Mike G's Workspace.

[Mike Garwood]

My thanks to Simon and Adam for their contributions to the 14t wagon build.

I have now added/sprayed a faded red to the sole bar..it's barely visible (I think I may have thinned it too much) so some dry brushing may be needed. I'm not sure how I'm going to remove the PVA.
The first whitemetal model I ever built - a Brit - was treated to extra weight, lead sheet, held in place with PVA. 26 years later it's still ok. It might be fun to see how long it takes for the expansion to occur and what shape the wagon will end up being in. Please don't think I'm being awkward (or ungrateful for the help), I'm not, I just cannot see a way to rectify the mistake. So may as well make light of it and move on, having learned from the mistake.

In other news...the 51xx received a light gloss coat today. I so wish it had looked like this after it's initial coat.



Stay safe

Mike

 

[Mick LNER]

Place the body in water and leave to soak ,eventually the glue should/will disolve (at a total guess?) .

 

[simond]

Mike,

you might be lucky, I wasn't. Slaters' 6 wheel milk tank professionally built, and the smokebox of a loco I built. It's a bummer to be sure.

Not sure if Mick's suggestion will work, but if you have a plastic body and it's not yet finished, warm water might soften the pva enough to get it out, depends on how well set it is and whether its the good stuff (outdoor woodworking) or cheap & cheerful ("school" glue).

Gvien it's now attached to the chassis, I think maybe you just let it be and keep your fingers crossed.

51's looking good. Mine's still in a box!

best
Simon

 

[Mike Garwood]

Progress has again slowed to a snails pace...but this morning I had a couple of hours to move the painting forward. For the black I've used Humbrol black enamel, thinned with white spirit. Now I've been told never to use enamel over the top of acrylic. Well it's been several hours since I did this and so far so good. The cab interior has been washed over with black as well.



The driver posed in place - the backhead is now under construction, another dip back into the destructions and also the plans. It's like wading through treacle...just not as tasty. Going back to the driver...this is a Hornby Dublo item. I've had this since I was a boy, about time he earned his longevity.



This is the firemen, now this is a whitemetal character from Montys Models - part of the MJT range.

The smokebox has had 2 coats and I'm pleased with the way that this is coming together, unfortunately for the next 3 days I shall be away from home with no access to a workbench. Monday can't come quick enough.

That reminds me to order the lining and engine number - Fox.

Stay safe.

Mike

 

[Mike Garwood]

Back into it today. Second coats for the buffer beams and various other bits. I also completed the backhead. Looks a right dogs dinner! But as it'll never be seen I'm not too worried...there's a representation in the cab. If I had followed the instructions and the GA that were in the plans, the backhead would have taken as long as the body build took...life's too short. So many engines, so little time .



The smokebox does have a fair few splodges of paint, again not perturbed by this as the engine will be weathered, 4135 was not the cleanest of engines.



There's a plastic floor to be glued into the bunker floor and glazing to add to the cab front windows. The transfers from Fox have arrived, but I really ought to put the wheels on, before I go any further and see if I actually have a working engine. So...

Stay safe

Mike

 

[Mike Garwood]

As usual things don't go to plan. One of the Sharman drivers has not gone on properly (binned the lot), so I've had to order a new set of wheels from Mr Gibson. These should be here next week. I was hoping to have this running by the end of the month.

Live and learn...

Mike

 

[Lyndhurstman]

As usual things don't go to plan. One of the Sharman drivers has not gone on properly (binned the lot), so I've had to order a new set of wheels from Mr Gibson. These should be here next week. I was hoping to have this running by the end of the month.

Live and learn...

Mike

I feel your pain, Mike.
Tricksy things. Despite putting chamfers (bevels) on all the axle ends, I still scarfed one up (it had to be the last one, didn’t it?) on my Gibson J15. I really should get another pair…

Cheers

Jan

 

[Phil O]

As usual things don't go to plan. One of the Sharman drivers has not gone on properly (binned the lot), so I've had to order a new set of wheels from Mr Gibson. These should be here next week. I was hoping to have this running by the end of the month.

Live and learn...

Mike

Hi Mike, you might strike it lucky, if the Royal Mail gets it's finger out and delivers before Christmas, if Colin has got your order.

