P48 for Cotton Belt: Roster addition SW1200

[mickoo]

Cheers, I'll grab some gloss and satin lacquer as well, I'm not aiming to muller the SD35 as much as you did

I'm probably going to stick with acrylics for the plastic models, you seem to get good results so why reinvent the wheel and spend a fortune on testing other ranges. I used to use acrylics back in my AFV days and got good results.

For brass I'll probably go with cellulose, though I do see that Vallejo do a primer for metal as well.

That conversion chart, is it the MRH one, if so it's a nice read and things have certainly moved on since I last used acrylics 20 years ago.

Chart doesn't have MILW or BNSF orange though and no CSX box car livery blue and yellow which from observation seem to be a touch darker and richer than the YN colours, possibly because they are newer and less faded?

 

[mickoo]

Dave, what varnish did you use?

I've got the Vallejo polyurethane gloss and matt, both are pretty much unworkable in an air brush (10-20 psi tests) and the gloss is the work of Beelzebub.

Of all the test shots one came out almost gloss and gritty despite the surface being perfectly flat. I've tried letting them down with Vallejo airbrush thinner from 50/50 to 70/30 (30% thinner) with no joy.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I've used AK interactive, Vallejo and Alclad varnish.

For the Vallejo gloss I've used 100% through to a roughly 50% gloss/50% airbrush thinner plus a few drops of airbrush flow improver. It all depends on the level of sheen I'm after.

I run the compressor at about 20 psi with the airbrush open i.e. before attaching the paint in it's cup.

I have also substituted Vallejo airbrush cleaner for their thinners.

Here I was testing the red for LT and this is hard to photograph to show the effects as each test does have a sheen. Some photos for what they are worth.

Bottom is 100% gloss with a few drops of airbrush flow improver.


The full gloss section - the camera cannot see what I can see with mk1 eyeball which is a bit more definition of the ammonite in the reflection.

The two sections taken against the light 75% gloss/25% cleaner at the top, 100% gloss at bottom. All have a few drops of airbrush flow improver in the mix.


These two sections taken against the light 50% gloss/50% cleaner at the top, 50% gloss/50% thinners at bottom. Again all have a few drops of airbrush flow improver in the mix.


There again I'm not after a high gloss finish factory finish much beloved by the BR steam mob .

 

[mickoo]

Dave, much obliged , I'll try again but none of the tests got anywhere near that.

Most turned a milky colour (bloom) a few minutes into the drying and then either went full matt and I think one went to gloss but suspect that may have been due to the high gloss finish underneath, I. E. paint not flattened and thus matt.

I just want an egg shell sheen really, I'll try again tomorrow and see what happens.

I do have two air traps in the air line so I'm pretty sure the bloom isn't moisture in the line and I get no blooming with cellulose painting at the moment.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I only have one moisture trap in the air line and at 20 psi I use (mentioned earlier) I usually have the airbrush around 30-45 cm away from the model. Vallejo varnishes appear milky if on too thick.

Are you using the varnish on enamel, cellulose or acrylic paint?

The best Vallejo varnishes are from their Premium Airbrush Color range and I use the satin varnish a fair bit.

 

[mickoo]

Dave,

This is what I threw in the shopping basket last week. I've also now got a bottle of 71.001 Air white coming, can't remember why I got 70.991 and 70.973 for in non Air bottles, probably for weakening one of the darker colours.



As far as I can see the Polyurethane is the only varnish they do, there was talk on forums of others but the dates were old and people were talking as if the others were no longer available. The bottle does say the Polyurethane is spray able directly out of the bottle but it's like syrup. A quick Google looks like I might actually need Matt varnish 62.062, Satin varnish 62.063, Gloss varnish 62.064

I was spraying onto cellulose and in some cases just a blank tin can, pressure was tried between 10 and 20 psi as that's what many people use, but I was much closer, much much closer (100-150 mm) as it's a dual action brush so I was limiting (trying to) the varnish flow. I didn't get any puddles or runs but it may have been going on too wet.

I'll try some more tomorrow at a longer range and see what happens and have just ordered so premium airbrush colour range varnishes.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Matt varnish 62.062, Satin varnish 62.063, Gloss varnish 62.064

These are the premium ones and are better.

there was talk on forums of others but the dates were old and people were talking as if the others were no longer available.

Vallejo did change the formula of their varnishes a few years ago and the ones they are talking of are no longer available.

