7mm Project 31: Laughing In The Face Of Adversity

[BrushType4]

Steve,

That is a big difference in size.

Not sure if this link will help a little http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/55407-7mm-class-31-comparison-pictures/

And this one http://www.class31.co.uk/main.htm

 

[mickoo]

Also, they are missing those little boxes in front of the windows. Am I correct in thinking both cabs are identical? The ones on the model at the moment are different - one has been cut short by about 5mm at the back where it joins the body.

If you mean the small rectangles on the sloped part of the left and right windscreen?, these are washer jet covers, fitted around the mid 70's or a little earlier, they often got knocked off too IIRC, the resin parts won't have them as I suspect they have been made to allow models from several eras to be made, I.E. from green through to grey or yellow etc, easier to add them than to try and cut them off with out damaging the rest of the cab.

Cabs are identical lengths, there should be a pillar and chamfered part to the rear of each cab, the cab side window area (and front screen) is quite complex as the windows are semi recessed into the body side. What ever you have on the original model....ignore, the MMP cabs will be correct.

Kindest

 

[mickoo]

Steve,

That is a big difference in size.

Not sure if this link will help a little http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/55407-7mm-class-31-comparison-pictures/

And this one http://www.class31.co.uk/main.htm

Nice comparison, I personally prefer the DJH one, it just has that extra something that says 31 that the others do not, especially when you consider its all white metal, that's some seriously good casting work there.

Kindest

 

[SteveO]

Thanks Phil, I saw that thread a while ago but I didn't have a 31 then so thanks for linking to it.

From the face-on shots you can see that the MMP is narrower than the RJH by about the margin I've described. Thank the Lord I don't have the DJH version as that looks even worse! The DJH looks quite squat to me, proportionally, both MMP and Heljan seem more horizontally correct to the prototype.
Steve

 

[lancer1027]

Hi Steve, good luck with the alterations. Is the body too wide ?. If so then narrowing would just make the roof curve more curved. Could you slice the body down the roof length. Then at least the body sides will be correct to the cabs, then as regards the roof you can make new hatches fan covers etc.

Just a thought, prob not the best idea but worth a thought

Rob

 

[djparkins]

I'm still not sure I understand this correctly... you're saying the MMP cabs are narrower by 4 to 5mm either side...?? So the brass body you have is about a whole centimetre wider than the MMP cabs.??? That's more than a whole scale foot wider!?!
I for one can't see that sort of difference in the comparison pics on Brian Daniel's RMweb thread, and if there was anything like that sort of width discrepency I'm sure a modeller of Brian's calibre would've picked up on it.
Given too the reputation of MMP kits, personally I'd take the measurements of those resin cabs as Gospel. Any place that Ebay model comes close to them is purely coincidence....

I don't want to get too involved in this thread as I supplied these two cabs at little more than cost price + VAT to help the OP and I explained that the fit might not match exactly that of the ex-PWP/RJH Class 31 which I introduced at £45 in 1983. These resin cabs have certain quirky cut outs & rebates that enable them to fit into the MMP etched body in our 31 kit- avoiding apertures in the body [particularly at No.1 End]. The detail absent from the cabs is because in the MMP kit - around 50-60 etched parts are then fitted to each cab unit.

Now to the width difference. When RJH took over the PWP range in 1988, they insisted on doing their own casting rather than getting ABS Models to do it as I had done before. RJH used ridiculous clamp pressures and all their roof castings came out flattened. I suspect that when this kit was 'assembled' [and I use that term loosely!] the shape of these metal castings was taken as gospel rather than them being bent back to the correct profile and that this is what is making the whole body seem wider than it should be - or was indeed intended to be.

I suspect that if you slice off the cabs completely & re-profile the body between the cabs to suit our resin cabs [starting at the roof centre-line as I suggested to the OP at the time of his purchase] then any anomally will be rather less than 4mm! But its the builder's risk.

Oh dear - ebay & SH/part-built/vandalised kits! Beware of bargains that aern't.

David Parkins,
Modern Motive Power.

 

[D7093]

RJH used ridiculous clamp pressures and all their roof castings came out flattened. I suspect that when this kit was 'assembled' [and I use that term loosely!] the shape of these metal castings was taken as gospel rather than them being bent back to the correct profile and that this is what is making the whole body seem wider than it should be - or was indeed intended to be.

