LMS 12T Glass Truck - MMP Kit

[djparkins]

That's where I went wrong then, I was reading the instructions. There was nothing in there about drilling holes and I was just merrily punching half etched holes through as rivets. It wasn't a problem and soon sorted.

The location holes are shown on the assembly drawing. You just have to drill them out for the reasons mentioned above. I thought about mentioning them in the assembly text but decided instead to mention them on the assembly drawing. You stated that there were no locations given for the holes for the handrails. This is just not true and you should have the good grace to accept that you made an innacurate statement.

I think it is important that these online builds do not develop into some self-ego feed for the builder [who is of course always right] and set against the manufacturer [who we all know is always in the wrong]

 

[adrian]

Agreed I got it wrong which is what I was under the impression I had said. There was a dimple in the etchings and I got carried away and merrily pushed through all of the marks which I thought were rivets. Although in my defence the instructions do say

"the bottom line is trust us. Push through the rivets whether they be on the front of a part, or on the back and all will be apparent as assembly proceeds."

Now unfortunately I was unable to read the drawing correctly, I thought the red circles were marking rivet detail to punch out. If it was an engineering drawing rather than an assembly drawing then I would have expected it to dimension the hole with a diameter, which would indicate the size of drill required, this might be a useful addition to the drawing just to make it clear which dimple needs drilling out.





Again I agree there is an issue about on line builds developing into ego trips however there is also the flip side of that coin where on line builds verge on sycophancy. I'm optimistic enough to believe that most people are intelligent enough to work out which are which and decide for themselves the relative merits, but that's a whole new thread for that discussion.

I hope I've managed to strike an appropriate balance, I've built the kit as I found it, reported a couple of issues and modifications which I hope will be useful to someone.

 

[S7BcSR]

The location holes are shown on the assembly drawing. You just have to drill them out for the reasons mentioned above. I thought about mentioning them in the assembly text but decided instead to mention them on the assembly drawing. You stated that there were no locations given for the holes for the handrails. This is just not true and you should have the good grace to accept that you made an innacurate statement.

I think it is important that these online builds do not develop into some self-ego feed for the builder [who is of course always right] and set against the manufacturer [who we all know is always in the wrong]

David
I think your last statement is a bit harsh. After all Adrian said what he found, read your follow up comments and admitted he went wrong by only reading the instructions and not looking at the drawings. You admitted that there were no comments in the instructions and I believe Adrian has responded correctly.
I think this whole thread has been a very balanced report and just the type that WT is so useful for. Reading this threat would not put me off building this kit in any way as, in my opinion, there was no self-ego about it at all. At the same time there was no criticism of the manufacturer, just comments about what he did (re going off instruction) and he found (re the handrail). I was certainly pleased to see your various interjections throughout the build, it semed to me to be a big help.

Rob

ps I haven't built one of your kits yet and so am not commenting on the build, just your reaction.

 

[djparkins]

David
I think your last statement is a bit harsh. After all Adrian said what he found, read your follow up comments and admitted he went wrong by only reading the instructions and not looking at the drawings. You admitted that there were no comments in the instructions and I believe Adrian has responded correctly.
I think this whole thread has been a very balanced report and just the type that WT is so useful for. Reading this threat would not put me off building this kit in any way as, in my opinion, there was no self-ego about it at all. At the same time there was no criticism of the manufacturer, just comments about what he did (re going off instruction) and he found (re the handrail). I was certainly pleased to see your various interjections throughout the build, it semed to me to be a big help.

Rob

ps I haven't built one of your kits yet and so am not commenting on the build, just your reaction.

Rob,

I don't think it is harsh as a general comment at all and that part of my post is not specifically aimed at Adrian. I get a totally opposite impression of this thread to you though- something more like - Bu**3r me - what does the guy expect for £46.20!