I was spraying onto cellulose and in some cases just a blank tin can,

I've found this doesn't always work as there's nothing for the paint to adhere to.

From my experience...
Acrylic on acrylic; enamel or cellulose on acrylic = yes
Acrylic on matt enamel or cellulose = yes
Acrylic on gloss enamel or cellulose = no (well it sort of worked but not the effect I was after - it went on too thick).

The Model Air range should not require thinning as they are formulated for air brushing straight from the bottle. If you do mix the Model air and Model Color ranges then some airbrush flow improver would not go amiss. Especially with the thicker varnishes and when thinning their Model Colour range.

I always put one or two drops in anyway as thinners can act as a faster drying agent. The improver acts as a slight retarder to counteract this.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Mick- I've just noticed you're using a different gloss varnish 27.650.

I use 28.517 Gloss Acrylic Varnish which is about single cream consistency.

 

[simond]

This is all good info.
Thanks chaps
Simon

 

[paulc]

Hi Dave , i too discovered the the benefits of air brush flow improver after finding a bottle squirreled away whilst tearing my hair out because of some Humbrol Acrylic paint that had all the flow quality of lumpy yogurt.
Its not Vallejo but does have magical properties and paint seems to flow a lot easier .I dont use the word varnish , it takes me back to the gunge that we used on school woodwork projects , but finish coats seem to be a constant source of frustration for people on models . I have been trialing floor polish which dries with a nice satin / matt finish and it will be used on my next loco .
Good luck Simon , cheers Paul

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I have been trialing floor polish which dries with a nice satin / matt finish and it will be used on my next loco .

I'd be interested to know your results of the floor polish trials.

 

[mickoo]

I used to use Klear for my previous modelling in Aero and AFV days, really really good stuff but they changed the formula back then and it wasn't as good. Not sure what it is like these days.....if you can even still get it, probably re branded somewhere.

As a side yarn, one of my friends used to be the in the Army on tanks and boot shining was a chore, especially after a night out. So one night/morning they decided to Klear their boots, unfortunately they looked a bit too shiny; the Sargent on inspection the next day arrived with a glass of water and promptly poured it over any boot he thought was not polished in the correct manner. Those with Klear turned a milky white followed promptly by a week in the spud house.

I never really had that happen on a model, not that I dropped water on them frequently, but adding water slide decals never made the Klear go milky, probably because I left it a while to set before adding decals.

 

[paulc]

I used to use Klear for my previous modelling in Aero and AFV days, really really good stuff but they changed the formula back then and it wasn't as good. Not sure what it is like these days.....if you can even still get it, probably re branded somewhere.

As a side yarn, one of my friends used to be the in the Army on tanks and boot shining was a chore, especially after a night out. So one night/morning they decided to Klear their boots, unfortunately they looked a bit too shiny; the Sargent on inspection the next day arrived with a glass of water and promptly poured it over any boot he thought was not polished in the correct manner. Those with Klear turned a milky white followed promptly by a week in the spud house.

I never really had that happen on a model, not that I dropped water on them frequently, but adding water slide decals never made the Klear go milky, probably because I left it a while to set before adding decals.

Hi Mick , the floor polish will go over the deacals which are going on to a gloss black paint . This should kick the gloss back to a satin finish . I have never liked high gloss finishes on model locos , to me its too much like a kids toy train .
Cheers Paul

 

[Scale7JB]

Dave, how did you get on with the Atlas GP-35?

I’m hoping I’ll have one shortly at a good price.

JB.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Dave, how did you get on with the Atlas GP-35?

I’m hoping I’ll have one shortly at a good price.

JB.

Not very far apart from re-motoring it with a pair of Maxon motors - mine will end up as a Cotton Belt version.

I should get on with it really as I have all the detail parts and the P48 drop in wheelset.

 

[Scale7JB]

Thanks Dave, where is the drop in wheel set from? NWSL or Right o Way?

JB.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The drop in sets were from NSWL. I also had a set for my Dash 8-40B and the gears are just pushed ot the plain axle and may slip.

To rectify this I gently moved the gearaway from the wheel and knurled this part of the axle. Once completed I added a tiny drop of loctite retaining compound between the gear and axle.

The photo below is the GP9 wheelset to show the part of the axle I knurled. I also did the same thing on the GP9 drop in set for the RC kit where the gear is in the centre.