Nick Dunhill’s workshop building a SECR P class from the Alpha Graphics Kit.

Nick Dunhill

Western Thunderer
On inspecting the etches I noticed that the footplate was continuous under the boiler to the rear of the smoke box and that the chassis was a one piece fold up jobby.

The coupling rods were etched in brass(!) and not jointed, which is essential for a model with suspension.

I roughed out some boss overlays from scrap nickel silver sheet and re jigged the rods to look a bit more realistic.

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The finished loco will be in SECR livery and feature inside motion IF the budget would allow. The cross members on the chassis etch would have to go therefore and be replaced with ones in the correct place if inside motion was to be fitted. Also I would have to cut a hole in the footplate to reveal the motion, and fill some random others.

Here’s the chassis after a bit of a rework. You can see that I have made all the stays in the prototypical places and added the front and sides of the ash pan. The ash pan was scratch built as there’s nowt for it in the kit and you can see the gearbox through the lightening holes In the frames.

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I turned to the footplate and reduced the height and length of the valences and attached them to the underside of the footplate along with the buffer beams. I soldered 1.5 x 1.5 mm L section brass to the backs of the valences to keep them straight and aid with fixing to the footplate. None of the above parts have any registration slots or grooves to locate them. I then went to town a bit adding all the angle that would normally be under the footplate holding it all together.

I cut the footplate away under the boiler where it shouldn’t be!

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You can see that I made and modified some CPL SECR couplings. The shank of the rear hook has been extended to fit the drag box and the front one shortened. I fitted the cast white metal buffer shanks with their turned heads.

Tomorrow I plan to scratch build a cab and bunker as the etches supplied are dimensionally wrong….by a lot. I saw a thread elsewhere where the builder couldn’t fit the BR number onto the bunker as it was too short. The bunker should be 17 mm long from the rear to the door opening and the etch is 14 mm so I’m not surprised. The cab front and rear and the bunker rear are 2 mm too narrow and the cab should be 3 mm longer. I rang Warren Haywood and he said that he wouldn’t be able to paint all the correct borders and boxes of lining onto the cab sides and then fit the numbers and works plate.

Methinks there won’t be enough in the budget for inside motion. Pity, it’s a cute little loco.
 

2-Bil

Western Thunderer
Hi Nick,
There's 39 images of P Class locos on Colour Rail including 6 of 325.However they're all 1950's/60 photos so might not be relevant -but then again they might
Respects
Brian W
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Nick
I've found one pic of 325 in SECR livery but it's pretty small, in truth I see no reason why it would differ from any of the others in a tiny classs of 8 locos. I may have others which I will look out tomorrow.
Regards
Martin
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Nick
I've found one pic of 325 in SECR livery but it's pretty small, in truth I see no reason why it would differ from any of the others in a tiny classs of 8 locos. I may have others which I will look out tomorrow.
Regards
Martin
I don't know the reason but there were two variants within the 8 which look similar but have different height cabs and possibly other differences. I think I have a book somewhere... Hattons did a good job of matching the numbers with the right bodies in their OO models.

Edit: Found the book (The Wainwright P Tanks by Klaus Marx), there is mention of the later cabs being 4 1/2 inches lower but that is certainly not the whole story as the later tanks and bunkers were lower as well, there is a useful photo of 325 between 556 and 557 (the original two previously numbered 753 and 754) on the back cover. The shorter cabs look taller than the taller cabs from the rear because the lower bunker exposes more of the upper cab back sheet, if that make any sense. No drawings in the book apart from a scrappy diagram. The book does have a quite good photo of 325 in SECR livery in 1912.
 
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Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Yes there were, but I doubt it made a difference to the livery. The first two, nos 753/4 had cabs 4 1/2" higher than the following six. Quite why I don't know but it may have been to do with auto train working, the SECR using a mechanical system. I can't immediately find any other differences between them although something in the back of my mind says tank capacity but Bradley has nothing to say on the matter. They were subsequently renumbered 556/7 to clear a block of numbers for the L1s. I'll see if I can detail the periods 325 was auto fitted tomorrow.
Martin
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
First, the photo from p10 of The Wainwright P Tanks. 325 at Greenwich Park in July 1912.
p325 1912.jpg

And the rear cover photo, 325 between 557 and 556, with some yellow lines drawn on them to show the difference in heights. I don't have drawings or dimensions but the tanks and bunker on 325 are definitely lower than the first two, as is the cab but not by as much.
pcomp.jpg

A trip to the Kent and East Sussex Railway to measure 753 / 31556 would confirm the original pairs dimensions while measuring any of the Bluebell Railways three would confirm the dimensions of the other 6.
 

John Duffy

Western Thunderer
The first and third locos were made from the kit but the centre engine was made by Nick Dunhill who through all of the kit of the parts in the bin - next to an NB Atlantic and a Caley passenger tank - and scratchbuilt it accurately to the actual dimensions! :D

John
 

Nick Dunhill

Western Thunderer
The first and third locos were made from the kit but the centre engine was made by Nick Dunhill who through all of the kit of the parts in the bin - next to an NB Atlantic and a Caley passenger tank - and scratchbuilt it accurately to the actual dimensions! :D

John
Yeah I have form!

This will go one of two ways.

1. Because the kit is based on the first two the tanks will simply require a bit of trimming and the rest of the loco body will literally fall onto the footplate out of the box.

2. The rest of the kit is shite as well and I’ll have to scratch build the lot.

Place your bets….
 

Nick Dunhill

Western Thunderer
Hi all
I wonder if someone could help. You can see from the attached photos my model with it's scratchbuilt cab. It is substantially different in dimensions to the kit cab! Of course the kit boiler doesn't fit so I'm scratchbuilding one of those too now.

The tank tops extend beyond the inner edge of the tank sides up to the boiler clothing. Can anyone tell me whether there's a gap between the tank top and boiler clothing or does the boiler clothing sit on top of the tank top?

Thanks
 

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ianlbsc

Western Thunderer

This group is restoring a P class and the home page has GA Pipe arrangement drawing that seems to show as the photos above.
Cheers, Ian
 

Nick Dunhill

Western Thunderer
Thanks Ian, looks like there's an infill strip.

Here are the cab sides that I cut out using my GA as a reference.

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You can see the dimensional differences. The cab was also too narrow so I had to cut out cab front, back and bunker rear.

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Here is everything assembled.

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Today I measured up the smokebox parts and found the former to be too high and too big in diameter, which wouldn't have been such an issue if the base wasn't woefully narrow. So I am scratchbuilding a boiler and smokebox and firebox then fitting the tanks round it all. Of course the cab roof will not now fit so I'll have to make one of those as well.

I am having some difficult conversations with the client about the cost of a small 0-6-0T locomotive.
 
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