1/32 New Northern Finescale Brake Van

[Simon]

Thats interesting Simon. I bought the brake van from Dave Walker and had always assumed it was the Mercian kit.

That's understandable as Trevor had some involvement, I think he made some additional parts for the 1/32 version or otherwise altered something(?)

When I made mine I brewed up my own running gear, which I am likely to do again with this plastic kit I think.

Otherwise still in Christmas mode here, Santa brought me an Optivisor so less excuses for not modelling in 2017….

Simon

 

[Simon]

Well, I'm afraid I'm disappointed with this kit.

Fundamentally, the bodysides are approximately 3mm too low when compared to scale, and are also about 2.5mm too short in length.

The ducket moulding, which is nice, is linearily 1mm short in each plane, which leaves a very visible gap if just used as it is.

This picture shows what I mean.



The wheels are 32mm diameter, which is fine for 10mm scale

The mouldings are a bit "heavy" (with the exception of the torpedo vents which are beautiful mouldings) but generally useable.

I really like Roger Leigh and co who made the kit, and will email them my "findings" but am not going to make any more review type comments as I just want to make a brake van not be seen as assassinating someone else's endeavours. I do not think it is easy to get things right, as others continually say, but on the other hand struggle to understand the accumulation of "nearlys" in this kit.

The height issue exacerbates the odd look of the van, especially when combined with the over height concrete end floor sections.

I think it is very hard to talk about all this to the G1 community as one will be seen as a negative nit picker, and so I'm not going to. As I have said before, the kit as supplied will build into a working representation of a brake van and will no doubt satisfy the existing G1 market.

So, on to the build decisions.

I am myself going to correct the height issue by solventing on a new top piece, cutting off the existing "overhangs" at each end, and then the bodyside plank impressions will need re-arranging with filler etc.
I am going to widen the ducket moulding to give a correct fit laterally, but lose the vertical problem by modelling a van with a sheet of metal attached to the bodyside above the ducket. Looking at photographs this was a very common repair from quite early on, which will also differentiate this van from my etched built one.

A final thought re the kit, and I'm afraid it's about price, despite my earlier comment. By the time that I have replaced, altered and not used various parts of the kit, it represents pretty poor value even by G1 standards. Nuff said, at least it has got me off my harris and working on another brake van

Simon

 

[Stoke5D]

That's a shame Simon.

I could understand that list of issues in the more ' garden railway OK at a distance' 10mm scene but not for 1/32. Compare and contrast with Fred's Box Van...

Oh well, as soon as I get mine I will be following you with the tweaking. I'm ' fortunate' to own one of my own in 1:1 scale, so at least I can easily check the dims. As you say, there's plenty of plywood/sheet steel BR 'repairs' (that I've been gradually undoing on the real thing) but which can help cover for some of the sins of the model.


Andrew

 

[Dave Bowden]

Hi Simon
The AA19 Brake van I'm currently building is also an Big Jim kit blown up to G1 1/32 scale by Trevor C. In my case I got a good deal in that I only bought the etches and Trevor also threw in the w/m castings. The rest of the parts were sourced as described in my build in this section.

Dave

 

[Simon]

Hi Andrew

That's a shame Simon.

I could understand that list of issues in the more ' garden railway OK at a distance' 10mm scene but not for 1/32. Compare and contrast with Fred's Box Van...

Oh well, as soon as I get mine I will be following you with the tweaking. I'm ' fortunate' to own one of my own in 1:1 scale, so at least I can easily check the dims. As you say, there's plenty of plywood/sheet steel BR 'repairs' (that I've been gradually undoing on the real thing) but which can help cover for some of the sins of the model.


Andrew

Hi Andrew

How interesting, we'll all have "brake van envy"!

I hope you document what you do with yours here, especially in areas where your modelling is informed by the real thing, pictures would be good. One area that I don't properly understand is where the floor of the veranda meets the edge of the body. On my brass van I modelled it as if the edge is a timber section, but I think the floor planks actually run up to a vertical steel "edge".

