farnetti
Western Thunderer
Thanks Bob. I've found some photos which seem to show the arrangement but any further details would put my mind at rest.
Ken
Cracking build. Must get my construction skills up to that level
Those new kits of DJP do have some incredible detail, I especially like the bogie construction. I found the Parkin book really useful when I was working on the full size ones and still have it so when the workbench is clear we will have to have a t least one MK1
As to handrails on the ends, the Parkin page 188 shows a BG in Royal Mail service and the rails are roughly half the coach height from solebar to gutter and placed almost centrally. As Heather says with not having toilet tanks fitted the handrail is just that and not a filler pipe
Got the ruler out and scaled it off an they start 15" from the solebar and 17" from the gutter, but as we found 'BR Standard' was just a name
Those new kits of DJP do have some incredible detail, I especially like the bogie construction. I found the Parkin book really useful when I was working on the full size ones and still have it so when the workbench is clear we will have to have a t least one MK1
As to handrails on the ends, the Parkin page 188 shows a BG in Royal Mail service and the rails are roughly half the coach height from solebar to gutter and placed almost centrally. As Heather says with not having toilet tanks fitted the handrail is just that and not a filler pipe
Got the ruler out and scaled it off an they start 15" from the solebar and 17" from the gutter, but as we found 'BR Standard' was just a name
Been thinking about the rails while ironing my shirts (job share with the wife 
)
They should be the same fitting as the non-bog end of the passenger stock. Well that's the theory and dare a I say it on a Western based forum it was the Swindon built MK1's that were the Most Special
)They should be the same fitting as the non-bog end of the passenger stock. Well that's the theory and dare a I say it on a Western based forum it was the Swindon built MK1's that were the Most Special
Ken -
Here we go - both ends the same. Simple handrail on the right.
On the left, if all steps are fitted - the handrail goes right up to the roof, with a further small grab rail adjacent on the roof. There are marks for drilling out the locations for these on the underside of the roof in the kit.
On the left, if the upper steps are removed - the handrail was cut off just above the L shaped support strut that comes out of the end just below cantrail level. In this case the grab rail on the roof was removed.
Parts are in the kit for these options.
Later on [and I think Bob-65B will confirm this] the arrangement on the LH side was replaced with the same handrail as on the RH side - on some vehicles only. I certainly remember seeing some of the IC liveried BGs on the WCML with this arrangement - also a BSK. Although I know that option is not of your period.
Hope this helps.
OT - cannot recommend John Maclaughlin's Black Light album enough - the best thing I've heard in years!
DJP/MMP
farnetti
Western Thunderer
Many thanks David.
I have finally found a second hand copy of the Keith Parkin book which shows everything clearly. In particular I see that I have shaped the roof grab rails incorrectly and so will they be corrected. I am building the early version with the handrails continuing up onto the roof and this is where the Keith Parkin book is very helpful.
Another little problem of my own making is that I have soldered the inner ends to the roof before drilling the handrail holes, duh! So I have lost the mark nearest the coach end as it is hidden by the inner end tab. Any chance of letting me know its location, distance in from the roof end in line with the grab rail?
I'll certainly check out Black Light and let you know when I order the threatened Class 31 (unless something else of course something takes my fancy first).
Currently working on the 224 bits (according to Simon) that are attached the outer sides. Photos when done.
Ken
I have finally found a second hand copy of the Keith Parkin book which shows everything clearly. In particular I see that I have shaped the roof grab rails incorrectly and so will they be corrected. I am building the early version with the handrails continuing up onto the roof and this is where the Keith Parkin book is very helpful.
Another little problem of my own making is that I have soldered the inner ends to the roof before drilling the handrail holes, duh! So I have lost the mark nearest the coach end as it is hidden by the inner end tab. Any chance of letting me know its location, distance in from the roof end in line with the grab rail?
I'll certainly check out Black Light and let you know when I order the threatened Class 31 (unless something else of course something takes my fancy first).
Currently working on the 224 bits (according to Simon) that are attached the outer sides. Photos when done.
Ken
Ken -
On the CAD drawings its just under 1.5mm in from the extreme end of the coach roof and in line with the grab rail locations.
DJP
But you do like jazz Ken - don't be ashamed of it - its time to come out!!!
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Thanks for the tip, I couldn't find that album on Spotify, but did give Siren a listen and quite enjoyed it (I have no problem admitting that I like jazz in public
).
