Resin Cast Coach Sides-- Maybe

[Steve Cook]

Thanks Jamie I do admire your skills with the profile mill, although another 55 brackets seem like a motivational mountain to me, I guess one at a time is (literally) the only way to approach it. It will be well worth it from what you've shown above though
Steve

 

[jamiepage]

To be honest of course, the profile miller is a good substitute for genuine skill. My lack of consistency when making lots of identical bits is what led me to have the body sides cast in the first place, but at least with the profile miller the method maintains the standard.
Following the pattern round and round- 2.5mm thick brass with c. 10 thou. cuts x 56, is mind- numbingly boring but each one does eventually pop out to shape. It could almost be therapeutic if the machine weren't so loud that it drowned out the cricket on t' radio (Mind you, the cricket was literally drowned out anyway come to think of it). The temptation to send off a master for casting has been resisted so far, mostly because it would take longer overall and be no better.
The profile miller just produces a 2.5mm profile (of course) so the waisting down has to be done as a second function using an end mill, but that's an oddly satisfying step for some reason.
Also surprisingly easy and satisfying, by the by, is drilling out and re- tapping 16ba nuts for 14ba bolts, which I've used to mount the axleguards (plus glue) and will use again for these step brackets.
Anyway, it's all fun. Isn't it?

 

[JimG]

To be honest of course, the profile miller is a good substitute for genuine skill. My lack of consistency when making lots of identical bits is what led me to have the body sides cast in the first place, but at least with the profile miller the method maintains the standard.

I know what you mean. My CNC milling of my coach sides was used to make up for my own deficiencies. I've been following your progress with interest and I think the casting results are really excellent, and you've given me some ideas of my own for other methods,

But I am now close to the same stage as you are at the moment - making underframes and detailing the bodies - and I think the hard work is just about to start. No "press a button and churn out a side", but plenty of serious hand work where the CNC mill won't be much use. I suspect that I will have to do a fair bit of etching to provide a lot of the small parts so PPD might replace the CNC mill.

Jim.

 

[28ten]

I agree, bodies are easy, the fun starts when you get to the underframe, although it shouldn't be quite so bad for older stock.

 

[jamiepage]

Jim,
Thanks for your comments. Can I ask how you are going to do the 6 wh. underframes- cleminson? I'm not sure I haven't given myself a problem with fixed outer axles but we'll see.
Apropos nothing much, here's a couple of photos of a S7 wagon I made a few years ago to show the standard I would like at least maintain, although I've already taken a smart step backwards from the various underframe tie bars this time. As the Guv'nor says, it is actually pretty spartan really without all the modern bits and pieces, which does definitely make it easier.
All inspired by Geoff Pember's writings of a few years ago. Body metalwork supposed to look pitted but repainted.

 

[Dog Star]

Jim,
All inspired by Geoff Pember's writings of a few years ago.

A few years ago? More like a few decades ago and probably in the old "Model Railways".

 

[Dog Star]

Body metalwork supposed to look pitted but repainted.

And definitely does.... how did you achieve that effect?

regards, Graham

 

[JimG]

Jim,
Thanks for your comments. Can I ask how you are going to do the 6 wh. underframes- cleminson? I'm not sure I haven't given myself a problem with fixed outer axles but we'll see.

Jamie,

The coaches are four wheelers so I don't have to worry about how I would deal with a six wheel underframe. But I have had a chat with Jas Millham (Yaxbury) a while ago about running long wheelbase four wheelers on tight (for S scale) radius curves and it mght be that I would be better with six wheeled coaches and some form of Cleminson arrangement which would keep the outer axles radial to the curves. I've got maximum gauge widening applied but I might have to resort to making wheels with deeper flanges to avoid derailments.

I get the occasional mad idea of building the underframes like some fairground railways where the rolling stock underframes had the axles permanently fixed radial to the radius of the track circle they ran on. I've got no reverse curves on the layout, so it could be a possibility.

Jim.

 

[Dikitriki]

Let's hope you put them on the right way round

Richard

 

[jamiepage]

Graham,
Just some powder (pumice, I think) mixed with the paint then some stippling with an old brush as it dried. I was going to then drybrush rust colours but left it in the hope that it would look as though it had been refurbished/ repainted.
Jamie
Thanks Jim.

 

[Susie]

Hi Jamie,

Your work is truely inspirational - well done.

You asked about 6-wheel underframes. I am currently making a rake of GNR 6-wheelers in S scale. Like your coaches, the GNR used inside axleguards on the ends and outside axleguards in the centre.

While on holiday a couple of weeks ago, we called in at the Tanfield Railway for a look round and ride. In the stock sidings I discovered a GNR 6-wheeler on its original underframe - there cannot be many of these left.