Agreed this could well be the problem, the RJH flattened cab roof casting made for some awful wide looking class 31 models appearing at the time. I know when I built mine all those years ago, I re-profiled the cab roof before starting which helped.

I suggest taking a few measurements though before chopping the cabs off, try wrapping a strip of paper up over and around the MMP cab. Marking at bottom of cab, cantrail levels either side and bottom of other side of cab and then check against brass body. Not completely accurate but will show if you are still 4-5mm out on either side.

The MMP cabs at least look like a cl31, so would be nice to see used if possible.

Trevor.

 

[djparkins]

I was just trying to explain why certain details which you referred to as missing, are missing from the cabs and also the odd cut outs in the location tabs - which were also referred to.

I then went on to explain how I thought that the width differential might not be as great as it seems due to the assembly of the RJH model.

DJP

 

[nascar24]

Just enough time to take a couple shots before the light fades on the glorious south coast.

Most of the paint has been stripped away, leaving a few few stubborn areas that I'll tackle tomorrow. I feel a bit thick headed after those stripper fumes, even after opening the bay windows.

View attachment 11539View attachment 11540

Now the paint has been largely stripped away I can see exactly how badly this kit has been constructed. As Neil mentioned above, the join between the cab bodywork and the roof is awful - nowhere near where it should be. I don't know if even the most liberal amount of weathering is going to hide this! You can't tell from these pics, but even the roof fan is way off centre by quite some way.

To answer the questions posed so far, I'll have a proper look at the bogies later tonight but the centre wheels don't budge a micron. They have either seized, been painted solid or soldered in position. That's going to be one hell of a job on its own.

Jordan, I should have titled this Laughing in the Face of Stupidity. Way more more apt!

D7093, thanks for that insight. There is a wire connected from one of the motor poles to the bogie chassis which would account for that rather basic approach. I will put them on the rolling road later tonight and see what happens. They are quite stiff though.

Both cab ends plus the body sides toward the cab ends are quite distorted. You can just about make out on the second pic above that the buffers point toward each other. This, unfortunately, is not a photographic error...

Thanks all for your encouragement. I'm going to need all I can get!
Steve

Steve,

One thing to remember about paint stripper is that you have to remove all of it including all those bits that get stuck in the grooves etc otherwise it will react when you come to repaint it. I always use old cellulose thinners in a gallon can with thw top cut off and dunk it in one end at a time.
Anyway best of luck

Alan

 

[SteveO]

Anyway best of luck

Thanks for the tips Alan. I used to build my own bikes, and when I started at the age of about 13 or 14 they were all second hand frames that had to be stripped to bare metal and repainted. They were good times and I earned my stripping badges back then.

After the stripping, I washed the body in soapy water, rinsed then soaked for 24 hours in slightly dilute white vinegar. That cleans it and softens the remaining paint to scrape off. Then a good soak and scrub in plain running water.

Thanks to the tips above, especially Mr Parkins (regarding reprofiling the roof), I started to visualise and measure (thanks Trevor) the new cabs vs the body. It looked like it was going to work out - it was a bad roof profile after all. So I took the plunge and cut the cabs off.


I have not sweated as much since my last 10 mile TT. Not because it was hard work, but because this was definitely a one way street. If I did decide to go back I would be in the unenviable position of making a bad job worse, although that would probably count as a skill, surely?

When I offered up the cabs first of all, my heart sank quite a few fathoms. "They are nowhere near!" I thought to myself. There was such a massive hole either side of the cab sides you could probably get another 31 to drive through the gaps!

However, by squeezing the body on with one hand and holding the cab with the other (hence, no pic) they fit perfectly! The cab and body bases even line up with each other. This has really spurred me on to finish this.

One problem, though, is that the tanks and bogie braces have been soldered on in the wrong - widened - position, so they will have to be repositioned to fit the cab body width. Luckily, I bought one of those pencil soldering torches to do some of the quick dismantle jobs. Unluckily, the torch is utter rubbish after the first fill and firing. It doesn't even light any more! However, for £1 it's done its job.

I'm looking forward to building a kit one day - I can't possibly do as bad a job as this. To prove it, the fan inside the body has been painted red, similar to what I've seen on other kits. However, it is facing INSIDE the body! The colour of the fan through the grille is plain brass, and therefore invisible from outside!

