ‘what sort of frontage?’ has kept me awake.
Blackfriars station screams SECR in The Smoke:
However, I’d just end up going to town on the detail, despite many parts being available from online laser cut kit proprietors, and as this has to have a narrow window for development - there I go again; I wonder if Hardy ever wrote of ‘nailing one’s colours to the mast’? - I need something that doesn’t contain pitfalls for me to get hung up on.
To that end, I’ve travelled electronically to the other end of the country, and to an area occupied by my near neighbours of Manchester, in particular the former terminus of the Liverpool to Manchester railway, Liverpool Road station:
This was another I’d squirrelled away in the album for a rainy day. I think the careworn, cheapo rendering of its forlorn latter years would help to hasten proceedings, although I think a more Southern style entrance would suit, something along the lines of this resin Scenecraft building, which shouldn’t be too difficult to knock up from odds ‘n’ ends of styrene:
The legend ‘S.E.C.R.’ over the door should swing it.
Due to the size of the station roof (almost 30” in length and up to about 8” in height on a plinth), I’m thinking something of the order of three storeys, with typical sunken Georgian slated roof, enjoying repeated window/door formations/jutted out sections along its length for that period symmetrical look. As it’s raised off the street, as per those inner city London stations of yore, I think simple elongated arch sections in more rendered brick should suffice.
As for tunnel entrances, I made stills of images from an online video I watched on closed London lines the other day, one of which I think would suit and shouldn’t prove too different to replicate:
So, there we are.
Well that’s the idea anyway.
Hope you like it.
jonte
John57sharp
Western Thunderer
I like it a very lot actually. According to my files this is part of the Liverpool Rd area too just in case it helps.
John
John
Lyndhurstman
Western Thunderer
Very nice, Jon. Anything that sheds light on your talents is welcome.
I like that last urban tunnel; do you know where it is? Shades of Victoria Wharf down here in Plymouth.
Cheers
Jan
I like that last urban tunnel; do you know where it is? Shades of Victoria Wharf down here in Plymouth.
Cheers
Jan
jonte
Western Thunderer
Not seen it from this angle before, Johnny, so many thanks for sharing
I think I’m right in saying that the building in shot is the Station Agent’s house, which must have been a position held during the early years of the railway as I’d not heard of it before nor since.
Thanks for your interest, John.
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Jan, and good to hear from you
Hope all is well with you.
Your encouragement is most welcome as usual, Jan, and blushing at your flattering words
As to the location, I’m really not sure; it just appeared among the plethora of stuff that pops on YouTube once you pique its interest. I’ll see if I can find it again for you and let you know either way
Will also take a butcher’s at Victoria Wharf; sounds right up my street
Thanks again.
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Jan (@Lyndhurstman)
I managed to find it and am hoping that the link below works (please let me know if it doesn’t and I’ll try again; YouTube has recently changed its format so just trying to get to grips with it
):
It would appear that the tunnel is the exit from Moorgate on the old Widened Lines, of which coincidently, I know you’re quite fond
Hope it helps.
Jon
I managed to find it and am hoping that the link below works (please let me know if it doesn’t and I’ll try again; YouTube has recently changed its format so just trying to get to grips with it
):It would appear that the tunnel is the exit from Moorgate on the old Widened Lines, of which coincidently, I know you’re quite fond
Hope it helps.
Jon
Lyndhurstman
Western Thunderer
Hi Jonte
Thanks. I’ll give it a watch on my laptop tomorrow.
Victoria Wharves were the limit of the Cattedown branch (as a Plymouth boy, the line has long held a fascination for me). There’s a good pictorial description of the line here
The first image is the ‘tunnel’ I was thinking of; it’s actually a headshunt, going nowhere….
Lots of lovely clutter, and dual gauged cranes, not trains..)
Cheers
Jan
Thanks. I’ll give it a watch on my laptop tomorrow.
Victoria Wharves were the limit of the Cattedown branch (as a Plymouth boy, the line has long held a fascination for me). There’s a good pictorial description of the line here
Lots of lovely clutter, and dual gauged cranes, not trains..)
Cheers
Jan
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Jonte
Thanks. I’ll give it a watch on my laptop tomorrow.
Victoria Wharves were the limit of the Cattedown branch (as a Plymouth boy, the line has long held a fascination for me). There’s a good pictorial description of the line here
The first image is the ‘tunnel’ I was thinking of; it’s actually a headshunt, going nowhere….
Lots of lovely clutter, and dual gauged cranes, not trains..)