On the model I have filled the top horizontal line with styrene microstrip and am re-establishing the vertical lines with a file, contemplating what and how to stick the top section back in with, augmented plastruct 80 by 125 thou section is the current favourite.

Simon

 

[Stoke5D]

Mine is a later one with roller bearing axle boxes and Oleos. It was also one of the less common vac. fitted variety (as built), rather than just being piped, although that stuff was removed before it was withdrawn so that it was just a ZTO in the end. I did have one of the earlier builds (also fitted as it happens) with conventional oil boxes and sprung buffers like this model but I, sensibly (and most unlike me), moved that one on.

As you will know, they were built in many lots by various builders over the years, so quite a few variations. That said, the basic structure is the same, so to answer your question, the cabin is a box with a full length wooden cill from end to end and the floor boards extend to the door way and sit on top of the cill (on mine at least). There's a reinforcing plate covering part of the cill under the outer part of the doorways through which the outer handrails bolt through. Often there's a metal plate repair there to, which can be confusing.


Andrew

 

[Neil]

Well, I'm afraid I'm disappointed with this kit. ....

That must be, errm, disappointing.

Not being able to get much of an idea about the dimensional discrepancies I did a crude calculation to work out what the 4mm/ft equivalent would be. If my methods are correct the 2.5mm deficiency in length equates to 1mm and the 3mm in height to 1.2mm. I then realised that I've never run the ruler over my Bachmann, Airfix or Lima BR standard brake vans as they look right, unlike the Mainline (?) van which used the same body moulding for the short wheelbase LNER van. I guess it's because I've put my trust in my eyes, they look right and I'm not going to worry if they don't exactly match the drawings. Likewise I have vans which I know are either 2mm too wide or 1mm too narrow, but again they're convincingly like the real thing so I've not bothered to correct the errors. Looking at the heading photo of the Northern Finescale van it was the ballast weights and clumpy roof which offended my eye, followed by the veranda opening. It poses an interesting thought that if those bits were correctly rendered would the rest of the discrepancies have offended, would you have bothered to offer the sides up to the drawing?

 

[Simon]

Exactly so, and it was the "wrong looking-ness" that led me to investigate and discover. The "wrongness" of the end opening is exacerbated by the lack of height in the body sides and overall the look of the thing as is just doesn't convince to my eyes.

I'm doing red cabbage now, but last night I did quite a lot of cutting and filling which was quite therapeutic.

Pictures in due course.

Simon

 

[Stoke5D]

Talking of wrong looking, are all the solebar brackets that support the cills I mentioned missing, or is it just the angle of the photo.s?

They're prominent on the etched brass version you've shown us.


Andrew

 

[Stoke5D]

I re-read my post on the veranda floor boards, and to be absolutely clear, the floor boards sit on the cill but only extend to the edge of the cills. The cills are covered by both the vertical matchboarding of the body and a rectangular horizontal plank of the same thickness as the matchboarding that goes under the door ways, which both caps the end of floor boards and covers the cill. The metal stiffening plate I also mentioned go on top of this plank. If I wasn't several hundred miles away from said van I'd post a picture...


Andrew

 

[Neil]

..... I'm doing red cabbage now, but last night I did quite a lot of cutting and filling which was quite therapeutic. ....

Some of my most satisfying builds have started out with a rather unpromising starting point

 

[John Miller]

Well, I'm afraid I'm disappointed with this kit .............................. I think it is very hard to talk about all this to the G1 community as one will be seen as a negative nit picker, and so I'm not going to.............. it represents pretty poor value even by G1 standards. Nuff said .............

Simom

I'm not sure why you would find it 'very hard to talk about all this to the G1 community'.

Maybe in the general garden railway/16mm world, this could all be seen as 'nit picking' as you like call it, but in the G1 community that I'm familiar with, this kind of analysis and comment is of the greatest help in aspiring to the higher standards of accuracy and authenticity we strive to achieve.

Personally I would welcome any frank and unbiased comments you may care to make on all G1 topics.