I phoned Colin and left my order on the answerphone, he phoned back later in the day for my card details and I received the goods 4 days later.

 

[Mike Garwood]

Wheels arrived a few days ago. Thank you Colin for a prompt delivery.

No dramas in getting these on square with no wobble. Christmas is now getting in the way of further progress. So next week should see the chip and pick ups added - ready for a sneaky trip to Barrow Road!



Happy Christmas all.

Stay safe

Mike

 

[Phil O]

Good to know that Colin is keeping up the impeccable service.

 

[Mike Garwood]

I hope you've all got a good weekend ahead of you?
I've just returned from a trip to Barrow Road. As usual some very mixed results. Let's start with the good news...I took the 8f with me to try and solve the problems of intermittent running. I hadn't convinced myself that the problem lay with the chip. I put the model onto a spare bit of track on the back roads of the shed...so it was out of the way. The same problem, I hadn't done anything to it so why should the problem go away. I reasoned that if it took some movement when the power was added, then this could be just a pick up problem. I had taken with me my modeling glasses, my normal glasses just don't cut it when getting really close. Examined the wheels and they weren't dirty. The pick ups are from phosphor bronze and they all looked ok, so to be sure I ran the smallest screw driver between the pick up and the wheel...fluff, loads of fluff from all 8 wheels. Then I readjusted the position of some of the pick ups onto the wheels. Put the beast back on the track...fixed - for now. I really should replace the pick ups. But I'm happy to know that there's nothing mechanically wrong, or worse still the chip was faulty.

If you've managed to get hold of any 4mm DCC chips please let me know where from. I have a stache, but it is not big enough to cover the engines that I have left to build. And I need some spares should the inevitable happen. Would you be kind enough to let me know from which distributor you got them from.

I took the opportunity to run the 14t tank wagon and the 16t min through some complicated point work and both passed with out problem.

Now the bad news.
Mr Finneys GWR 51xx, I'm really beginning to take the problems this model is causing personally! Having fitted the wheels and the coupling rods with the motor and g/box earlier this week, I had tightened up the grub screw and left it alone...untill I took it to BR today. I have not fitted any pick ups as yet.
Released the grub screw and was amazed to find that the wheels would not turn...at all. Now I should explain that when I put the first set of wheels on the front position I could not get them to close enough to make the B-T-B, not even close, the gauge was millimeters away. So these had to come off and have the backs filed down. This is when I should have realised there was a problem with the width of the chassis...but the grey cells didn't kick in and I continued with putting the rest of the wheels in.
And this is why the engine will never turn a corner, it will drive on straight track, but will never ever get around the smallest corner. Why? Because there is no sideplay on either the middle or end drivers. In fairness this was pointed out to me by Morgan Gilbert along with a host of other things.

So...solutions...
Option 1 - Strip the chassis take out the overwidth P4 spacers (the outside width of the frames measures at 16.9 mm. P4 B-T-B measures 17.7mm). And replace them with the EM spacers from the kit - this should give the sideplay I need. Just one small problem with that - I binned all that stuff once the model and chassis had been completed.
Option 2 - Strip the chassis, unsolder one side of the spacers to the frames. Remove 1mm of the spacers that have been exposed and then resolder the removed frame back, once all the material has been removed. Problem with this solution is that it's going to take a lot of heat to remove the spacers and it will mean that the compensation beams will require altering as will the front compensation beam, as it will no longer be in the middle of the chassis.
Option 3 - Strip the chassis, take out all the spacers from both sides of the chassis and completely re-build the chassis using Comet spacers - which are what I normally use - these measure at 15.5 mm not including the chassis sides. Problem with this method is the joggle in the frames at the front and rear.

Currently I don't have a fourth option, if you can think of one, I'd love to hear it. To say I'm angry is an understatement.

But to round off here's a photo of the shed with the new additions that Robin has added. Amazing work!



Stay safe

Mike

 

[simond]

Mike,

if I’ve read your post correctly, you have frames which measure 16.9, and wheel BTB of 17.7.

Now I play in the relatively easy world of 7mm 0MF, where I’m assuming there is loads more free play between wheel & track than you have in P4, but is 0.8mm really not enough, it’s 2.4” full size? And clearly you can’t have all of that or the wheels will rub the paint off the frames, but let’s say you can have half of it.