Cheers
Jan
Thanks, Jan
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
I’ve been delaying painting the airing cupboard - and testing the patience of my long suffering wife in the process - by sprucing up the walls of my new ‘cocooned’ workshop with the contents of a couple of tins of spare paint, well past their sell-by, and replacing the shelves and their brackets:
Some sealant will still need to be applied here and there to try and deter my spidery friends, which can wait till my brother in law returns from Switzerland at the end of the week; he acquits himself better to these tasks than I:
The desk will go here, but as it’s currently performing the vital role of dining room table, it will have to wait until building work commences in the New Year:
I’ve still to decide at what height to fix a shelf or two.
The opposite corner:
The BLT back on the bench at long last to have the holes drilled for the remaining signals, followed by wiring rerouting and motors fitted:
Then I can at long last move on to building the train set
Finally, the lone signal:
Talking of the trainset, I’ve decided to indulge myself in a Rebuilt Merchant Navy Class like this one:
Yeah, I know: way too big for this layout, but still, I’d like to treat myself, and the missing lates etc are a real draw.
I reckon a little judicious spraying with the gun, a splash or two of Klear, and a swipe with a cut down swab/rigger, followed by a visit from an ‘ome-made dabber to the tender would do the trick.
For the pinkish hue of the boxey thingy below the footplate, I think the colour mix (if I can remember it) used on the smoke box of the following Hall would be a good start:
That said, my granddaughter doesn’t recognise steam engines and insists that the carriage should lead the train in the wooden train set we bought her the influence of modern stock she sees on the Southport line), so running in company will require the outlay on modern stock. So the Kettles will have to merely for my entertainment
Thanks for looking.
jonte
Some sealant will still need to be applied here and there to try and deter my spidery friends, which can wait till my brother in law returns from Switzerland at the end of the week; he acquits himself better to these tasks than I:
The desk will go here, but as it’s currently performing the vital role of dining room table, it will have to wait until building work commences in the New Year:
I’ve still to decide at what height to fix a shelf or two.
The opposite corner:
The BLT back on the bench at long last to have the holes drilled for the remaining signals, followed by wiring rerouting and motors fitted:
Then I can at long last move on to building the train set
Finally, the lone signal:
Talking of the trainset, I’ve decided to indulge myself in a Rebuilt Merchant Navy Class like this one:
Yeah, I know: way too big for this layout, but still, I’d like to treat myself, and the missing lates etc are a real draw.
I reckon a little judicious spraying with the gun, a splash or two of Klear, and a swipe with a cut down swab/rigger, followed by a visit from an ‘ome-made dabber to the tender would do the trick.
For the pinkish hue of the boxey thingy below the footplate, I think the colour mix (if I can remember it) used on the smoke box of the following Hall would be a good start:
That said, my granddaughter doesn’t recognise steam engines and insists that the carriage should lead the train in the wooden train set we bought her the influence of modern stock she sees on the Southport line), so running in company will require the outlay on modern stock. So the Kettles will have to merely for my entertainment
Thanks for looking.
jonte
Attachments
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
It would appear that the tunnel is the exit from Moorgate on the old Widened Lines, of which coincidently, I know you’re quite fond
In pedant mode.... and having an interest in the Widened Lines anyway (Met and Midland) - this is the GN Widened Lines entrance from the KX York Road platform towards Farringdon. The GN Widened Lines exit was via the Hotel Curve on t'other side coming up next to the suburban platforms.
Of course the Midland widened lines from Kentish Town still exist and access to this from the GN main line is via a new tunnel for the Thameslink services. You can just see this junction from the end of the north end of the new St. Pancras widened lines platforms.
Pedant mode off....
jonte
Western Thunderer
I gave up trying to imagine how the plan might work in reality, so reached for a spare roll of lining paper, pencil ‘n’ scissors.
Here’s a reminder of the plan just after I reversed it:
Here’s how I began to plan it in reality, joining up sections of lining paper to make an area measuring 8’x4’, a traditional sized train set as I know it:
I started by laying down the 2nd and 3rd radii curves, thinking this would be a good start, as I could gauge everything else from this, as seen above. The tape measure represents the degree of arc of the straight section of station after it leaves the curved station throat area. This was chosen at random, so as to maximise the length of platforms. It’s shallower than that of the plan as I’ve opted for Streamline rather than the Hornby track of the plan.
Once I’d laid the curves, I drew the rest, choosing a simple figure of eight for no other reason than it seemed to marry up better. I hope this doesn’t cause the line leaving the station to drop too sharply: perhaps I should impose a speed limit
Hopefully the lines into the platforms and headshunt can seen more easily, which I’ve picked out in pink. My apologies for the poor lighting. In reality, these can be moved around to increase or decrease the spacings between tracks, handy for accommodating the pillars of the train shed roof. This just gives an idea.