I'm off to Worthing O Gauge group tomorrow for an hour or two to see what it's like, then off to daddy's day lunch. I'll try to fit in a bit more work tomorrow night.
Steve

 

[lancer1027]

Hi Steve,
looks like some radical work going on there. But it looks like your well on the way.
I look forward to seeing the next lot of progress pics

Rob

 

[D7093]

Glad its heading in the right direction Steve

At this stage I'd probably remove the tanks and bogie mounts and reprofile the body so Its a snug fit with the cabs before eventually fitting. Also a good opportunity to tidy/redo any of the brass parts on the body that your not happy with.

Those MMP resin cabs are a vast improvement on the old ones

Trevor.

 

[Dog Star]

As you are getting into the swing of this upgrade... how aboiut changing the topic title to recognise your success in overcoming adversity?

 

[D1054]

As you are getting into the swing of this upgrade... how aboiut changing the topic title to recognise your success in overcoming adversity?

Hear hear! Excellent posts, and well done Steve. Looking forward to seeing your progress with this now the daemons have been overcome!

 

[iploffy]

That's what we LMR men like cut up 31's pity they didn't do that with the full size things, instead of loosing our beloved 'Rats', ooops sorry mate. Any who back to it looking good at long last there is a way to making a silk purse from a sows ear . I can see how the roof makes a lot of difference to the whole shape but once you have the roof sorted you might want to motorize the roof fan before you re assemble it

 

[SteveO]

At this stage I'd probably remove the tanks and bogie mounts

Thanks, exactly what I had in mind. In fact, I'm pretty certain the body won't fit the cabs without refitting in their correct positions. Also, as you suggest, the grab handles on the roof are not all the same shape or position so they will all come out and be refitted too. And that fan is definitely out!

As you are getting into the swing of this upgrade... how aboiut changing the topic title to recognise your success in overcoming adversity?

Ha ha! I have a feeling this is just the beginning, there's plenty more to come yet. I wouldn't mind changing 'Adversity' to 'Stupidity' to reflect my decision to buy the thing in the first place! I'll ask one of the boffins to do it for me.

I didn't manage to do anything last night. After a busy day firstly with a morning at South Coast O in Worthing, then on to Fathers Day lunch in Shoreham, I finally managed to sit on the sofa at 9pm and slumped asleep shortly after. I missed both footy results. My girlfriend was working until 10pm and went to bed after, thinking I would come in after footy. However, I woke up at 4.30am still on the sofa!

South Coast O was really good and I'll make this my regular jaunt. They have quite a nice test track and I managed to fully test out my 02 shunter and my N7. Both run absolutely beautifully! I was especially surprised at the N7 as it looks like it's not been used for years. After a good clean and tweak of the pickups it was off and running, even pulling a couple club coaches. Very happy. I ran out of time to test the 47 so that will be next month.
Steve

 

[SteveO]

a silk purse from a sows ear.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! If I can manage to get a silk sows ear I'll be happy Good suggestion on the fan. The ultimate aim is DCC sound so a working fan would be too good an opportunity to miss. Are there kits available or could I get a Heljan spare. I hear there's a good supplier, I think I remember Howes as a source for Heljan spares?
Steve

 

[Dog Star]

As you are getting into the swing of this upgrade... how aboiut changing the topic title to recognise your success?

Ha ha! I have a feeling this is just the beginning, there's plenty more to come yet. I wouldn't mind changing 'Adversity' to 'Stupidity' to reflect my decision to buy the thing in the first place!

This reads like a cue for a competition.... WTers propose and you decide on title MkIIa.

So, starter for ten:-

"Smiling at a successful first cut - still opportunities for mistakes, ."

regards, Graham

 

[SteveO]

Graham, this should be expanded - how about a competition for "The Worst Dog's Dinner Made into Something Presentable" thread? Fully illustrated with annotations to describe the trial, of course...
Steve

 

[adrian]

This reads like a cue for a competition.... WTers propose and you decide on title MkIIa.

So, starter for ten:-

"Smiling at a successful first cut - still opportunities for mistakes, ."

regards, Graham

"31 ways to cleave your louvre" - with apologies to Paul Simon.