3D Printing - whether to buy, what to buy and how to use it?

[Bill Bedford]

Formlabs offers a washing station that is simply unuseable.
It requires huge amounts (3-4l) of Isopropanol (IP), it is not correctly sealed so that the IP evaporates and its small paddle is not efficient.

The Formlabs Wash takes 9 lt of IPA, if it is only half-filled it is no wonder it doesn't work well. A fill will last me 60-70 washes usually, though the present one has done 110, but the time really needs to be doubled when the IPA gets that dirty.

I've seen people complaining about the IPA evaporating, but from my experience, I would say that most of the loss of IPA comes from either the lid being left open too long after the wash completes, the amount of IPA on the surface of pieces after a wash or both.

 

[Mike Trice]

I think it is fair to say you can expect a continuous learning curve. The basic principles of how the machines work is actually quite simple and common sense will often tell you why prints might fail.

I have two Anycubic machines. My first is an original generation Photon which has been modified by fitting Jackson Products twin rails, my second a Photon Mono X. The Mono X is both larger and more importantly faster. My V2 bodies (seen at the start of my 4mm workbench) were printed on the Photon OG and had to be split into two halves to be able to print. Print times were around 18hrs per part. My Mono X was inaccessible recently so I did some small prints on the OG and boy did it seem slow. The Mono machines generally have a higher vertical resolution so print quality is better.

A big advantage of having your own machine over Shapeways apart from cost savings is you are not limited by Shapeways minimum/maximum sizes. You also have more control over orientation.

The following 4mm torpedo vents were printed on my Photon OG at a 0.02mm layer height. You can see daylight through the vent cowls. Sure I get some rejects but I do get a lot of good ones:


I use AnyCubic resins for most jobs. I tried Elegoo ABS Like and thought the AnyCubic ones better for general printing. There are a lot of resins out there and each have different characteristics. Most are quite brittle and can break if dropped however it is possible to mix two compatible resins together to change their behaviour the most common being to add a flexible resin as a proportion of the final mix.

Resins are very touchy regarding printing temperature with the lower temperatures raising the risk of failure. If I want to raise the temperature of the machine/resin before printing a use a heat gun to warm everything up. Once the print process starts the uv tends to maintain the temperature.

I don't have a wash and cure. During the summer months fresh prints are left to cure outside in the sunshine. When there is no sun I use a UV Nail setting station. I use Methylated Spirits instead of IPA for washing (I have not tried water washable). I am not so aware of resin smells as my Wife but can certainly smell the Meths.

Be aware that once you have a machine certain parts are considered consumables (depending what type you go for) and are expected to need replacing such as the FEP and screen in addition to the resin and cleaning solution. I have replaced many FEP sheets and even replaced the screen on my Photon OG. Expect to get through a LOT of resin. There can be a lot of wastage with the support structures and a print might take several iterations to get right. Be aware that it can get addictive.

Can I suggest if you want to pursue this path you narrow down your choice of machine and then find and read through the various owner groups on Facebook. Most machines have some shortcomings and these will be raised on those groups. You will also read a lot of advice that can save you making big mistakes later (such as fitting screen protectors to Mono machines).

 

[Mike Trice]

That said, I guess I could buy all the stuff I’d like to print for less than the cost of the printer…possibly twice over.

I got to the stage where I felt I wanted to be self sufficient with regards to what I bought as I usually find fault with most things. Now the sky is the limit and I am no longer constrained other than by time. Shapeways' continuous rising prices also helped in that decision.

 

[GrahameH]

That said, I guess I could buy all the stuff I’d like to print for less than the cost of the printer…possibly twice over.

That is the flip side too.

I am still considering the option but unless it is going to be put to use on a regular basis then it will be just another "toy" on the shelf possibly ?

Please don't misunderstand as I would get great pleasure producing many and various items but just how many things do I need against those I could purchase of quality.

As an aside, there is also a water washable resin available which would do away for the need to purchase IPA.

G

 

[simond]

Yes, that is an important thought.

I have not done much modelling this year, and there’s little point in having a few hundred quid’s worth of kit cluttering up the place if it’s not going to get used regularly. As Tolkien would have it, a “mathom”. Maybe I’ll put it off til I retire…

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Simon,

I too thought about buying my own printer but having put in the hours learning to draw 3d I decided it wasn't going to be worth it either financially or time wise.

