HO Eine Sekundärbahn

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
As far as prices are concerned you have to remember that costs have increased enormously over the last year for manufacturers, both of kits and RTR. In fact brass etches have increased by around 50% and nickel silver etches by between 79% and 95% depending on the size and thickness of the etch. It's difficult to function without passing at least these costs on. Then consider the return. The return has to be worth the effort so although I don't suggest that anyone would consider a 50% to 90% price increase the balance is a fine one.

I've also worked with some excellent accountants and some really bad ones. The good accountants will make a business thrive as they study to understand what they are working with. Those who simply follow "rules" tend to do much less well and have a tendency to try to pare the product back - in our market let's say, simplistically, changing brass castings to white metal. Good accountants also recognise the importance of investment and in our hobby that means looking at and incorporating things like 3D printing and how and when it's appropriate and keeping up with the market. Many large companies have failed because they didn't do that and assumed that a good product would continue to sell without considering the way technology is changing.

I strongly believe that there will always be a market for a well produced product at the right price, and that's far from the cheapest. In fact remember that "cheap" and "inexpensive" are two entirely different descriptors. It's sad, and as been debated many times previously in these columns, that people entering this hobby find the cheap kits most attractive - after all, why pay twice as much for the same thing? But, of course, we know they're not the same thing. When moving up to 7mm I, personally, was so lucky to decide on a Connoisseur kit - inexpensive and with Jim's great customer service to back it up. Perhaps not the most detailed of kits but they go together really well.

At the end of the day please remember that most of our manufacturers are small businesses who are in the market because they are themselves enthusiasts.

Brian
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Wholly agree, Brian.

trouble is Rob’s tongue in cheek comment may well be true in discretionary purchases like hobbies, nobody needs to buy models, we do because we want to, and I guess most of us have very real budget limits to which we must adhere for practical (and/or domestic harmony) purposes.

I don’t believe that in real terms the hobby in general has become overpriced - in value terms, an 00 loco might now cost several times what it did when I was an impecunious kid with my nose pressed against the toy shop window, but the quality of finish, and of running, is light years better. That kid couldn’t imagine that a very presentable finescale 0 gauge 0-6-0 tank would be available new, boxed, with accessories for as little as £200 - half a week’s wages at minimum wage - it would probably have cost £200 in 1970! (And been nowhere near as good). Globalisation has its benefits.

The range and quality of models now seems to me to be better than ever. Of course, an obscure detail fitting from a little-modelled railway is unlikely to attract volume manufacturers and Chinese-model pricing, and that’s when things get more expensive, as we are in the domain of specialist small businesses and limited markets, with all the challenges and costs that that implies.

As the man said, you pays yer money…
 

Rob R

Western Thunderer
With something like the 3dp water crane it is not the cost of physically producing the item you are paying - in relative terms that is pennies - but the man hours required to draw it/test print/re-draw etc.
If you could team up with like minded souls who have the skills to do the donkey work "in house" then the cost tumbles, otherwise it is unfortunately top dollar/deutschmark/euro to some guy trying to make a living out of it.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Tim,

forgive me please, I wasn’t trying to justify anything. I was merely philosophising about the costs of our hobby. Rob has summarised it most succinctly from the perspective of the maker.

I wholly agree that €110 appears rather more than steep, as €12.50 seems much more reasonable, but in the final analysis the justification, or not, of the price is a value judgement only the prospective purchaser can make.

Anyway, pleased to see you seem to have a solution.

atb
Simon
 
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Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Tim .

My humble apologies to you for diverting your informative and entertaining thread with what was apparently a poor attempt at ironic humour regarding the ever-increasing prices in out hobby, which seems to have sadly misfired.

Let us now hope it dies away and we can further enjoy your adventures with Pottendorf.

Roger :thumbs:.
 

Joe's Garage

Western Thunderer
Hi Tim
I fully agree with your comment....

The most important lessons are ‘small is better’ and an hour spent shunting is worth a whole week doing nothing productive.

Lovely water crane.
All the best
Julian
 

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
A most delightful picture which reminded me of a journey on a metre gauge line, behind a Jung 0-4-0T . This was in June 1990 when I visited the Selfkantbahn, a preserved line from Gillrath to Shierwaldenrath. This was the only working schmallspurbahn I saw in my several visits over the years. Due to the passage of the years and uncertain health, I am, with great regret, no longer be able to visit Germany again. Thanks be that I have many photos and happy memories of the many times spent in the Rheinland and my late friend Artur Simons.