As a first approximation, if I draw a chord 59mm (14’9”) long and offset a point 28mm & 0.4mm I can draw a circle through the three points, I get a radius of 1085mm or about 3’7” (or 542 feet, which is admittedly way bigger than the 330’ that Wikipedia gives for the minimum slow curve rad for the real thing) but this does not allow for gauge widening or flange clearance, which will reduce (ie improve) this minimum somewhat.

Herewith the Manor chassis I’m currently constructing on a nominal 6’ curve, though I suspect it’s marginally tighter…



BTB is standard 0 gauge Fine at 29.2 and the frames are 28. The axleboxes stick out slightly and stop the wheels rubbing on the frames. Total axle sideplay is 0.6. The track-wheel clearance is critical, as you can see.

Can you not make it work as designed?

Hth
Simon

 

[Bulldog3444]

Hi Mike,

Sorry to hear of your problems with the Finney 51xx. My experience with this kit so far is that it is 'challenging'. It is a very comprehensive kit, with lots of small parts to be fitted, and in P4 the clearances are wafer thin.

I managed to get the chassis to run OK in P4 using the P4 spacers and Ultrascale wheels, but I recall that I had to file off the rivet detail on the frame overlays in order to get the rear drivers to run OK without snagging or shorting on the rivets. There is no side to side movement on the front drivers - essential in order to avoid the front crankpin touching the rear of the crosshead - and just a little sideplay on the middle and rear drivers.

It does go round the curves on my Dulverton layout - minimum radius 1200mm - and also runs OK round the DRAG test track.

I am afraid I haven't made any progress with my 51xx since I my post #413 several months ago.

That turns out to be good news - I've just checked in the box, and I still have the EM frame spacers, parts 3,4,5 and 6. I would be very happy to send them to you, which would enable you to progress Option 1. Just send me an email and I can get them off to you.

Best wishes
Ian

 

[Captain Kernow]

Hi Mike,

Sorry to hear of your woes with the 51XX. I salute you for taking it on in the first place - I'd be (more than) tempted to go for the Hornby one these days, plus the Brassmasters EasyChas!

I've had interminable problems with some chassis builds in the past, the most recent one was a Nu Cast Partners chassis kit for the Cotswold 16XX kit, albeit in OO. The kit is perfection itself (as you would imagine something that has come through the hands of Justin Newitt) and should have gone together without much trouble, but I just couldn't get it to run smoothly. It suffered more than one dismantling and rebuilding, as I recall (I was building it with single-beam compensation). In the end, the problem was traced not to the chassis or my method of building it, but to a faulty Markits wheelset, which was not quartered properly when assembled (something that should be impossible, one might have thought).

The point I am making here is that before I discovered the problem with the wheelset, I had decided to cut my losses and begin the chassis again from scratch - I had another Nu Cast Partners chassis kit in stock, which I was going to use for a Model Rail-Rapido 16XX, but the difficulties in going down that route is another story... I just felt that my previous bodgery may have somehow compromised the original chassis components, so these were put to one side, to be properly cleaned up another day and a fresh start made.

I don't know how easy it would be to get hold of replacement Finney chassis components, should all other methods not yield fruit, but I think Comet do a chassis kit that might serve?

 

[Mike Garwood]

So the problem is the wheels & the overlays. Gibson wheels have a very large boss on their back. And the overlay just adds to the clearance problem. Looking back, I should have left the overlay off...you can't see any of the detail once it's painted anyway. I know it's only a sliver but it all adds up. I had filled some of the boss off the wheels in order to make the B-T-B gauge. This comes with a penalty of grip on the axle, as it is I may well have to order more wheels from Colin.
After the wheels had started to rotate on the chassis, the paint on the bolt heads had already started to be rubbed and in some places was already off. This is why I've taken the decision to strip and re-build.

My thanks to Ian (Bulldog3444) for his kind offer and this seems to me to be a good way forward. I just hope that the heat applied will not affect the chassis sides and the horn blocks. Some carefully placed heat sinks should take care of that.

So while the EM spacers are in transit, I shall have to find something else to do. I can't face putting the lining on the body. I fear for the model if it went sideways.