I got my first components printed for me and am very happy with both quality and cost. For what I paid it would take a long time to recoup even the modest purchase price of a printer and ancillary bits. Probably by the time I had covered the cost there would be technological developments and my machine would be obsolete!

Ian.

 

[Giles]

I doubt your printer would end up in the Mathom House, Simon.

I only use mine occasionally, but it enables me to do things I otherwise would not be able to do - and the satisfaction of that is immeasurable.
Initially I was put off by the thought of fumes and mess in particular, but in practice have found both negligible. A also have a black cloth hood that I keep the printer covered in whenever it has resin in so as to help keep light out, which seems to work well.
I have a wash and cure, which I find brilliant. Indeed I find the whole process very much easier than I thought it would be, and with few of the down sides. It lives in the back bedroom which is converted to our 'workshop', and there have been no complaints......

 

[Eastsidepilot]

This sounds very much like my own thoughts about owning various machinery and tools that are not often used. They don't often pay for themselves but when you need to use it your glad you have it as the alternative is just too much hassle.
Table saw, overhand planer and a tri-plane ( it's not only model making ), RSU and the pantograph miller all come to mind.

Col.

 

[garethashenden]

About the smell. The original Photon definitely smelled. Not strong enough to drive me from the room, but not pleasant either. With the Photon Mono the smell is all contained by the lid. You'll get a wave of smell when you take the lid off, but not while it's printing. Which is an improvement. But then everyone's interpretations of smells is different, so I can't say how bad it would be for you.

On how much I use it, its really varied. I find I use it in waves and that its better for things I want more than one of. I printed some wheel centers recently and I have more drawn up. Where I need all 6 to be the same size printing is a much better option than fabricating, they're actually round for one thing! I was also able to incorporate the balance weights into the wheel, rather than trying to add them later. Now than I have the files I can print more if I ever want to make another of these (I doubt it) or I can share the files with other people modelling the same engine (which I have done). I suspected that if you have easy access to a printer and the CAD skills to draw things for it, you will find uses that you haven't yet thought of. I made a tuning slide extender for my father's antique tuba which brought it from a B to a B flat. Now it can be played with other instruments. Never thought I'd be doing that when I bought the printer...

 

[MarkR]

Table saw, overhand planer and a tri-plane ( it's not only model making ), RSU and the pantograph miller all come to mind.

Hi Col,
I was interested in your reference to table saw etc, is the overhand planer the same as a planer thicknesser? As for the tri-plane, a quick search only turn-up the Fokker variety!
Many thanks
Mark

 

[simond]

The back bedroom…. Negotiations with young Ms D (who’s at university, so…) so we shall see!

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Hi Col,
I was interested in your reference to table saw etc, is the overhand planer the same as a planer thicknesser? As for the tri-plane, a quick search only turn-up the Fokker variety!
Many thanks
Mark

An overhand planer is not the same as a thicknesser, the timber is passed over the cutter on a table fore and aft of the cutter block. The fore table is adjustable for height to determine how much you plane off. It also has an adjustable fence so that the timber can be squared up or bevelled as desired.
Well a Sopwith Tri plane is about 18'-0" approx, not sure about the little Fokker, but my Stanley N0. 8 Jointer is about 2'-0" long .

Col.

 

[Boyblunder]

Simon,
I have been caretaker of the Love Lane Anycubic Photon printer for the last couple of years and produced quite a few useful items with it, none of them designed by me! Temperature is vitally important, I used to run it in my bedroom (no women in the house to stop me) and it worked fine but the pong/potentially hazardous nature of the fumes affecting my visiting grandson prompted its move into the garage and then the trouble started because I couldn’t keep it up to 20-25c in the winter.

