1/32 New Northern Finescale Brake Van
- Thread starter Simon
- Start date
D816Foxhound
Western Thunderer
Lovely!
It's definitely looking the part.
Roger
It's definitely looking the part.
Roger
David Halfpenny
Western Thunderer
I had another chat with Chris Arundell, UK agent for NFS, on 22 April 17.
He will soon be very expert at assembling these kits, because he's had orders for quite a lot of built-up ones.
I believe that the first batch of BR Brakevans was 50, and response has been so strong that a second batch of 100 is planned, and possibly underway. Chris mentioned that some modifications were being made, but couldn't tell me what.
Did Our Simon's dimensional corrections reach Roger Leigh before he started cutting? David
He will soon be very expert at assembling these kits, because he's had orders for quite a lot of built-up ones.
I believe that the first batch of BR Brakevans was 50, and response has been so strong that a second batch of 100 is planned, and possibly underway. Chris mentioned that some modifications were being made, but couldn't tell me what.
Did Our Simon's dimensional corrections reach Roger Leigh before he started cutting? David
David Halfpenny
Western Thunderer
Following chats with Chris Arundell, I've had a kind email from Roger Leigh, who has seen or heard about this thread. I asked his permission to post some or all of it here, and as that was a while ago and I haven't heard back, this is a paraphrase in my own words:
- Northern Finescale kits are designed to be reasonably priced and robust, both for carrying around and for running out of doors. Parts are made from styrene for consistent glueing (a weakness of multimedia kits). Hence some delicate parts are deliberately oversized, such as W irons and brackets.
- The kits were never intended as museum quality, though people are welcome to use them as scratch-aids.
- The second batch of brake vans will have the concrete ends modified, but that is all. They will have the 32mm diameter wheels. Additional modifications would affect the price unduly in such a small market.
- 98% of first-batch guards van purchasers (i.e. all but one, DH) are very pleased with it.
David
- Northern Finescale kits are designed to be reasonably priced and robust, both for carrying around and for running out of doors. Parts are made from styrene for consistent glueing (a weakness of multimedia kits). Hence some delicate parts are deliberately oversized, such as W irons and brackets.
- The kits were never intended as museum quality, though people are welcome to use them as scratch-aids.
- The second batch of brake vans will have the concrete ends modified, but that is all. They will have the 32mm diameter wheels. Additional modifications would affect the price unduly in such a small market.
- 98% of first-batch guards van purchasers (i.e. all but one, DH) are very pleased with it.
David
David Halfpenny
Western Thunderer
These are kits, lankytank - almost all of them will still be in their boxes 
Customer Complaints are the quickest and cheapest form of Marketing Research - but only as long as the customers actually complain.
Once the tooling investment has already been made, it's too late twice over:
- not only can the manufacturer not make improvements without starting from scratch and devaluing existing stocks,
- nobody else is going to duplicate that wagon properly.
Therefore we must aim to get in early in the process, with help for manufacturers at the design and pre-production prototyping stages.
David
So who knows the true satisfaction rate?
Customer Complaints are the quickest and cheapest form of Marketing Research - but only as long as the customers actually complain.
Once the tooling investment has already been made, it's too late twice over:
- not only can the manufacturer not make improvements without starting from scratch and devaluing existing stocks,
- nobody else is going to duplicate that wagon properly.
Therefore we must aim to get in early in the process, with help for manufacturers at the design and pre-production prototyping stages.
And that means staying friendly with people to whom we have an urge to give a good dose of Constructive Criticism.
David
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
As a bystander, it would be interesting to know what form the tooling might be in.
I get the impression, which may well be wrong, that the kit is CNC machined or perhaps laser cut. In either case the tooling investment is low; just the developer's time. If it involves hard tooling then I concede that costs will be somewhat higher.
Steph
I get the impression, which may well be wrong, that the kit is CNC machined or perhaps laser cut. In either case the tooling investment is low; just the developer's time. If it involves hard tooling then I concede that costs will be somewhat higher.
Steph
David Halfpenny
Western Thunderer
You're right Steph, the kit is largely CNC milled.
Even so, Roger feels that the cost of reprogramming is not cost effective given:
- the small number of kits,
- the fall in Sterling since pricing,
- only one customer in fifty is bothered.
Meanwhile, Chris's comment is that he and Roger are also rushed off their feet fulfilling demand, both for the kits and for a substantial number of ready-to-run orders, which would indicate that production is a higher priority than taking time out to reprogram.
Chris also believes that the enthusiastic demand for the brake van will encourage NFS to use 1:32 Scale for all future products.
David
Even so, Roger feels that the cost of reprogramming is not cost effective given:
- the small number of kits,
- the fall in Sterling since pricing,
- only one customer in fifty is bothered.
Meanwhile, Chris's comment is that he and Roger are also rushed off their feet fulfilling demand, both for the kits and for a substantial number of ready-to-run orders, which would indicate that production is a higher priority than taking time out to reprogram.
Chris also believes that the enthusiastic demand for the brake van will encourage NFS to use 1:32 Scale for all future products.
David
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
I have to admit that if the response from the kit producer is as you suggest, it would not be enough to distract me from my current scale of 7mm or 1:48. A full kit to scale dimensions might, as I could then see potential for a full train in 1:32 with items produced by other players.
