HO Eine Sekundärbahn

Roger Pound

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Tim,

The Fleischmann connection with Piko was silently acknowledged in that their wagons always included an inter-changeable set of Fleischmann pattern couplings in the box to replace the Marklin pattern fitted as standard - I still have a small quantity of them which I intended to use in a now long abandoned 7mm NG project. You know how it is - you don't dispose of anything that might come in useful - one day ;) .

Roger
 
Tim Hale

Tim Hale

Western Thunderer
At last, some more progress on the layout, the backscenes boards are finally in place, thus saving things falling into the realm of the spiders. SWMBO had the bizarre job of steadying me as I reached across the layout* whilst stood on wooden box, it was a tense hour or so. The boards are nowhere near finished but the overall effect is far better than expected.

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In late June we will return to the supposed location, an opportunity to capture as many images, as possible, of the surrounding scenery, the resulting images will be used to complete the backscenes.

*The far corner is a long(ish) stretch and decidedly challenging, not recommended for those with peripheral balance issues.

Tim
 
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Tim Hale

Tim Hale

Western Thunderer
Hi,
Thanks to the discovery of this blog Merziener Privatbahn I am no longer sure if the layout is heading in the right direction, rather than a headlong rush to complete the task, maybe a rethink is needed? With such a small space, just maybe a series of microdioramas, after all, the journey should be as enjoyable as the destination.

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For example, this is the work of Andreas Rousounelis, whose work is simply an art form, should it be possible to build Pottendorf closer* to this standard?


*a flexible term

Tim
 
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Roger Pound

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Not Jack B said:
For almost forty years, a Bavarian Watercrane in HO has been the ‘Holy Grail’ nevertheless it is an iconic part of a layout that is truly Bavarian.

In the distant past, one of the German magazines published a ‘how to build’ article but it required a machine shop to fabricate the component. Needless to add, no proprietary offering in any form, which is odd as the Bavarian system is rather popular in HO but not popular with the smaller manufacturers of detail components.

This is a copy of Bw Kempten’s and is now a 3D printed offering, at a ferociously expensive cost, more than a small loco. When is it time to stop……?

Tim
Click to expand...
I agree wholeheartedly, Tim. Whilst it is a nice rendering, the complexity of the design may possibly reflect the need for a higher cost. Much of the hobby is rapidly becoming over-priced in my opinion from line-side accessories to locomotives and all things between.

It seems that the accountants now hold the reins - a late friend of mine was very fond of saying that particular profession seemed to think "Double the price, double the profit."

I couldn't possibly comment!

Roger .
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
Be a pretty poor accountant that thought that!

if profit = price - cost, and you increase (double) the price, the extra profit is equal to the extra price.

Much more than double, as the cost didn’t change!
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
As far as prices are concerned you have to remember that costs have increased enormously over the last year for manufacturers, both of kits and RTR. In fact brass etches have increased by around 50% and nickel silver etches by between 79% and 95% depending on the size and thickness of the etch. It's difficult to function without passing at least these costs on. Then consider the return. The return has to be worth the effort so although I don't suggest that anyone would consider a 50% to 90% price increase the balance is a fine one.

I've also worked with some excellent accountants and some really bad ones. The good accountants will make a business thrive as they study to understand what they are working with. Those who simply follow "rules" tend to do much less well and have a tendency to try to pare the product back - in our market let's say, simplistically, changing brass castings to white metal. Good accountants also recognise the importance of investment and in our hobby that means looking at and incorporating things like 3D printing and how and when it's appropriate and keeping up with the market. Many large companies have failed because they didn't do that and assumed that a good product would continue to sell without considering the way technology is changing.

I strongly believe that there will always be a market for a well produced product at the right price, and that's far from the cheapest. In fact remember that "cheap" and "inexpensive" are two entirely different descriptors. It's sad, and as been debated many times previously in these columns, that people entering this hobby find the cheap kits most attractive - after all, why pay twice as much for the same thing? But, of course, we know they're not the same thing. When moving up to 7mm I, personally, was so lucky to decide on a Connoisseur kit - inexpensive and with Jim's great customer service to back it up. Perhaps not the most detailed of kits but they go together really well.