The LCD screen failed on the Photon a few weeks ago so I bought a new Elegoo Saturn 4K with accompanying Anycubic Wash and Cure Plus (reviews of Elegoo Wash and Cure not so good). Its has been set up in the utility room where the printer sits above the washing machine so if I want to do some printing I can wash and dry the clothes first to raise the room temperature at nil extra cost.
Have to say I’m quite disappointed with both machines, the Saturn failed on its first mission to print its own test pieces which stuck to the FEP despite being at 24c before starting and using Elegoo’s own resin with their settings. After waiting for a new pack of 5 FEPs (none came with the printer) I adjusted the settings and managed to print my own test items successfully then went on to some Scale 7 chairs and a crossing V mould which had been successfully printed elsewhere on a similar machine. On the 2nd attempt the chairs printed OK and initial reports are that they will be useable but the crossing V is unusable because it suffers from considerable shrink. The successful one printed on another Saturn used Zortrac Epoxy resin so I have ordered some to try from 3DJake at £67 a bottle. But will the machine successfully print the same item in a very expensive castable resin?

The Anycubic Wash & Cure is a great piece of kit but takes 8 litres of IPA to fill. I was very impressed to start with, it saved loads of time and IPA compared to my usual method of tray, paintbrush then finish in ultrasonic bath. The curing cycle is really good, much better than leaving prints out in the sun hoping the local magpies don’t eat the product. Unfortunately after about the 10th use it failed with an apparently common problem, the paddle disconnects from the motor as it speeds up and then stops. Now waiting for a replacement.
So in summary Simon lessons learnt so far: 3D resin printing is time consuming, smelly and expensive especially if you factor in the heating bill but very satisfying when it works. If you want to try it think about the max size and/or quantity of items you are likely to print, the Saturn is big so will do an awful lot of track parts in one go but is slow, the 4K screen resolution is spread over a large area and the resin tray needs more the 500cc of resin to reach a reasonable depth. If I was buying again I would go for a smaller high quality printer or the similar sized ANYCUBIC Photon Mono X 3D at about £150 more. Old Vegetable Oil Guy is probably a good judge. As you can see in the photo beer at Christmas is more fun than 3D printing.
Robin

 

[Mike Trice]

Suggestion for anyone with a printer. Resin spills can occur. Worth getting a silicone pet feeding mat or even a large foil roasting tray and putting under the machine to help protect any items below the printer..

 

[michael080]

Resin spills can occur. Worth getting a silicone pet feeding mat or even a large foil roasting tray and putting under the machine to help protect any items below the printer..

This includes your shoes and of course your clothes. Resin spills can't be washed out. Guess how I know...

Michael

 

[Focalplane]

Looks like a shop coat would be a good accessory, or at least an apron. However I have several aprons and always remember I have them after the clothes they are supposed to protect have been damaged.

 

[simond]

Just watched these reviews. It all looks very easy…

 

[Pencarrow]

Just watched these reviews. It all looks very easy…

Looks impressive Simon and remarkably simple.

 

[simond]

Hi Chris,

yes, I'm sure it’s not complicated, it’s not pocket money but it’s affordable, and it offers the capability to do all sorts of stuff that would be difficult, time-consuming and/or expensive any other way. My biggest concern is that it gets used a lot in the flurry of new-purchase-new-toy-excitement, and than simply gets in the way.

I can think of all sorts of things I’d like to print. That said, it’s likely to be a bit smelly, is potentially messy, and it takes up space,

My lack of a warm hospitable workshop is an issue, my modelling bench is in the lounge, but the large/noisy/dirty tools are in the garage which is not at all ideal, indeed, using the laser or the big machine tools in the winter does depend on a mild day, and there’s no pleasure in working on models or motorbikes when they, the workshop and the tools, are uncomfortably cold.

I’m also aware of a significant stash of shelf queens for which a 3D printer is absolutely not a necessary next step, and I’m simply not overflowing with mojo. I’ve done very little modelling over the last year, and my efforts over the holidays have been a bit on the lame side. I think I’m going to put off any possible purchase for a month or two & see how I feel about it then.

I might, if I’m lucky, make some progress on the extension, modelling room & workshop.

Any structural engineers that have some time available for a domestic extension project in Kent, please PM me!

A Happy Healthy & Prosperous New Year!
Simon

 

[GrahamMc]

My biggest concern is that it gets used a lot

It helps that you can do most of the work without a printer and then decide whether or not it's worth having one or if it's easier to get them printed for you. Just draw up everything you want over a few weeks or months and by the time you've created some files you'll know from the amount you've prepared whether or not it's worth buying a printer.
Best wishes and a happy new year to you.
Graham.