As regards the last part of my post that you really think is harsh - just read online builds generally - not just on here but elsewhere and of almost all manufacturers' kits. They are often written in a smart alek style and if anything goes wrong or is found difficult it is pretty well always down to the kit manufacturer, rather than the builder over-estimating his own abilities or thinking 'maybe I need to work to improve my modelling skill levels.

You may disagree but that is my impression - and there are certainly enough of these online builds around now to form an impression! Its a general observation as I say - but I am as entitled to my view as you are.

DJP

 

[adrian]

I get a totally opposite impression of this thread to you though- something more like - Bu**3r me - what does the guy expect for £46.20!

I'm sorry to hear you seem to have such a jaundiced view of the build, that was not the intention. I have tried to be fair and balanced throughout and pointed out bits and pieces where I thought it might help others in building the kit. The issue with the handrail holes, I've said I got it wrong, it wasn't a problem and it's sorted. If there is anything else where it is factually incorrect then please point it out to me and I'll be more than happy to clarify. Otherwise I believe what I've posted would be a fair description of what anyone else building the kit would find, but do correct me if I'm wrong.

As regards the last part of my post that you really think is harsh - just read online builds generally - not just on here but elsewhere and of almost all manufacturers' kits. They are often written in a smart alek style and if anything goes wrong or is found difficult it is pretty well always down to the kit manufacturer, rather than the builder over-estimating his own abilities or thinking 'maybe I need to work to improve my modelling skill levels.

You may disagree but that is my impression - and there are certainly enough of these online builds around now to form an impression! Its a general observation as I say - but I am as entitled to my view as you are.

DJP

To be fair though harsh kit reviews and smart alek styles are not limited to on line builds. You just have to read the Gauge O Gazette to see varying standards of build reports, plenty written well before the internet was even "invented" so it's nothing new under the sun. Even some of the recent gazettes have had some rather harsh build reports, however like I said earlier most people are intelligent enough to realise the merit of each report and some of the subsequent letters supporting the manufacturer was testament to that. At the end of the day we all choose to see want we want to see and judge accordingly.

So is it a good kit? Yes definitely one of the better ones. Would I recommend it? Yes without a doubt. Hopefully this build thread will help clarify a few of the build steps for people if they choose to look at it. If you see that as a harsh review then that's your prerogative, because as you say you are entitled to your own view, and I'll stand by my view that it's a fair and balanced review.

Best wishes

Adrian

 

[S7BcSR]

Rob,

As regards the last part of my post that you really think is harsh - just read online builds generally - not just on here but elsewhere and of almost all manufacturers' kits. They are often written in a smart alek style and if anything goes wrong or is found difficult it is pretty well always down to the kit manufacturer, rather than the builder over-estimating his own abilities or thinking 'maybe I need to work to improve my modelling skill levels.

DJP

David
I would partially agree with you regarding many forums and that is why I don't read other forums these days.

However I have found that reviews/builds on WT are, generally, written by more than competent modellers who don't have an axe to grind and are worth reading before putting specific kits together. And as Adrian has said it is very easy for anyone with half a mind to spot the ones that are done with anything other than helpful information in them.
You may well be right but I felt that in this specific case you chose the wrong modeller to have a go at and I find it amazing that you feel the way you do about this particular thread. I feel that this has been helpful to us mere mortals who just put the kits together, we can all learn from it.

I have experienced a similar situation to Adrian but with a loco kit from a well regarded manufacturer where there was nothing written about fitting of injectors in the instructions but a comment was made on the diagram which I wrongly interpreted because of all the pictures I had it appeared that I needed to cut off part of the frame. I certainly don't blame the manufacturer for my error (even though the comment on the diagram was open to interpretation) but I would certainly feel justified in making a warning comment on here so that some other modeller doesn't make the same mistake that I did. I think Adrian's comments were more of a warning comment than a criticism.

But as you say I think we will agree to differ on this one.

Rob

 

[adrian]

Latest update - a few more bits were painted and then assembled, wheels, buffers, couplings etc. Despite the tight clearances from the back of the wheels to the well tank it does actually roll quite nicely - nothings catching anyway. It was then chopping and gluing lots of strip wood to make the couple of packing cases.