Thank you for reminding me of those pleasant memories.

Roger.
 

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Totally agree, Tim. I enjoyed my 00 diversion- still do for that matter but I have some HOe and 009 stock* to hand plus second hand is easily and relatively cheaply available. To quote Monty Python - "Say no more!" :)

Roger

* Including an old abandoned basic layout to renew....:thumbs:
 

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Auhagen stations are usually very nice - I built one for an H0e layout some years back but the name and kit number now escape, but I recall how pleasant a build it was. Your comments about early Piko are quite right - I have long recommended them. I used to sell the range in another life, but that is ancient history now. Regrettably the modelling fraternity of the time lamentably failed to give the range the acknowledgement it merited.
I look forward to your further reports, Tim - keep them coming, please.

Roger
 

AJC

Western Thunderer
I like the finish on that one very much, Tim - nicely work-worn which highlighted the pressed body panels well.

Adam
 

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
It looks to be coming on very nicely, Tim. The subtleties of level are a nice effect. Thanks for the link regarding wagons - I must have a chat with my grandson who is resident in the Czech Republic (or is it now Czeckia....?) ;) .

Roger
 

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Very nicely adapted, Tim. The additional work you have put in makes me, as a founder member of the von Eidelburgers modelling group, realise how fortunate I am to be attempting to build an imaginary Rhineland scene where such modifications are not so frequently required ;)! More power to your elbow, my friend :thumbs:.

Roger.
 

steve1

Western Thunderer
Just a few words, not of justification but simply why return to German HO after a long hiatus?
Apart from the long standing personal connection, going down the German branchline route isn’t as silly as it seems, ultra reliable models* that are readily available but there are other features. No signalling or trackside fences for German branchlines, makes modelling a lot easier.

I model the Ep3a period, 1950-65, branchlines still ran tiny steam powered trains even the railbuses were wee, great for space starved modellers, totally unlike US outline. Look at my blog, lots of ideas:- My blog

*Not expensive, buy secondhand, most of the locos cost no more than £75 plus DCC upgrade with an average of less than £10 per item of rolling stock.
Another vote here for German HO. Admittedly Starker Verkher was Era V and industrial but I had good fun with the layout before it was sold.

The stock still exists and another outing is planned for the future.
5ECAAC85-2AF8-4590-AE78-6A6292E11E52.jpeg
steve

ABA5F139-3AF0-429B-BFF6-A2C9B8101E0E.jpeg
 

34091 Weymouth

Western Thunderer
The next minor task is the farm, I try to build the layout as a series of mini-scenes that share a common DNA of colour and building styles. The farm is no exception, based on a simple farmyard featured in the Bad Windsheim museum’s guide to Frankische houses click on link to BOOKS, Germans tend to chronicle and publish some very interesting books. Anyhew, the farmyard is a simple U-shape with a barn on one side and farmhouse on t’other linked by a wall of local stone, this is no modern design but others like it can still be found in almost every Frankische village.

Bad Windsheim museum is a collection of relocated buildings, amongst the larger exhibit we found this delightful one-family home, on examination, the reaction is surprise is its size, bijoux.

View attachment 188154

However this is an advantage on P’dorf moreover Faller offer a kit of very similar appearance, one which was used on the old layout (below), the little home and the previously featured Wills barn will become the farmyard replete with paved courtyard and adjacent midden.

View attachment 188155
As anyone following this thread might have guessed, the layout is merely a series of glimpses into the past hopefully all seamlessly joined.

Tim

That's a lovely scene you depicted Tim. It looks great. I've been planning a similar garden for my crossing keeper cottage.
 

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Nice one, Tim. The pictures reminded me of many happy times in the past eating out in the sunshine at many locations in the Rhine valley with my late friend Artur Simons, albeit they are in a somewhat different region. The English parallel to the weather you describe has to be over the "Long Drag" where experiencing four seasons in an afternoon is a well-known saying!

Roger.
 

michael080

Western Thunderer
Other odd features missing from layouts, especially those pertaining to be German, are posters.
These poster may seem strange, but the have been (and may still be) an important part of social life for the young generation in rural regions.
These folks won't meet many boys and girls locally, they need to meet at these "Kirchweih" or "Kerwa" which may translate as country fair. Meeting the other sex was hard in these regions, not comparable to urban environment.

Michael
 
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