 

[Jordan]

Some of my most satisfying builds have started out with a rather unpromising starting point

What, with red cabbage..??

Coat, hat, etc.....

 

[Simon]

Red cabbage was yesterday, as of this evening I have mostly finished cutting and re-arranging the sides, ends and base of the kit to better represent the prototype. The end window position problem is now rectified by cutting a section off the top and adding strips to the bottom.

Here are the first alterations, everything made a bit higher, end timbers thickened up on rear of ends to give right appearance. At this stage I hadn't removed any material from the top of the ends.



The current state of play placed together. The ends have had just over 2mm taken off their tops to correct the end window height problem, but now need to lose a bit of height from their bottom edges as evidenced by "gap" at bottom edge of sides. My next target is the window to door to cabin, which needs to be lower in height than the windows on either side.



More relaxing and easier than soldering brass sheets together.

The end platforms have also been reduced in length to give the characteristic "step" over the buffer plank too.

Andrew, thank you for your description of the brake van's construction, which I now understand - the veranda floor on this van will therefore be more "accurate" than that on the brass van(!) In answer to your bracket question, yes they are provided but are a bit " heavy" looking, I haven't decided whether I'm going to use them or make new ones in Plastikard yet.

Simon

 

[markjj]

I have big boots and I don't care but why do we put up with kits like this?? In 7mm we can buy the ultimate correct to the final degree then some person comes along in a larger scale charges the earth for a pile of incorrect parts. I rest my case your honour it's time we stopped pussy footing around and beating about the bush.. a spade is a spade after all not a brake van lol.....

 

[Stoke5D]

Andrew, thank you for your description of the brake van's construction, which I now understand - the veranda floor on this van will therefore be more "accurate" than that on the brass van(!) In answer to your bracket question, yes they are provided but are a bit " heavy" looking, I haven't decided whether I'm going to use them or make new ones in Plastikard yet.

Simon

Don't forget the two outer ones on each side are of a much lighter construction than the others due to the fact they only support the veranda end panels.


Andrew

 

[Stoke5D]

I have big boots and I don't care but why do we put up with kits like this?? In 7mm we can buy the ultimate correct to the final degree then some person comes along in a larger scale charges the earth for a pile of incorrect parts. I rest my case your honour it's time we stopped pussy footing around and beating about the bush.. a spade is a spade after all not a brake van lol.....

You're right mate. Especially as most of the issues here are either inexplicable basic dimensional errors, or simply arise from being too cheap to provide the right parts.

You wouldn't sell more than a handful if you did this in 7mm.


Andrew

 

[markjj]

I would have changed scale many years ago if the options were available unfortunately they are not.
On that note I'm still trying to find the perfect brake van in 7mm so you are not alone there guys. Just because someone does a kit that's almost there just isn't good enough today with all the options and technology we have at hand now.

 

[Steve Cook]

Might not sell more than a handful in G1 either....

I have big boots and I don't care but why do we put up with kits like this?? In 7mm we can buy the ultimate correct to the final degree then some person comes along in a larger scale charges the earth for a pile of incorrect parts. I rest my case your honour it's time we stopped pussy footing around and beating about the bush.. a spade is a spade after all not a brake van lol.....

In Simon's case he is the first to buy one, compare against drawings and post the results - the people you need to ask your 'put up with' question to are the ones who buy it knowing the shortcomings. Somebody needs to have parted with cash and analysed it to let everybody else know.

I have to say watching somebody build an accurate kit straight out of the box would be interesting, particularly in the assembly techniques applied. Watching somebody modify and personalise a kit, whether correcting faults or adding detailing is even more interesting in my book - fortunately for us we get the latter. Having spent some time with Simon and the kit yesterday, the shortcomings will be fed back to the manufacturer - whether anything comes of that is actually the interesting point.
Steve

Edited for spelling

 

[markjj]

I hope for everyone's sake the faults are corrected to be honest today there is no excuse for things like this to be happening. Why should anyone part with money to be testing someone's first offs....