Having sorted my 8f and I will be in full chassis building mode, it would be logical to also strip the County chassis and make a start on that. Every cloud and all that...

Thank you Ian, ebay will have to wait for another day .

Stay safe

Mike

 

[Mike Garwood]

Without messing about I have dropped the wheels out.



I decided to cut the existing spacers in half. Pointless in saving them.



My wife had bought me a new wired Dremmel drill for Xmas, up till now I'd used a re-chargeable, but after a number of years work, the battery doesn't hold it's charge.



Bit of cleaning up to do. It didn't take as long as I feared and I did't need to use my Weller 100w iron - thank goodness...stuff gets really hot quickly with that fella! This also means I can correct the error I made with the brake hangers being the wring sized wire.

The County now beckons for the same treatment.

Stay safe

Mike

 

[Phil O]

Mike,

If you have a lathe, you could remove the rear bosses on AG wheels, I have had to do that on a couple of locos, to get enough clearance.

 

[Mike Garwood]

The new EM sized frames arrived sometime back - thanks again Ian (Bulldog3444) - but life has away of getting in the way of modeling at the moment. Fortunately, I had a couple of spare hours on Monday to start the re-build of the chassis.

Out with the red box - Avonside chassis jig. I sometimes wonder what on earth I used to do before I invested in one of these. My club has a Hobby Holidays jig (somewhere) but the Avonside allows more to be done and in a more engineered way. It's such a shame that these useful jigs have passed away.
Anyway, enough melancholy, first thing was to re-seat the bearings. This meant taking the wheels off for a third time and consequently I felt it prudent to order a second set from Gibsons. These arrived this morning. Having got the bearings back into their original hornblocks I soldered the dummy springs into place - these hold the bearings in the hornblock. I'd cleaned up the chassis sides earlier.

Next was to try a dry run with the new spacers, to make sure they fitted properly and that there would be no nasty surprises once the iron had been turned on. Next was to fit the chassis on the jig. I had reasoned that as there was no side play in the bearings and their hornblocks that using the bearings to align everything would be a good idea. I made sure that the bearings were able to slide up and down and did not stick.



I've yet to remove the fins from the rear of the chassis, I have had a few ideas how to overcome the amount of heat that'll be needed to remove this.

Flipped the chassis over and soldered the other side in.



The chassis is square and doesn't wobble on a flat surface, it's had a good scrub to get rid of the flux. It does need a new paint job though. There are a few jobs left to do which will mean drilling a few holes to seat the compensation beam and re-ream the holes for the brakes.

After the chassis had dried I re-tried it on the jig - just to make sure - and it slides and fits without any sign of a bind...so that's got to be good. The chassis now measures 15.7 mm across the chassis sides, before with the P4 spacers it measured 16.9 mm. I'm far more optimistic that this is going to be a runner.

I've also had some more thoughts on the radial truck and have scrapped my original approach - more of that in another post.

It's my Grandson's third birthday tomorrow, so Happy Birthday Harry. Harry is an avid steam fan, his favorite place to be taken is to Perrygrove narrow gauge railway in the Forest of Dean and no I'm not exaggerating - he even has his own annual pass. Paw Patrol comes a very close second! So it was a very strange request from him for his presents - the new Thomas sets, running on track and completely controllable. I'm like a dog with 2 tails!! Long may his enthusiasm continue.

Stay safe

Mike

 

[mswjr]

Mike, I live near the little railway here in glos, You and your grandson need to visit again at the end of august, As perrgove have a gala about that time and on the same day Alan keef ( builders of narrow gauge locomotives ) have an open day, It is a great day out and you will both love it.
Garry

 

[Mike Garwood]

Mike, I live near the little railway here in glos, You and your grandson need to visit again at the end of august, As perrgove have a gala about that time and on the same day Alan keef ( builders of narrow gauge locomotives ) have an open day, It is a great day out and you will both love it.
Garry

Garry
There’s a lot of reconstruction going on at Perrygrove. The kitchen and cafe are having some attention. We usually go about once a week - but it’s only open weekends till the renovation has been completed.
The best thing about Perrygrove is that all the drivers chat to Harry.
I shall put a note in my diary for the event.

Many thanks

Mike