So this is the current state.


The shackles are just loose at the moment, there is some nice thread supplied in the kit but the wagon and packing cases need weathering before I tie it all down. So the only other thing missing at the moment is transfers and I'm struggling to find any suitable. Any suggestions where I might obtain transfers for this wagon gratefully received.

 

[AJC]

What a very fine bit of work Adrian. A nice unusual prototype. I'm not sure about transfers - 7mm isn't my balliwick really - but presumably, given your standard 4 tank, you're planning on giving this BR livery? How about the HMRS set for BR revenue stock? To be quite honest, I have the 4mm version and don't rate it at all for a variety of reasons but it does have enough lettering for basic needs and is available in 7mm apparently.

Just one other question. Would these packing cases actually get reused? If not, why weather them?

Adam

 

[Dog Star]

Might the destination be Healing's Mill?

 

[djparkins]

Might the destination be Healing's Mill?

Well, sadly it will no longer be St. Helens!

 

[Dog Star]

Apologies, might be a bit obscure... Healing's Mill in Tewkesbury - just thought that this might be the first item for a pending layout.

 

[adrian]

What a very fine bit of work Adrian.

Just one other question. Would these packing cases actually get reused? If not, why weather them?

Cheers - thanks for the feedback. As for the packing cases then the photo's in the LMS wagon book seems to indicate that they would be reused. One wagon has fairly new packing cases and the others showing fairly well worn and battered cases. At the very least they need the pin marks where the nails/screws have been put in and some measure of weathering will be needed.

Apologies, might be a bit obscure... Healing's Mill in Tewkesbury - just thought that this might be the first item for a pending layout.

Not the first item actually, I'm slowly accumulating a few bits and pieces so at some point it time then probably yes. Although I'm still trying to figure out how to work a siphon F into scenario.

 

[Ressaldar]

So the only other thing missing at the moment is transfers and I'm struggling to find any suitable. Any suggestions where I might obtain transfers for this wagon gratefully received.

Hi Adrian,

John Isherwood at Cambridge Custom Transfers perhaps?

cheers

Mike

 

[adrian]

Hi Adrian,

John Isherwood at Cambridge Custom Transfers perhaps?

Thanks for that - I had taken a quick look through his lists to see if anything was available but I couldn't spot any. I'll try a direct query with him to see if he can help.

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Adrian,

as an alternative, you could try John Peck at Precision Decals, you might be asked for a photo or the like, but he is good for '1 offs'

cheers

Mike

 

[alcazar]

I recently e-mailed him about getting a couple of sets for the ex WR PWM locos, but have had no reply, even after a month.

 

[adrian]

To resurrect a long dormant thread! A recent discussion within WT about getting transfers commissioned made me return to this kit. As ever got 95% finished but never got round to completing the last 5% as other projects always are more enticing. Anyway I decided I had to sort out some transfers for this wagon and as nothing is available off the shelf so started to look at getting some commissioned. However before I did that I decided to see if I could make my own.

Printing white writing is obviously difficult with an inkjet printer but as it is white writing on a black panel I thought I would see what was possible using white inkjet transfer paper, i.e. printing the black panel on the white paper. With a little experimentation on the font size I was pleasantly surprised as what could be achieved - sufficient that whilst doing the transfers for the 2mm stuff I fitted these to the wagon. The only difficulty was the black pigmentation didn't adhere that well just at the edges, I painted some lacquer over before cutting them out but there is a faint showing of white around the edge. I dare say it'll disappear when it gets weathered. I also applied a thin black wash to tone down the packing crates. So one more for the satin varnish later in the week then the load needs roping down.

 

[jamiepage]

I like that a lot. Not only a high standard kit, very well made, but the combination of a fairly open structured metal wagon and the natural wood packing cases makes a very attractive model.

 

[AJC]

The lettering has really brought that to life, as will weathering, of course.

Adam