A close up of the Peco Uni frog Setrack curves, separated by a quarter(?) section of curve to preserve the distance between the curves. This was the only Setrack requirement, and of my own invention to allow trains to enter any platform. I’m considering the inclusion of two more small radius points to allow trains to ‘leave’ from any platform too, as there seems plenty of room for them:
Indulging myself here with the roof:
And again with a typical BR(S) train consist:
I’d intended running only two coaches per train, however, there seems plenty of room for perhaps three coaches with a large loco such as a 5MTor N Class in the two longer platform roads.
I reckon that if I start the climb on the bend before the straight run back towards the station, I might be able to construct an incline as gentle as three-ish per cent. That said, as I’m going DCC, I can always bolster the train with a banking engine!
Talking of DCC, I received good news today from Bachmann U.K. : The N class and 5MT are not indeed split chassis-ed as I first feared, resulting in a simple hard-wiring of a chip for each. Pleased as Punch about this, especially as an online model railway store erroneously lists both as split chassis. Relief.
So there we are. Hope you like it, but if you spot anything I didn’t, please let me know
And now it’s time to get back to signalling my other layout, but at least I’m fairly sure it will fit in a realistic space.
Cheers,
jonte
Here’s a reminder of the plan just after I reversed it:
Here’s how I began to plan it in reality, joining up sections of lining paper to make an area measuring 8’x4’, a traditional sized train set as I know it:
I started by laying down the 2nd and 3rd radii curves, thinking this would be a good start, as I could gauge everything else from this, as seen above. The tape measure represents the degree of arc of the straight section of station after it leaves the curved station throat area. This was chosen at random, so as to maximise the length of platforms. It’s shallower than that of the plan as I’ve opted for Streamline rather than the Hornby track of the plan.
Once I’d laid the curves, I drew the rest, choosing a simple figure of eight for no other reason than it seemed to marry up better. I hope this doesn’t cause the line leaving the station to drop too sharply: perhaps I should impose a speed limit
Hopefully the lines into the platforms and headshunt can seen more easily, which I’ve picked out in pink. My apologies for the poor lighting. In reality, these can be moved around to increase or decrease the spacings between tracks, handy for accommodating the pillars of the train shed roof. This just gives an idea.
A close up of the Peco Uni frog Setrack curves, separated by a quarter(?) section of curve to preserve the distance between the curves. This was the only Setrack requirement, and of my own invention to allow trains to enter any platform. I’m considering the inclusion of two more small radius points to allow trains to ‘leave’ from any platform too, as there seems plenty of room for them:
Indulging myself here with the roof:
And again with a typical BR(S) train consist:
I’d intended running only two coaches per train, however, there seems plenty of room for perhaps three coaches with a large loco such as a 5MTor N Class in the two longer platform roads.
I reckon that if I start the climb on the bend before the straight run back towards the station, I might be able to construct an incline as gentle as three-ish per cent. That said, as I’m going DCC, I can always bolster the train with a banking engine!
Talking of DCC, I received good news today from Bachmann U.K. : The N class and 5MT are not indeed split chassis-ed as I first feared, resulting in a simple hard-wiring of a chip for each. Pleased as Punch about this, especially as an online model railway store erroneously lists both as split chassis. Relief.
So there we are. Hope you like it, but if you spot anything I didn’t, please let me know
And now it’s time to get back to signalling my other layout, but at least I’m fairly sure it will fit in a realistic space.
Cheers,
jonte
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Nice to see the train shed overall roof coming into use .
The layout is not too dissimilar to something I keep thinking and playing about with for a 1 x 3m layout based on Waxweiler in the Eifel region. Utilising either RocoLine or Fleischmann Profi track (I hate ballasting
) and DCC control since automatic reversing loop modules are available. With two reverse loops it looks like I could store four trains. The original article is from Eisenbahn Modellbahn Magazin.
.The layout is not too dissimilar to something I keep thinking and playing about with for a 1 x 3m layout based on Waxweiler in the Eifel region. Utilising either RocoLine or Fleischmann Profi track (I hate ballasting
) and DCC control since automatic reversing loop modules are available. With two reverse loops it looks like I could store four trains. The original article is from Eisenbahn Modellbahn Magazin.
David Waite
Western Thunderer
Hi Jonte
Dave made me look closer at your plan as he spoke about reversing loop modules, did you know the red crossover you have drawn in causes two reverse loops in your track plan.
David.
Dave made me look closer at your plan as he spoke about reversing loop modules, did you know the red crossover you have drawn in causes two reverse loops in your track plan.
David.
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Dave @Yorkshire Dave
Loving the plan, but ‘all them trees’
Plenty of play value, Dave, but looks prototypical too. I don’t blame you for cheating on the ballasting; the Profi track looks quality Incidentally, if you do decide to go for it and employ Profi, be careful if you plan to ‘sprinkle’ material in between the tracks. Watched a vid on YT only a couple of days ago where the author did just so and ended up having to lift sections of previously laid track, just to remove a single point as glue had found it’s way into a slot on one side of the tie bar I bet he felt like crying……
Another brother in law of mine is German, and he’s dabbled with Fleischmann over the years in both HO and N, so I can vouch for the quality of these products; but the prices I guess you only gets wot you pay for.
