Finescale - of a sort?!
- Thread starter Peter Insole
- Start date
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Thanks Michael, you are quite right! I found myself ruefully thinking that solid rod would have been so much easier to bend, even while I was grappling with the hollow stuff on the workbench yesterday!
The only reason why I chose the awkward material in the first place was a combination of misplaced notions of recycling - and having a load of it already "in stock"!
Thanks too class27 for your suggestion and most kind offer! However, the tube I'm using is 3/16" - and that turns out to be oversize (albeit, only for the pressure gauge and gauge glass blow down pipes) on the prototype. Its looks as if 1/8'' - (or the nearest metric equivalent) of either tube or rod would be the closest to scale appearance in the end!
I do need to order some brass rod (in a couple of sizes) to make the gauge isolating cock (globe valve) and a few other bits and bobs - so I might as well add a cut length of copper at the same time!
How much more reckless can I get eh?!!
Pete.
The only reason why I chose the awkward material in the first place was a combination of misplaced notions of recycling - and having a load of it already "in stock"!
Thanks too class27 for your suggestion and most kind offer! However, the tube I'm using is 3/16" - and that turns out to be oversize (albeit, only for the pressure gauge and gauge glass blow down pipes) on the prototype. Its looks as if 1/8'' - (or the nearest metric equivalent) of either tube or rod would be the closest to scale appearance in the end!
I do need to order some brass rod (in a couple of sizes) to make the gauge isolating cock (globe valve) and a few other bits and bobs - so I might as well add a cut length of copper at the same time!
How much more reckless can I get eh?!!
Pete.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Postscript to the previous post:
I have been searching for both 1/8" copper tube and round bar, and as far as pricing is concerned, it would seem to be a case of "think of a number - any number will do"! The variations for the same specification of material is both surprising and utterly confusing for me!
A thick walled, 1/8 inch steam pipe, specifically marketed for Mamod engines, and conveniently available in a minimum of 12" lengths seems to be the cheapest that I have found so far - and certainly less than solid round bar - so is perhaps the way I will go?!
Pete.
I have been searching for both 1/8" copper tube and round bar, and as far as pricing is concerned, it would seem to be a case of "think of a number - any number will do"! The variations for the same specification of material is both surprising and utterly confusing for me!
A thick walled, 1/8 inch steam pipe, specifically marketed for Mamod engines, and conveniently available in a minimum of 12" lengths seems to be the cheapest that I have found so far - and certainly less than solid round bar - so is perhaps the way I will go?!
Pete.
michael mott
Western Thunderer
Pete if you can fill the 1/8 inch tube with some styrene you will be able to bend a very tight curve. You can see an example of this on the brass engine I made in the thread with the drill I posted recently.
Michael
Michael
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Thank you Michael for that very useful tip, that sounds like a great idea.
I do take some comfort knowing that when I use a smaller section of tube I should have less difficulty than trying to bend a half circle (at a radius that was relative to the proportions of the pressure gauge) in an excess diameter pipe! I suppose it is little wonder that I had problems attempting to force that 3/16ths tube, almost to it's limit, and into a scaled curve that it was never really designed for?!
Pete.
I do take some comfort knowing that when I use a smaller section of tube I should have less difficulty than trying to bend a half circle (at a radius that was relative to the proportions of the pressure gauge) in an excess diameter pipe! I suppose it is little wonder that I had problems attempting to force that 3/16ths tube, almost to it's limit, and into a scaled curve that it was never really designed for?!
Pete.
Peter Insole
Western Thunderer
Oh dear, I am perhaps running too many separate threads on here, and that coupled with my own personal health issues has meant this particular subject has been forgotten for a while!
There had been some progress - although much of it has been not such "pretty" repairs, maintenance and modifications to report on - but nonetheless, I apologise for not providing you all with any updates!
There is an old saying that goes along the lines of; we need another holiday to get over the one we just had! For me that was true to some extent, but it was more a case of picking up and bringing something slightly snotty, grotty and spluttery home... so after almost a week, I am only now recovering enough to get fully back on my feet again! I am only mentioning all this because it will have a bearing in the next couple of posts.
It all started oh so stunning, sunny and superb...
The view from the flat, looking straight ahead on the day we arrived!
Not only could we see the glorious Cader range beyond the beautiful Mawddach estuary, with the recently reinstated bridge carrying regular trains thereover again, but also, when looking slightly to the right:
Daily steam workings on the little Fairbourne Railway too! What's not to like eh?!
After that scenic diversion, please come back with me to last December (!) in order to bring the story more up to date:
I did in the end replace the pressure gauge pipe with the 1/8th inch "Mamod" stuff, and was much more satisfied with the result. Having fitted it, I then needed an isolating cock to attach it to the manifold. Therein lay yet another problem...
The above image (taken for my benefit by our Tom) of "Wren" at the NRM reveals something of an unfortunate history - as well as a trap for any potential researchers.
Apart from the injector steam valve body, shown in the foreground and towards bottom left, and one single part of the brake valve, on the opposite side of the cast manifold, NONE of the fittings visible are original, in-service items!
All the various bits, bobs and plumbing in that picture had been cobbled together post "restoration". It was not only the attention of souvenir hunters back in the 1960's while the engine was in storage either - as other vital bits have been subsequently "removed" or otherwise "lost" since it had been prominently displayed in the busy museum foyer!
We are fortunate that some parts are reasonably clear in the general arrangement drawings available - and details can similarly be checked against photos taken in the 1930's... but by no means all! The original pressure gauge isolating cock shows quite well in several shots, so I was happy to continue.