The end and centre axleguards are to the same pattern: 3/4" thick with a 3/4" square strengthening piece welded round the opening for the axlebox, giving an 1-1/2" bearing surface. The important bit, however is the 1/2" joggle in the axleguard, just below the bottom of the solebar. The end axleguards, bolted to the inside of the solebars are joggled inwards but the centre axleguards are reversed - strengthening piece on the outside, as is the joggle. The centre axleboxes have a large space between the guides, and together with the springs being mounted on links and J hangers, will allow the centre axle to move 4" from side to side.

With no brake gear on the centre wheels, I would think that for a model the amount of movement could be increased a bit.

Here are a couple of pictures of the axleboxes.

Hope this helps,

Susie

 

[jamiepage]

Susie, Thank you very much indeed. Really, it was very kind of you to do that, and extremely helpful too. The MSWJR drawings showed no joggling but achieved a similar result by using a 1 1/2 in. packing piece behind the centre axleguards on the outside of solebars. (And thin packing pieces inside the outer axleguards on the inside if you see what I mean).
Putting this all in to scale has given a reasonable amount of potential sideplay for the centre axle but I need to think through the springing. It may be best to constrain the axleboxes laterally and just allow the axle to slide in and out. A spring wire could then act on top of the axlebox in a conventional way. Graphited PTFE bearings may reduce sliding resistance for the axle ends and make it easier for the centre wheels to follow a curve rather than not.
With luck, gauge widening will also reduce the affect of flange binding on the outer wheels, as suggested by Jim, above.
A Cleminson system would be much better I suspect, (after all, it was invented for the purpose of dealing with model- like radii) but I would like to hang on to the scale underframe gubbins if possible. It can all be hacked away later if necessary- or quietly relegated to the top shelf, more likely.
Thanks again, I do appreciate your help. The close ups of all those step brackets were especially inspiring!
Jamie

 

[Susie]

Hi Jamie.

I was going to make my coaches as four wheelers and then add the centre wheels to fill in the gap! These would have parellel ends to the axle, not pinpoints. The centre axleboxes would be fixed and have a vertical slot to allow the axle to move up and down under the control of a very light spring. If need be, the centre leaf spring (casting or built-up) could be thinned down to get a bit more movement. The centre wheels would therefore carry no appreciable weight.

Susie

 

[jamiepage]

Susie,
Thank you again. Your plan succinctly describes exactly what I think I'll do. Slater's G3 axles come with parallel ends which helps, although I might turn new axles with a double tapered mid section anyway.
Any pictures of your coaches?
Jamie

 

[Susie]

Jamie,

As requested, here are some pics of the coaches so far.

The more complete body was the trial one to see if the method worked for me (it is straight Jenkinson, using Slater's Plastikard). This was made in a week, as a sort of physio-therepy once the resin cast came off my broken wrist, to get movement back in my hand.

Being reasonably pleased with the result, modifying the method slightly, I lauched into a complete train load of a dozen vehicles. The "sides proper" are nearly done, and have only taken ten years to do....

I have decided to try to get the bodies to a similar state as the first one by the Society meeting in October.There! I've said it in public!!

Susie

 

[jamiepage]

Susie, thanks for the photos. Excellent. But 12? Crikey, that really is dedication. Puts me to shame. How have you done the roof?
Jamie

 

[Susie]

Thanks, Jamie,

Looking at these pictures, I'm not too sure if the standard of workmanship is quite up to that expected in these Hallowed pages, but since starting them I have learned a lot about the technique and also about real carriages, particularly in the last couple of weeks. The reason for starting a dozen is that I wanted a complete main line train - not that I have anywhere to run it!

The roof is profiled timber - either Jelutong or Tulipwood I can't remember which, with Plastikard glued onto it with Evostick. For the big batch I'll use cartridge paper instead of the Plastikard: I mis-read Jenkinson's instructions the first time round. I ran enough roof profile for the whole train, but some are 7'6" wide and others 8'0", just to make the view along the train more interesting!

I also made some seating in long strips, profiled for the squab and back. This was quite involved. When the result was seen at an S soc meeting I was asked to produce some more, so a one piece cutter was made and about 100 yards run off! Unfortunately, I no longer have access to the kit to do this!

Susie

 

[JimG]

I have decided to try to get the bodies to a similar state as the first one by the Society meeting in October.There! I've said it in public!!

Susie,

Don't forget the write up for "you know what".

Jim.

 

[jamiepage]

Footstep brackets and spring assemblies finished. Brackets needed three types- could probably have bent them from a single pattern but it was just as easy to glue up three profile patterns to follow, and it should help keep the footsteps straight and true. Spring J hangers and relevant shackles also profile milled and soldered to Williams Models spring castings.