Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Simon,
I have at least three to build at some point so I would appreciate you posting them somewhere.
7mm Mickoo's Commercial Workbench
- Thread starter mickoo
- Start date
I have at least three to build at some point so I would appreciate you posting them somewhere.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
The new printer (Saturn 2 8K) arrived last week and it's taken a few days to dial it in, but I'm happy with it so far, I took the early bird discount offer and air mail shipping so they're not many of these out there yet.
The detail is staggering, it kicks the Form 3 out of the park and that's on an even 50 micron test basis, at 30 it's way ahead and 20 microns (if you can stand the time hit) is perfect. The only down side is that the AA function appears not to be working; numerous tests and slicers, settings and running around in the community reveals it might not be enabled on the machine, so I've reached out to Elegoo tech for support.
I didn't have AA on the Form 3 so the lack of it, whilst very disappointing (as it was the sole reason I went back to a LED based machine) isn't too much of a factor; I've a broad background using the Form to orientate to reduce layering to acceptable limits. It's not unknown for Mono screen machines to struggle with AA even when it's perfect, so any extra Elegoo can find or enable will be a bonus. I'm sure there will be a firmware update or workarounds once the machine becomes more available in the community.
The fun part, revised control desks for the EM2 (more detail added), pantograph retraction cylinders, K3 smokebox door. The EM2 parts were printed at 50 microns, the smoke box door at 30 microns as the domed surface is very prone to layering, they're called voxel lines it would appear.
None of these have been cured so are still a little soft/tacky, hence the dirt sticking to them, they've also not been post processed, in fact the K3 door was only born an hour ago.
Resin is Siraya Tech Fast Navy Grey.
The detail is staggering, it kicks the Form 3 out of the park and that's on an even 50 micron test basis, at 30 it's way ahead and 20 microns (if you can stand the time hit) is perfect. The only down side is that the AA function appears not to be working; numerous tests and slicers, settings and running around in the community reveals it might not be enabled on the machine, so I've reached out to Elegoo tech for support.
I didn't have AA on the Form 3 so the lack of it, whilst very disappointing (as it was the sole reason I went back to a LED based machine) isn't too much of a factor; I've a broad background using the Form to orientate to reduce layering to acceptable limits. It's not unknown for Mono screen machines to struggle with AA even when it's perfect, so any extra Elegoo can find or enable will be a bonus. I'm sure there will be a firmware update or workarounds once the machine becomes more available in the community.
The fun part, revised control desks for the EM2 (more detail added), pantograph retraction cylinders, K3 smokebox door. The EM2 parts were printed at 50 microns, the smoke box door at 30 microns as the domed surface is very prone to layering, they're called voxel lines it would appear.
None of these have been cured so are still a little soft/tacky, hence the dirt sticking to them, they've also not been post processed, in fact the K3 door was only born an hour ago.
Resin is Siraya Tech Fast Navy Grey.
michael080
Western Thunderer
very interesting!
I can use a Form3 at work and have been thinking for some time to get a printer at home.
Can you compare the software for both printers? Preform is a very comfortable, but sometimes surprisingly stupid software.
I have seen that the Saturn has a activated carbon cartridge to keep the odor on a living room level. Is that working effectively?
cheers,
Michael
I can use a Form3 at work and have been thinking for some time to get a printer at home.
Can you compare the software for both printers? Preform is a very comfortable, but sometimes surprisingly stupid software.
I have seen that the Saturn has a activated carbon cartridge to keep the odor on a living room level. Is that working effectively?
cheers,
Michael
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Do you need another
only 15 months old, nice and clean, free brand new VAT thrown in.Preform is actually quite nice, you don't have to worry about settings other than where you're going to place the supports, it does struggle to place supports when it has to link between two parts of the model, as opposed to the model and the build plate. You also have no choice to edit the support ones it's placed.
I use Chitubox as it's something I got to know well with the previous hobby LED driven machine, sometimes I think it has too many parameters to work with. It's advantage is more control over the supports and where you put the touch points and the ability afterward to move them to a better place.
I did struggle previously with settings, but the break away for a few years and more community knowledge help sheets have made it easier this time around; it helps if you understand exactly what you're changing and why. I've been able to fine tune this one very quickly and got good results from about the third print to be fair.
I've also tried Lychee, I can't get on with it, it's the user GUI that befuddles me, I only used it to check the AA issue as initial thoughts were slicer driven. Some people love it and hate Chitubox, I just prefer Chitu, probably due to me previous exposure.
Yes there is a carbon cartridge filter and it's USB driven, plug and play, no idea on the smell as I have no sense of smell. No one else in the house has complained about the smell and my study is just off the lounge with the door open 90% of the time. They have complained before with the hobby printer I used to use and some of the resins I tried, in fairness no one ever complained about the Form either, maybe it does smell but not offensively.