Unlike the NRM example, the genuine article was a notably slender affair that had been designed with a small, heart shaped, "gas tap" type handle, that later had been replaced on all the Horwich engines with a more conventional, lever variety.
I decided to use another one of my recently acquired collection of redundant gas fitting, compression nuts (pretty damned close enough to correct scale) to save some time and effort.
Again, as with the pressure gauge itself, I cut a short section of male thread off an elbow casting, made a plain, but tight fitting stud to fit both the body and the internal bore of the threaded section, and soldered them together.
After my disastrous first attempts at bending tapered brass rod for the gauge glass handles, and despite having gained some experience of "annealing" since then, the next task still filled me with trepidation!
First off was making sure that the tapered end section would fit and rotate nicely in the prepared valve body...
Then the fun really started:
Being tapered along it's entire length, I could not grip any part of the handle in anything other than a pair of pliers at the scrap end with one hand, while applying lots of heat from a gas torch in the other... dropping the glowing red rod into the pot of cold water and then waiting for the object to cool just enough to fish out with bare fingers... slip two lengths of K&S tube over either end... hoping all the time that I had got the inner ends in the right place for the bend... fingers clenched over both tubes, thumbs firmly placed just as close as possible to the bending point... and heave!
It goes really easily at first, but "work hardens" surprisingly quickly! After a couple of dunkings, I started to get a "feel" of when the bar didn't want to move any further! It took a fair number of cycles to finally bring it round to a 90 degree turn though!
In retrospect, I think I might have tried starting the bend a fraction further up the handle from the "shoulder"... but it was a first ever try - and amazingly, I managed not to snap it... so I remain content to leave it well alone now!
Even more so, as I have since discovered a local source of some really nice, reasonably priced brass nuts that are perfect for finishing off all the remaining backhead fittings!
Pete.
There had been some progress - although much of it has been not such "pretty" repairs, maintenance and modifications to report on - but nonetheless, I apologise for not providing you all with any updates!
There is an old saying that goes along the lines of; we need another holiday to get over the one we just had! For me that was true to some extent, but it was more a case of picking up and bringing something slightly snotty, grotty and spluttery home... so after almost a week, I am only now recovering enough to get fully back on my feet again! I am only mentioning all this because it will have a bearing in the next couple of posts.
It all started oh so stunning, sunny and superb...
The view from the flat, looking straight ahead on the day we arrived!
Not only could we see the glorious Cader range beyond the beautiful Mawddach estuary, with the recently reinstated bridge carrying regular trains thereover again, but also, when looking slightly to the right:
Daily steam workings on the little Fairbourne Railway too! What's not to like eh?!
After that scenic diversion, please come back with me to last December (!) in order to bring the story more up to date:
I did in the end replace the pressure gauge pipe with the 1/8th inch "Mamod" stuff, and was much more satisfied with the result. Having fitted it, I then needed an isolating cock to attach it to the manifold. Therein lay yet another problem...
The above image (taken for my benefit by our Tom) of "Wren" at the NRM reveals something of an unfortunate history - as well as a trap for any potential researchers.
Apart from the injector steam valve body, shown in the foreground and towards bottom left, and one single part of the brake valve, on the opposite side of the cast manifold, NONE of the fittings visible are original, in-service items!
All the various bits, bobs and plumbing in that picture had been cobbled together post "restoration". It was not only the attention of souvenir hunters back in the 1960's while the engine was in storage either - as other vital bits have been subsequently "removed" or otherwise "lost" since it had been prominently displayed in the busy museum foyer!
We are fortunate that some parts are reasonably clear in the general arrangement drawings available - and details can similarly be checked against photos taken in the 1930's... but by no means all! The original pressure gauge isolating cock shows quite well in several shots, so I was happy to continue.
Unlike the NRM example, the genuine article was a notably slender affair that had been designed with a small, heart shaped, "gas tap" type handle, that later had been replaced on all the Horwich engines with a more conventional, lever variety.
I decided to use another one of my recently acquired collection of redundant gas fitting, compression nuts (pretty damned close enough to correct scale) to save some time and effort.
Again, as with the pressure gauge itself, I cut a short section of male thread off an elbow casting, made a plain, but tight fitting stud to fit both the body and the internal bore of the threaded section, and soldered them together.
After my disastrous first attempts at bending tapered brass rod for the gauge glass handles, and despite having gained some experience of "annealing" since then, the next task still filled me with trepidation!
First off was making sure that the tapered end section would fit and rotate nicely in the prepared valve body...
Then the fun really started:
Being tapered along it's entire length, I could not grip any part of the handle in anything other than a pair of pliers at the scrap end with one hand, while applying lots of heat from a gas torch in the other... dropping the glowing red rod into the pot of cold water and then waiting for the object to cool just enough to fish out with bare fingers... slip two lengths of K&S tube over either end... hoping all the time that I had got the inner ends in the right place for the bend... fingers clenched over both tubes, thumbs firmly placed just as close as possible to the bending point... and heave!
It goes really easily at first, but "work hardens" surprisingly quickly! After a couple of dunkings, I started to get a "feel" of when the bar didn't want to move any further! It took a fair number of cycles to finally bring it round to a 90 degree turn though!
In retrospect, I think I might have tried starting the bend a fraction further up the handle from the "shoulder"... but it was a first ever try - and amazingly, I managed not to snap it... so I remain content to leave it well alone now!
Even more so, as I have since discovered a local source of some really nice, reasonably priced brass nuts that are perfect for finishing off all the remaining backhead fittings!
Pete.