Bob Reid
Western Thunderer
Spot on with your description and model as usual David! The handrail only began to be changed from late 1960 in connection with the working of Mk1's under overhead lines - the drawing below from November 1960 summarises what changes were to be carried out on existing Mk1's and on new builds from then on. Of course there were the usual anomalies - some vehicles had the handrail cut back as indicated but the commode handle on the roof was left behind when as David said it was to be removed. Others retained the small stepboard over the gangway whilst others lost it as indicated.
Thanks for the tip, I couldn't find that album on Spotify, but did give Siren a listen and quite enjoyed it (I have no problem admitting that I like jazz in public
Welcome to Jazz Club - Cool!
Apologies to The Fast Show.
farnetti
Western Thunderer
I have added all the tiddly bits to the outer sides.
I didn't notice until these photos that the hinges seem to be handed vertically but can't find any close up photographic evidence. Anyone know so I can tidy them up?
It took me a while to think about how to fix the door handles without everything going out of square and/or falling apart. They are soldered to a piece of wire, through an escutcheon plate to the body.
I put lengths of wire right through the body, and then used the RSU to solder the handles in place. The wire will then be cut and the insides carefully cleaned up with a grinder to accept the inner body.
After fitting the end handrails and electrical connectors this part of the build is finished.
Redo the roof handrails, fit the buffers and fiddly chain bits on the buffer beam and I think I'm nearly done.
Richard Carr said in another post he thought it would take him a year to make an MMP coach kit. I suppose it depends on how much time is available and level of commitment but sounds about right to me. I have been doing other things though, including currently an LMS 40 ton bogie trolley wagon (wheels currently being re-profiled for S7) and embryonic chassis for an LMS 30 ton bolster wagon.
Looking forward to the Bristol show next weekend.
Ken
I didn't notice until these photos that the hinges seem to be handed vertically but can't find any close up photographic evidence. Anyone know so I can tidy them up?
It took me a while to think about how to fix the door handles without everything going out of square and/or falling apart. They are soldered to a piece of wire, through an escutcheon plate to the body.
I put lengths of wire right through the body, and then used the RSU to solder the handles in place. The wire will then be cut and the insides carefully cleaned up with a grinder to accept the inner body.
After fitting the end handrails and electrical connectors this part of the build is finished.
Redo the roof handrails, fit the buffers and fiddly chain bits on the buffer beam and I think I'm nearly done.
Richard Carr said in another post he thought it would take him a year to make an MMP coach kit. I suppose it depends on how much time is available and level of commitment but sounds about right to me. I have been doing other things though, including currently an LMS 40 ton bogie trolley wagon (wheels currently being re-profiled for S7) and embryonic chassis for an LMS 30 ton bolster wagon.
Looking forward to the Bristol show next weekend.
Ken
Bob Reid
Western Thunderer
Self-Aligning Hinges - on the real thing Ken - were split in two horizontally through the centre of the hinge body, with each half having a casting with four screw holes to fix to either the bodyside or the door frame. All were fiited with Tecalmit grease nipples on top for lubricating them, and this was always at the top of the hinge. Irrespective of the doors hinge side - left or right, the half screwed to the door was always the top half and the half screwed to the bodyside was always the bottom half....
Not a great photo, but look close on this example and you perhaps can see what I'm on about;
Here's a better shot with the bodyside half on the left and the door half on the right.
Mk1 RMB S1840 (56)
And before Graham asks - yes the pre-1953 Mk1's used Butt Hinges, not these Self-Aligning Hinges - many of the pre-53' Mk1's had the later hinges fitted when the door pans were replaced / renewed....
Not a great photo, but look close on this example and you perhaps can see what I'm on about;
Here's a better shot with the bodyside half on the left and the door half on the right.
Mk1 RMB S1840 (56)
And before Graham asks - yes the pre-1953 Mk1's used Butt Hinges, not these Self-Aligning Hinges - many of the pre-53' Mk1's had the later hinges fitted when the door pans were replaced / renewed....
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farnetti
Western Thunderer
I didn't realise how long it was but looks mightily impressive. Building the diamond frame bogies at the moment and hoping to have it at our local S7 meeting this weekend (we'll see). Despite its size it the body goes together very quickly, the bogies take a bit longer.
If you get one, Parky, the main issue with the body is to ensure that you get the inner ends of part 1 of the End Chassis Framework exactly correct to meet part 14 of the Well Section. Part 1 necessarily has etched slots for the inner solebars which weaken the inner end and it is easy to get it slightly out of true.
I don't know whether this is an early product but there are a few rivets and etched lines on the wrong side, easy to remedy. Despite its size I think this is the easiest MMP kit I have built so far.
Ken
farnetti
Western Thunderer
Hi Graham,
Sorry I didn't see you at Bristol, I can bring along to a future show, let me know where you're headed.
Ken