With mention of auto reversers, I’ve been wondering whether I’vecreated a headache for myself with this plan and DCC, and from the plan you’ve posted, I think I just might have …….
Thankfully, I’ve just noticed David’s post (@David Waite ) whom , having identified it, with his superior knowledge of such things, might just be willing to assist me
Thanks for your interest.
Jon
Loving the plan, but ‘all them trees’
Plenty of play value, Dave, but looks prototypical too. I don’t blame you for cheating on the ballasting; the Profi track looks quality
Incidentally, if you do decide to go for it and employ Profi, be careful if you plan to ‘sprinkle’ material in between the tracks. Watched a vid on YT only a couple of days ago where the author did just so and ended up having to lift sections of previously laid track, just to remove a single point as glue had found it’s way into a slot on one side of the tie bar I bet he felt like crying……Another brother in law of mine is German, and he’s dabbled with Fleischmann over the years in both HO and N, so I can vouch for the quality of these products; but the prices
I guess you only gets wot you pay for.With mention of auto reversers, I’ve been wondering whether I’vecreated a headache for myself with this plan and DCC, and from the plan you’ve posted, I think I just might have …….
Thankfully, I’ve just noticed David’s post (@David Waite ) whom , having identified it, with his superior knowledge of such things, might just be willing to assist me
Thanks for your interest.
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi David
Many thanks for your interest and input
I didn’t realise this, David to be honest, so thank you.
Just so I’ve got this clear in my thick bonce, if you look at the third photo down in my earlier thread, is this the set of crossovers to which you refer?
If so, where would I fit the auto reverser - or even auto reversers
- in relation to the set of crossovers (I’m thinking if two reverse loops, then two auto reversers required?).To extrapolate, if I decided to add a further two points (two left hand points) to form another crossover, immediately to the station side of the curved crossovers being discussed (which would all ow trains to depart from any platform), would that in effect create further loops requiring extra auto reversers; if so how many, and where would I stick ‘em?
Apologies for lumping this on you, David, but if you can spare a ‘mo’, would you kindly advise, please?
Many thanks once again.
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Further to David’s earlier kind observation, I’ve been tracing round the plan with an index finger and thumb to determine whether a loop exists or not - not that I’m doubting of course
Indeed, whether I choose either track after the curved crossover, i e top track or bottom, my finger/thumb arrangements only swap sides of rail once, leading me - correctly or otherwise - to deduce that there is only one reverse loop.
Continuing station side, my finger/thumb arrangement doesn’t swap sides of rail at all, therefore I can only conclude that the former scenario is the sole reversing loop.
I’ve drawn on the previous photo in red where I ‘believe’ the double breaks should go to isolate the loop from the rest of the layout, and thus between which the AR should be connected:
The yellow double break is just the usual location for IRJs between crossovers which have electrofrogs .
I’m a bit stumped here, so if anyone can point me in the right direction, I’d be most grateful.
I’d consider going back to DC and employing some sort of cab control, but it would mean having to stop the trains after entering the loop to flick the DPDT switch and change over the exit point, unless someone has developed some sort of apparatus for performing the same job automatically as per an AR?
Hmmm…..
jonte
Indeed, whether I choose either track after the curved crossover, i e top track or bottom, my finger/thumb arrangements only swap sides of rail once, leading me - correctly or otherwise - to deduce that there is only one reverse loop.
Continuing station side, my finger/thumb arrangement doesn’t swap sides of rail at all, therefore I can only conclude that the former scenario is the sole reversing loop.
I’ve drawn on the previous photo in red where I ‘believe’ the double breaks should go to isolate the loop from the rest of the layout, and thus between which the AR should be connected:
The yellow double break is just the usual location for IRJs between crossovers which have electrofrogs .
I’m a bit stumped here, so if anyone can point me in the right direction, I’d be most grateful.
I’d consider going back to DC and employing some sort of cab control, but it would mean having to stop the trains after entering the loop to flick the DPDT switch and change over the exit point, unless someone has developed some sort of apparatus for performing the same job automatically as per an AR?
Hmmm…..
jonte
John57sharp
Western Thunderer
Jonte I’m no help on the current debate, but let me put in a belated vote in favour of the MN. i still have the Hornby Dublo West Country ”Barnstaple” that my Grandad bought for our 8x4 train set some 60 years ago. She’s a shelf queen for now, but I have half a plan…
Mind the gap(s)
John
Mind the gap(s)
John