Steph
Steph
Simon
Flying Squad
That's a bit disappointing really, I would have thought that a re-program of CNC cutting would have been an achievable improvement from Roger's point of view
It's great that future NFS models will be 1/32 scale, but hopefully basic dimensions and proportions will be got right on future products.
This brake van is actually quite a complicated set of shapes, I Wonder if Fred could do a really good representation in resin? His 5 plank is really coming on and I think he might be pondering another production
Simon
It's great that future NFS models will be 1/32 scale, but hopefully basic dimensions and proportions will be got right on future products.
This brake van is actually quite a complicated set of shapes, I Wonder if Fred could do a really good representation in resin? His 5 plank is really coming on and I think he might be pondering another production
Simon
Simon
Flying Squad
Well, future productions notwithstanding, I'm now considering mine finished and ready for paint. Latest work has been cobbling representations of the brakes together, in the end I used the shoes supplied in the kit but heavily cut about, re-shaped and with extra bits stuck on. I have also completed the safety rails on the verandah doorways, brake van spotters please note that I have modelled the "later" design that Dan kindly flagged up on my workbench thread about 5 years ago
And I finished off with a representation of the label clips. This doesn't have vacuum pipes fitted but will be in bauxite. Hmmm, perhaps they've been removed, perhaps I'll add some, but then it wouldn't be finished…..
Oh, and the keeps on the axle guards need fitting too
Southern plywood van in background next, I want to finish this before getting stuck in to Fred's BR vans.
Simon
And I finished off with a representation of the label clips. This doesn't have vacuum pipes fitted but will be in bauxite. Hmmm, perhaps they've been removed, perhaps I'll add some, but then it wouldn't be finished…..Oh, and the keeps on the axle guards need fitting too
Southern plywood van in background next, I want to finish this before getting stuck in to Fred's BR vans.
Simon
David Halfpenny
Western Thunderer
That's a lot of worthwhile work, Simon.
For anyone wishing to emulate, Chris sold the last of Batch 1 at The Fosse this month, Batch 2 is already committed to Ready to Run orders, and Batch 3 is expected in the UK maybe August.
Today I happened to speak to somebody who has finished one, modifying only where essential to secure a fit. He was pleased with how well it went together and, while acknowledging inaccuracies, is happy with it at a distance.
David
For anyone wishing to emulate, Chris sold the last of Batch 1 at The Fosse this month, Batch 2 is already committed to Ready to Run orders, and Batch 3 is expected in the UK maybe August.
Today I happened to speak to somebody who has finished one, modifying only where essential to secure a fit. He was pleased with how well it went together and, while acknowledging inaccuracies, is happy with it at a distance.
David
Simon
Flying Squad
As of last night the van has acquired its first basic paint job.
It's come off a bit gloss on the underframe which I will have to attend to and I intend to tone down the red oxide into shades of brown, but it makes a pleasing companion to its elder brass brother, in a similar paint finish.
Simon
It's come off a bit gloss on the underframe which I will have to attend to and I intend to tone down the red oxide into shades of brown, but it makes a pleasing companion to its elder brass brother, in a similar paint finish.
Simon
David Halfpenny
Western Thunderer
Here, for those still contemplating a purchase, is what £200 buys you from the current batch, in front of Simon's brakevan before the most recent details, above.
Even though improvements since Simon's early version - mainly the concrete platform weight - and despite all his struggles here recorded, Simon is gracious enough to say it's not bad for what it is - a deliberately all-styrene Ready to Run tail to any string of ready-to-run 1:32 scale wagons.
The most obvious difference is the body ironwork, and the most obvious question is, "How do they assemble and paint a kit, then add a lamp, for only £65?"
I hope you'll be seeing more of that green tablecloth over the next week or two . . .
Just harvesting pictures from other people.
David
Even though improvements since Simon's early version - mainly the concrete platform weight - and despite all his struggles here recorded, Simon is gracious enough to say it's not bad for what it is - a deliberately all-styrene Ready to Run tail to any string of ready-to-run 1:32 scale wagons.
The most obvious difference is the body ironwork, and the most obvious question is, "How do they assemble and paint a kit, then add a lamp, for only £65?"
I hope you'll be seeing more of that green tablecloth over the next week or two . . .
Just harvesting pictures from other people.
David
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Simon
Flying Squad
Just to bring this thread to a close, coincident with the news that Northern Finescale are considering making another batch of the kit, which they withdrew from sale over a year ago.
Here is the finished kit out on my garden line this afternoon.
I think I prefer it over the one built from an etch (pictured below) although quite which one is the more "accurate" I wouldn't like to say...
Here is the finished kit out on my garden line this afternoon.
I think I prefer it over the one built from an etch (pictured below) although quite which one is the more "accurate" I wouldn't like to say...
David Halfpenny
Western Thunderer
Lovely pictures of a smashing brake, Simon.
NFS make really quite small batches, using appropriate tech for quite small batches.
What a contrast to the Stock Item pictured immediately above
NFS make really quite small batches, using appropriate tech for quite small batches.
It seems to me that this approach is vindicated by how this has unfolded.
And if so, maybe we need more Small Batch tech to give Finescale products wings.
Hoping to show further examples at the public G1MRA Spring Meeting:And if so, maybe we need more Small Batch tech to give Finescale products wings.
13th April 2019 - Shepshed
Iveshead School, Forest Street, Shepshed. LE12 9DB 10.30am - 4pm
Iveshead School, Forest Street, Shepshed. LE12 9DB 10.30am - 4pm