At the end of the day please remember that most of our manufacturers are small businesses who are in the market because they are themselves enthusiasts.

Brian
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
Wholly agree, Brian.

trouble is Rob’s tongue in cheek comment may well be true in discretionary purchases like hobbies, nobody needs to buy models, we do because we want to, and I guess most of us have very real budget limits to which we must adhere for practical (and/or domestic harmony) purposes.

I don’t believe that in real terms the hobby in general has become overpriced - in value terms, an 00 loco might now cost several times what it did when I was an impecunious kid with my nose pressed against the toy shop window, but the quality of finish, and of running, is light years better. That kid couldn’t imagine that a very presentable finescale 0 gauge 0-6-0 tank would be available new, boxed, with accessories for as little as £200 - half a week’s wages at minimum wage - it would probably have cost £200 in 1970! (And been nowhere near as good). Globalisation has its benefits.

The range and quality of models now seems to me to be better than ever. Of course, an obscure detail fitting from a little-modelled railway is unlikely to attract volume manufacturers and Chinese-model pricing, and that’s when things get more expensive, as we are in the domain of specialist small businesses and limited markets, with all the challenges and costs that that implies.

As the man said, you pays yer money…
 
Rob R

Rob R

Western Thunderer
With something like the 3dp water crane it is not the cost of physically producing the item you are paying - in relative terms that is pennies - but the man hours required to draw it/test print/re-draw etc.
If you could team up with like minded souls who have the skills to do the donkey work "in house" then the cost tumbles, otherwise it is unfortunately top dollar/deutschmark/euro to some guy trying to make a living out of it.
 
simond

simond

Western Thunderer
Tim,

forgive me please, I wasn’t trying to justify anything. I was merely philosophising about the costs of our hobby. Rob has summarised it most succinctly from the perspective of the maker.

I wholly agree that €110 appears rather more than steep, as €12.50 seems much more reasonable, but in the final analysis the justification, or not, of the price is a value judgement only the prospective purchaser can make.

Anyway, pleased to see you seem to have a solution.

atb
Simon
 
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Roger Pound

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Tim .

My humble apologies to you for diverting your informative and entertaining thread with what was apparently a poor attempt at ironic humour regarding the ever-increasing prices in out hobby, which seems to have sadly misfired.

Let us now hope it dies away and we can further enjoy your adventures with Pottendorf.

Roger :thumbs:.
 
Joe's Garage

Joe's Garage

Western Thunderer
Hi Tim
I fully agree with your comment....

The most important lessons are ‘small is better’ and an hour spent shunting is worth a whole week doing nothing productive.

Lovely water crane.
All the best
Julian
 
Roger Pound

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
A most delightful picture which reminded me of a journey on a metre gauge line, behind a Jung 0-4-0T . This was in June 1990 when I visited the Selfkantbahn, a preserved line from Gillrath to Shierwaldenrath. This was the only working schmallspurbahn I saw in my several visits over the years. Due to the passage of the years and uncertain health, I am, with great regret, no longer be able to visit Germany again. Thanks be that I have many photos and happy memories of the many times spent in the Rheinland and my late friend Artur Simons.

Thank you for reminding me of those pleasant memories.

Roger.
 
Tim Hale

Tim Hale

Western Thunderer
Not really relevant to the construction of Pottendorf but this photo was found in the ‘Quality Street’ tin that once served as the family photo album. It is the ‘Seekuh’ at Erlangen-Zollhaus, the line ran from Erlangen-Grafenberg through the streets, it took at least two hours with enough time to alight at t’other end. The line closed in the early ‘60s by which time, we had returned home.

Small locos and tiny coaches, what else could you desire?

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Roger Pound

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Totally agree, Tim. I enjoyed my 00 diversion- still do for that matter but I have some HOe and 009 stock* to hand plus second hand is easily and relatively cheaply available. To quote Monty Python - "Say no more!" :)

Roger

* Including an old abandoned basic layout to renew....:thumbs:
 
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