Hope that helps
Mick D
SimonT
Western Thunderer
Michael,
I cannot cpmpare the two printers but I'm a Form 3 user having started as a Kickstarter with the Form 1. Yes, Preform can be exasperating. I put the latest software update on and it immediately required a firmware update. I launched the update and nothing happened. Tried again with the same result. Full reboots to all the machines gave the same result; back to previous version. However, I think some bits are very good.
The main problem is that Formalabs have gone complete captalist and don't want to talk/listen to the customers and their own QA is poor. Mick's machine is poor. My first Form 3 was similar but then suffered a complete power failure. The replacement does everything I expected and prints faces that don't need any finishing. The biggest handicap is that of all SLA machines and the 'soggy' face where the supports attach.
BTW, I don't get any smells from the Form cartridge system for the resin.
Simon
I cannot cpmpare the two printers but I'm a Form 3 user having started as a Kickstarter with the Form 1. Yes, Preform can be exasperating. I put the latest software update on and it immediately required a firmware update. I launched the update and nothing happened. Tried again with the same result. Full reboots to all the machines gave the same result; back to previous version. However, I think some bits are very good.
The main problem is that Formalabs have gone complete captalist and don't want to talk/listen to the customers and their own QA is poor. Mick's machine is poor. My first Form 3 was similar but then suffered a complete power failure. The replacement does everything I expected and prints faces that don't need any finishing. The biggest handicap is that of all SLA machines and the 'soggy' face where the supports attach.
BTW, I don't get any smells from the Form cartridge system for the resin.
Simon
mickoo
Western Thunderer
I'm not so sure my machine is poor, it has turned out some outstanding prints, a lot of them commercial with happy returning customers.
Comparing my current prints with Simon's originals and his first machine was really bad, with his new machine I think he has the edge. I do get better prints if I clean the base of the vat, the laser head rubs along the bottom of the vat FEP and on mine it builds up streaks of hardened dust, a bit like the stuff you get on the bottom of PC mouse supports.
But, it has been hard work and my biggest bug bear is that I expected more for the price tag, the lack of AA pi55ed me off no end and that I suspect has clouded my judgement and feelings toward the machine and frankly left a bad after taste.
To be brutally honest and heart on sleeve, I expected injection moulded quality for the price tag and to be fair that was probably a lofty expectation from a 50 micron machine.
Preform updates are laughable sometimes, they often make things worse than better; the trick is to get a decent base firmware update that works and hold it in reserve, try the new one and if pants, roll back and wait for the next update. I found 3.23.0 very good and have stuck with it ever since, I think there are quite a few updates since then, I've not tried them, I really should as they may be chipping away at little niggles in the back ground.
They did an update a while back that made a significant improvement on the surface quality of my prints, it wasn't mentioned in their blurb but I noticed a distinct improvement. They also changed their support tips to rectangular rather than spherical, that made a huge difference to getting the parts off the support structure and reduces the amount of sludge (soggy face) on the faces closest to the build plate.
The Saturn 2 has better surface quality than the Form (it's to be expected really as it's a 25 micron machine so direct comparisons are unfair) but the rear side (soggy face) is really dire
, what it gives with one hand it taketh away in spades with the other.
Eitherway, the Form is retired, it'll get stripped out, cleaned wrapped up, I'll try and pass it on to someone in the used Form user groups, you'll never get top $$ for it but if it just pays for a Phrozen Mighty 8K then I'll be happy, the rest of the cost I'll write off.
If not, the bin monster is always hungry.
Comparing my current prints with Simon's originals and his first machine was really bad, with his new machine I think he has the edge. I do get better prints if I clean the base of the vat, the laser head rubs along the bottom of the vat FEP and on mine it builds up streaks of hardened dust, a bit like the stuff you get on the bottom of PC mouse supports.
But, it has been hard work and my biggest bug bear is that I expected more for the price tag, the lack of AA pi55ed me off no end and that I suspect has clouded my judgement and feelings toward the machine and frankly left a bad after taste.
To be brutally honest and heart on sleeve, I expected injection moulded quality for the price tag and to be fair that was probably a lofty expectation from a 50 micron machine.
Preform updates are laughable sometimes, they often make things worse than better; the trick is to get a decent base firmware update that works and hold it in reserve, try the new one and if pants, roll back and wait for the next update. I found 3.23.0 very good and have stuck with it ever since, I think there are quite a few updates since then, I've not tried them, I really should as they may be chipping away at little niggles in the back ground.
They did an update a while back that made a significant improvement on the surface quality of my prints, it wasn't mentioned in their blurb but I noticed a distinct improvement. They also changed their support tips to rectangular rather than spherical, that made a huge difference to getting the parts off the support structure and reduces the amount of sludge (soggy face) on the faces closest to the build plate.
The Saturn 2 has better surface quality than the Form (it's to be expected really as it's a 25 micron machine so direct comparisons are unfair) but the rear side (soggy face) is really dire
, what it gives with one hand it taketh away in spades with the other.Eitherway, the Form is retired, it'll get stripped out, cleaned wrapped up, I'll try and pass it on to someone in the used Form user groups, you'll never get top $$ for it but if it just pays for a Phrozen Mighty 8K then I'll be happy, the rest of the cost I'll write off.
If not, the bin monster is always hungry.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Finally got around to finishing the Finney7 Duke of Cornwall, I'm no GWR fan, but I doff my cap to the sheer elegance of their Victorian engines.
It'll now get a big run in for at least a day to ease up the inside motion, then the DCC chip will go in, set up and test before packing up for collection.
Whilst it's running in I'll try and find the lost small whistle, or probably quicker, turn up a new one then finish the front hook for fitting.
It'll now get a big run in for at least a day to ease up the inside motion, then the DCC chip will go in, set up and test before packing up for collection.
Whilst it's running in I'll try and find the lost small whistle, or probably quicker, turn up a new one then finish the front hook for fitting.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Refresher update on the MOK King Arthur back from repair paint last week. It already has DCC fitted but needs tweaking and has already been mechanically run in. Glazing, hoses, couplings and coal to complete.
The smokebox door needs some bright work chromed and the rest of the bright pipework needs a clear lacquer to stop it tarnishing.
I wasn't happy with the original 3D printed tool boxes, so new ones from the spanky new 25 micron printer will be added shortly.
This'll be followed very shortly by the Hall and Royal Scot rebuilds which were also collected from paint last week.
The smokebox door needs some bright work chromed and the rest of the bright pipework needs a clear lacquer to stop it tarnishing.
I wasn't happy with the original 3D printed tool boxes, so new ones from the spanky new 25 micron printer will be added shortly.
This'll be followed very shortly by the Hall and Royal Scot rebuilds which were also collected from paint last week.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Mick
No, no idea, so put us out of misery please !
Richard
No, no idea, so put us out of misery please !
Richard
mickoo
Western Thunderer
It's in the printer, should be born in a couple of hours, then I'll fit it and take some photos and ya'll go ahhh.
It'll probably need some revisions but I think the concept is workable.
MD
Compton castle
Western Thunderer
Looks like one of the clip brackets I use to use when attaching plinths to the underside of cabinets on a fitted kitchen!
Some how I don’t think it’s one of those !
michael080
Western Thunderer
A nose clip?
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Close but I didn't expect anyone to guess right to be honest, it's not the sort of thing that jumps to the front of ones mind.
Whilst trying to install DCC in the Duke it struck me what a faff it is finding somewhere to fit the chip and stay alive, usually in the boiler, which makes a birds nest of wires as they need to be long enough to get the top off before you can extract or disconnect; then you have to hide them and pray they don't get trapped when the body is fitted.
I bounced around a metal plate with brackets to hold the items but where and how to secure, then it occurred that I could 3D print a bracket to hold the items, that thought was followed very quickly by making a clip on unit for the motor.
So without further ado, a 3D printed clip to fit a Maxon 6W motor and hold a Loksound V5, there's only just enough room to be fair, but then that's all you really need. Mk II is tweaked to thin some faces to give a bit more room between the clip and cab front.
I'd like to add a back pack type carrier for the stay alive, but space precludes this as does an extension on top over the motor, so I'm currently not sure where the stay alive is going to reside right now.
Whilst trying to install DCC in the Duke it struck me what a faff it is finding somewhere to fit the chip and stay alive, usually in the boiler, which makes a birds nest of wires as they need to be long enough to get the top off before you can extract or disconnect; then you have to hide them and pray they don't get trapped when the body is fitted.
I bounced around a metal plate with brackets to hold the items but where and how to secure, then it occurred that I could 3D print a bracket to hold the items, that thought was followed very quickly by making a clip on unit for the motor.
So without further ado, a 3D printed clip to fit a Maxon 6W motor and hold a Loksound V5, there's only just enough room to be fair, but then that's all you really need. Mk II is tweaked to thin some faces to give a bit more room between the clip and cab front.
I'd like to add a back pack type carrier for the stay alive, but space precludes this as does an extension on top over the motor, so I'm currently not sure where the stay alive is going to reside right now.
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